Godzilla?

[balfanman]

What I mean is that, as a lead off hitter, playing CF, de Aza would not have to be a big run producer.

If he could get on base at anywhere near the rate at which he did vs RHP in AAA, and be a stolen base threat, that would be acceptable.

Even if he could come within 50 points of his .420 OBP, and post a .370 OBP vs RHP, wouldn't you be thrilled?

The Sox could always use Pierre vs. LHP, if de Aza struggled too badly in that role. Last year, Juan actually hit southpaws better than right handed pitchers.

 

De Aza is a better fielder than Pierre, although I must admit that Juan surprised many of us last season, with some pretty decent defense.

However, de Aza has a much better arm, and is a better outfielder, who has always been known for his defense. He's a true center fielder.

More importantly, he has extra base pop, which Juan does not possess.

I'm sure that you know Pierre had just 18 doubles in 734 PA's. Don't you agree that is just unbelievably awful for a guy with speed?

Add 3 triples and 1 homer, for a grand total of 22 xtra base hits in 734 PA's.

 

I don't know how you felt last season, but anytime he came up with men on base, I had no expectations of anything good happening.

With capable hitters like Beckham and Alexei at the bottom of the order, the Sox should have a more productive guy leading off, one who can drive them in, or at least advance them.

Pierre is very one dimensional. He can run. But remember, he's getting old, and at 34, could well slow down more than he has already.

 

I would love to have DeAza as a starting player in the Sox lineup next season and he definitely has major league tools. You have; however, missed one very important point. DeAza can't stay healthy! You can't count on someone who makes Carlos Quentin look like a poster boy for health to be a main contributor for a team that has championship aspirations.

[witesoxfan]

What is it about De Aza that people find so fascinating? His career .765 OPS in the minors? Timo Perez's career OPS is almost 100 points higher than that, but I didn't see anyone clamoring for him to start when he was with the Sox.

 

He'd make a good 4th outfielder, but I dread to see him anymore than that. He may make us miss Kotsay.

[Balta1701]

What is it about De Aza that people find so fascinating? His career .765 OPS in the minors? Timo Perez's career OPS is almost 100 points higher than that, but I didn't see anyone clamoring for him to start when he was with the Sox.

 

He'd make a good 4th outfielder, but I dread to see him anymore than that. He may make us miss Kotsay.

Considering that he put up 3 years of sub-.700 OPS in rookie ball and low A for his first 3 years after starting as an 18 year old, I'd say that career OPS is pretty impressive, because he managed to push it up quite a bit.

[witesoxfan]

Considering that he put up 3 years of sub-.700 OPS in rookie ball and low A for his first 3 years after starting as an 18 year old, I'd say that career OPS is pretty impressive, because he managed to push it up quite a bit.

 

Taking his total line in AAA - .301/.368/.470/.838, 665 PAs, 42 2B, 9 3B, 13 HR, 27/35 in SB, 56 BB, 113 K - how much of that added power is due to playing in good offensive leagues? I think it's safe to decrease his average, as I don't think he's a .300 hitter at the MLB level. I think it's also probably safe to marginally decrease his power, his walks, and increase his strikeouts (just percentage wise, probably not total).

 

Given approximately 600 plate appearances, it should be reasonable for him to put up something like

 

.278 BA

30 2B

7 3B

8 HR

45 BB

110 K

5 HBP

5 SF

 

right?

 

That turns out to be a .278/.336/.402/.738 line. It probably favors RHP, so, again, he has use to a major league club. But take a standard deviation to that - say +-.15/+-.20/+-.30/+-.50 - and that line could be as good as .293/.356/.432/.788, or as bad as .263/.316/.372/.688.

 

Unless he brings something exceptional to the table, such as defense [haven't heard anything great], speed [minors numbers suggest he can, but won't steal a ton], a bunting ability [i have no idea], or a huge RHP/LHP split [can't find anything conclusive right now], then there really is no point in starting De Aza. He's probably a 1 WAR...I don't know why people would be beckoning for that to be in the lineup, especially when the Sox have guys in all 3 spots that could be 2-3 times more valuable than De Aza himself. It's like people pleading for Lillibridge to be the everyday SS, when everybody knows that would be an absolutely terrible idea.

[Lillian]

Taking his total line in AAA - .301/.368/.470/.838, 665 PAs, 42 2B, 9 3B, 13 HR, 27/35 in SB, 56 BB, 113 K - how much of that added power is due to playing in good offensive leagues? I think it's safe to decrease his average, as I don't think he's a .300 hitter at the MLB level. I think it's also probably safe to marginally decrease his power, his walks, and increase his strikeouts (just percentage wise, probably not total).

 

Given approximately 600 plate appearances, it should be reasonable for him to put up something like

 

.278 BA

30 2B

7 3B

8 HR

45 BB

110 K

5 HBP

5 SF

 

right?

 

That turns out to be a .278/.336/.402/.738 line. It probably favors RHP, so, again, he has use to a major league club. But take a standard deviation to that - say +-.15/+-.20/+-.30/+-.50 - and that line could be as good as .293/.356/.432/.788, or as bad as .263/.316/.372/.688.

 

Unless he brings something exceptional to the table, such as defense [haven't heard anything great], speed [minors numbers suggest he can, but won't steal a ton], a bunting ability [i have no idea], or a huge RHP/LHP split [can't find anything conclusive right now], then there really is no point in starting De Aza. He's probably a 1 WAR...I don't know why people would be beckoning for that to be in the lineup, especially when the Sox have guys in all 3 spots that could be 2-3 times more valuable than De Aza himself. It's like people pleading for Lillibridge to be the everyday SS, when everybody knows that would be an absolutely terrible idea.

 

Right. This is all pretty reasonable. However, as you point out, his stats are much more favorable vs. RHP. He has demonstrated an ability to hit really well vs RHP, especially for a centerfielder. The other thing is that he can also be a run producer, not simply a lead off guy.

I'm not suggesting that he bat anywhere other than lead off or 9th, but as some of us have said, at least when he comes up with guys on, he has the ability to drive the ball somewhere, unlike Pierre.

 

[witesoxfan]

Right. This is all pretty reasonable. However, as you point out, his stats are much more favorable vs. RHP. He has demonstrated an ability to hit really well vs RHP, especially for a centerfielder. The other thing is that he can also be a run producer, not simply a lead off guy.

I'm not suggesting that he bat anywhere other than lead off or 9th, but as some of us have said, at least when he comes up with guys on, he has the ability to drive the ball somewhere, unlike Pierre.

 

I highly doubt he defends as well as Pierre, and I also doubt that he has the bat control of Pierre. If it were up to me, I would prefer to get rid of both of them, but as of right now, Pierre is the more valuable player.

[Lillian]

I highly doubt he defends as well as Pierre, and I also doubt that he has the bat control of Pierre. If it were up to me, I would prefer to get rid of both of them, but as of right now, Pierre is the more valuable player.

 

Here I would respectfully disagree with you. De Aza is a much better outfielder than Pierre. He has equal speed, and a much better arm.

He gets good reads and jumps, and takes good routes to the ball. He is a true center fielder, unlike Pierre, whom I'm sure neither of us would want to see anywhere but Left.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Lillian

[balfanman]

Here I would respectfully disagree with you. De Aza is a much better outfielder than Pierre. He has equal speed, a better glove, and a much stronger arm. He gets good reads and jumps, and takes good routes to the ball. He is a true center fielder, unlike Pierre, whom I'm sure neither of us would want to see anywhere but Left.

 

But Juan Pierre is extremely durable while DeAza has not proven that he can stay off the disabled list for any period of time. All else equal, this makes Pierre much more valuable.

[Balta1701]

But Juan Pierre is extremely durable while DeAza has not proven that he can stay off the disabled list for any period of time. All else equal, this makes Pierre much more valuable.

However, Pierre is getting paid $5 million+ by the Sox this year, whereas De Aza is not. THat's how that comes up.

[balfanman]

However, Pierre is getting paid $5 million+ by the Sox this year, whereas De Aza is not. THat's how that comes up.

 

I agree that DeAza is the better overall player, but how much they make is really irrelavant if they can't stay on the field.

[Balta1701]

I agree that DeAza is the better overall player, but how much they make is really irrelavant if they can't stay on the field.

I'm not sure De Aza is the better player, just adding to the discussion here.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Date: 11/22/10

 

Time: 1:55 PM

 

And there are actual living humans advocating Alejandro De Aza start for a major league team. I'm starting to think 2012 will indeed be the end.

[Balta1701]

And there are actual living humans advocating Alejandro De Aza start for a major league team. I'm starting to think 2012 will indeed be the end.

De Aza was the opening day starter for the Marlins a couple years ago.

[Jordan4life_2007]

De Aza was the opening day starter for the Marlins a couple years ago.

 

Whoopi Goldberg once had sex. That doesn't mean I'm gonna touch her.

[southsider2k5]

Whoopi Goldberg once had sex. That doesn't mean I'm gonna touch her.

 

You should be banned just for the visual that came with that post.

[ScottyDo]

Whoopi Goldberg once had sex. That doesn't mean I'm gonna touch her.

Pictures or it didn't happen