OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[StrangeSox]

I really dont want to get into this argument, but the "people will die" argument is a losing argument so perhaps people need to reframe the argument. Because right now, most people are going to end up paying more money for less healthcare. Only the top insurance plans will likely see decreases.

 

Medicaid is gutted by this bill. People with pre-existing conditions face premiums as high as six figures a year. Lifetime caps return.

 

Those things will all kill people. If you want to say it's not the best political argument to make, okay, but that is what this bill will do to thousands of Americans.

Edited May 4, 2017 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan is one of those who does not comprehend how insurance works.

 

Not sure that says much, Paul Ryan doesnt have the qualifications to be my secretary.

[LittleHurt05]

Not sure that says much, Paul Ryan doesnt have the qualifications to be my secretary.

 

Ouch.

 

Hey Rock, are you gonna let him talk s*** about Miami like that?

[StrangeSox]

How are people dying from this?

 

My best friend was born to a drug addict and had a hole in his heart at birth. He had to get open heart surgery upon birth. He was adopted by parents who were in their 50's when he was a baby. His father, an immigrant painter, fell off a ladder and hit disability very early and is pushing 80 and his mom cares for herself and him with a less than ideal salary.

 

So my friend has been taking care of himself since he was 18 and has been on Obamacare for a while. Every once in a while, he'll have his heart rate sky rocket or crash or I'll look at him and his face will have turned white (he's black). He goes to the hospital what seems like every few months. He'll rack up a bill for 5-15 thousand for a one-two day stay that he can in no way afford. His mom will write a letter to the hospital explaining his situation and they'll write off the account and his debt within a week of receiving the letter. In business we call that "bad debt expense." Hospitals aren't turning dying people away because the current administration doesn't believe healthcare is a born right. Meanwhile, my friend has to go to a specialist to figure out what he can do about his heart condition but none of the specialists are covered by Obamacare. So the cycle repeats...

 

This is from 2009, so it's based on a system that's markedly worse than Obamacare but somehow better than the AHCA.

 

New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage

 

republicans just voted to kill tens of thousands of Americans a year in order to pass tax cuts for the wealthy, and they're celebrating it.

[RockRaines]

How are people dying from this?

 

My best friend was born to a drug addict and had a hole in his heart at birth. He had to get open heart surgery upon birth. He was adopted by parents who were in their 50's when he was a baby. His father, an immigrant painter, fell off a ladder and hit disability very early and is pushing 80 and his mom cares for herself and him with a less than ideal salary.

 

So my friend has been taking care of himself since he was 18 and has been on Obamacare for a while. Every once in a while, he'll have his heart rate sky rocket or crash or I'll look at him and his face will have turned white (he's black). He goes to the hospital what seems like every few months. He'll rack up a bill for 5-15 thousand for a one-two day stay that he can in no way afford. His mom will write a letter to the hospital explaining his situation and they'll write off the account and his debt within a week of receiving the letter. In business we call that "bad debt expense." Hospitals aren't turning dying people away because the current administration doesn't believe healthcare is a born right. Meanwhile, my friend has to go to a specialist to figure out what he can do about his heart condition but none of the specialists are covered by Obamacare. So the cycle repeats...

So you're telling me that millions of people who wont have coverage can just write a letter to the hospital and they will forgive all debts? s*** why do we even HAVE insurance?

[Soxbadger]

Ouch.

 

Hey Rock, are you gonna let him talk s*** about Miami like that?

 

 

I was going to say something about "no offense Rock", but I more meant Weinermobile driver doesnt push the needle.

[RockRaines]

Ouch.

 

Hey Rock, are you gonna let him talk s*** about Miami like that?

Yes. f*** Paul Ryan

[Soxbadger]

So you're telling me that millions of people who wont have coverage can just write a letter to the hospital and they will forgive all debts? s*** why do we even HAVE insurance?

 

 

Haha cause youre a sucker and not poor enough.

 

Insurance is worthless for the really poor. If youre wealthy, you likely have good insurance. The people who are going to get decimated are the lower middle class.

[RockRaines]

Haha cause youre a sucker and not poor enough.

 

Insurance is worthless for the really poor. If youre wealthy, you likely have good insurance. The people who are going to get decimated are the lower middle class.

Northwestern Hospital chased me down for 25 bucks I shorted them a few years ago. They were relentless. I guess I should have written a letter.

[bmags]

Health care coverage is a fairly inefficient way to save lives but it is very important financial protection (that is the point of insurance).

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Northwestern Hospital chased me down for 25 bucks I shorted them a few years ago. They were relentless. I guess I should have written a letter.

 

Again, you have money. You care about things like your credit score, etc.

 

That being said, always right a letter. Its ridiculous the amount of things Ive gotten reduced/wiped out just because I do some good old fashioned phone yelling.

[StrangeSox]

Again, you have money. You care about things like your credit score, etc.

 

That being said, always right a letter. Its ridiculous the amount of things Ive gotten reduced/wiped out just because I do some good old fashioned phone yelling.

 

Lots of jobs, even low-wage hourly ones, run credit checks before hiring now. Lots of people need to be concerned about their credit scores.

 

And there's still chronic diseases and long-term treatment that need to be considered. The medication on was on for several years rang up at nearly $800 a month from the pharmacy but was a $10 co-pay for me. I can't just stiff Walgreens on the bill if I don't have insurance. My wife's uncle had respiratory issues that went untreated for a couple of years before he could get on to Medicaid because he couldn't afford medication (albuterol inhalers, which used to be cheap-o generics but saw a gigantic price hike when the propellants were changed and re-patented).

Edited May 4, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

I don't understand. I thought you buy insurance or get it through your employer so in the case something went wrong you're covered. My cousins condo burnt down. I wonder if he can get home insurance now that it's rubble.

 

People want affordable health care access. That we call it insurance is incidental.

 

Lots of people develop pre-existing conditions or are born with them through no fault of their own. Why should someone born with diabetes not ever be able to buy health insurance in the future? That was the pre-ACA world for many people.

[Soxbadger]

I don't understand. I thought you buy insurance or get it through your employer so in the case something went wrong you're covered. My cousins condo burnt down. I wonder if he can get home insurance now that it's rubble.

 

Absolutely can get insurance. It wont cover what already happened.

 

The difference is that with health you are talking about things you were born with, so that person never had the opportunity to purchase insurance prior to the "pre-existing" event. Or as the current bill stands, I believe "rape" is a pre-existing condition too.

 

 

[RockRaines]

It seems you're looking at this from the lens of a 1%-er. You have to put yourself in others' shoes sometimes. Not everyone can laugh about outstanding hospital debts.

Not everyone can get debts written off of their account and their record by writing a letter. Some have to pay, or find a way to pay, or have their credit destroyed and never be able to get basic services because they have nothing to show for it.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I don't understand. I thought you buy insurance or get it through your employer so in the case something went wrong you're covered. My cousins condo burnt down. I wonder if he can get home insurance now that it's rubble.

 

- Health insurance is far more necessary than home insurance (you can rent).

- Health insurance is far more expensive than home insurance.

- Health insurance is used very often. Home insurance is invoked very rarely.

- No one is born with a burnt down home.

- If you have a home insurance lapse and something bad happens, you take a big hit, but you can recover. If you have a health insurance lapse and become a person with a pre-existing condition, you could be f***ed indefinitely because no one wants to insure you at all.

- People dying due to lack of healthcare is a major ethical issue for a society. People not owning insured homes is not so much.

[RockRaines]

I am well aware of that. I was responding to the idea that millions are going to drop dead and hospitals are going to turn them away as they have their last breaths because the government isn't providing an optional service to everyone. This is a spectrum issue. My mom was as ICU/ER nurse for twenty years on the South Side of Chicago. If someone is dying or overdosing the nurses deal with the individual. They don't let them die because they don't have insurance or they're homeless or they're a criminal or anything. They do their job and let the hospital deals with the rest later.

You realize that doctors dont just exist in emergency rooms right? Not being able to see anyone to make your life better in between disasters leads to a higher mortality rate and a shorter and less comfortable lifespan. Not to mention the possible loss of things like financial stability, housing, employment etc. If you cant pay for something like a CPAP system, you arent going to live as long. They arent going to save you for free at a hospital if you are already dead.

[StrangeSox]

I am well aware of that. I was responding to the idea that millions are going to drop dead and hospitals are going to turn them away as they have their last breaths because the government isn't providing an optional service to everyone. This is a spectrum issue. My mom was as ICU/ER nurse for twenty years on the South Side of Chicago. If someone is dying or overdosing the nurses deal with the individual. They don't let them die because they don't have insurance or they're homeless or they're a criminal or anything. They do their job and let the hospital deals with the rest later.

 

I linked you to a 2009 study that estimated 45,000 people died due to lack of health care access in the country. People are given emergency stabilizing care at ER's, but that does not account for chronic conditions or conditions that would have been treatable/preventable but deteriorate before emergency care can be administered.

Edited May 4, 2017 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

I am well aware of that. I was responding to the idea that millions are going to drop dead and hospitals are going to turn them away as they have their last breaths because the government isn't providing an optional service to everyone. This is a spectrum issue. My mom was as ICU/ER nurse for twenty years on the South Side of Chicago. If someone is dying or overdosing the nurses deal with the individual. They don't let them die because they don't have insurance or they're homeless or they're a criminal or anything. They do their job and let the hospital deals with the rest later.

 

I doubt the Senate passes this bill, but if they do, what you said is the exact reason why premiums/deductibles will increase for most people. Thankfully I wont have to worry about the Cadillac tax anymore.

[RockRaines]

I doubt the Senate passes this bill, but if they do, what you said is the exact reason why premiums/deductibles will increase for most people. Thankfully I wont have to worry about the Cadillac tax anymore.

I think they will pass it. And a lot of the people who are rejoicing today are going to realize it hurts them. Unfortunately for them, its too late. They will then look at the tax reform coming up and will hope maybe saving money will help, and then they will realize that also doesnt help them.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

[Dick Allen]

I linked you to a 2009 study that estimated 45,000 people died due to lack of health care access in the country. People are given emergency stabilizing care at ER's, but that does not account for chronic conditions or conditions that would have been treatable/preventable but deteriorate before emergency care can be administered.

They have videos of a hospital in LA,CA taking uninsured and dropping them off close to other hospitals.

 

But Trump promised better care, cheaper premiums, and everyone insured. Hold him to it.

[RockRaines]

They have videos of a hospital in LA,CA taking uninsured and dropping them off close to other hospitals.

 

But Trump promised better care, cheaper premiums, and everyone insured. Hold him to it.

He hasnt been held to a single lie he spouted during his campaign. I doubt anyone will to this one either.

[StrangeSox]

Isn't the conservative estimate a 25% increase Obamacare this year? The year Pres. Obama leaves? So you don't like high deductibles but you're for Obamacare?

 

That was the average for ACA exchange plans for 2017 plans, yeah.

 

The ACA wasn't perfect. Far from it. This bill is not only worse than the ACA, it's worse than the already broken system we had before the ACA.

[Dick Allen]

Amazing how a government mandated system can increase premiums 25% (maybe more) year-over-year and the takeaway is that it isn't "perfect." s***, I'll say so. If only there was another option for the people on Obamacare that you're so concerned about. Until then their money is hostage to the government that is supposedly saving millions of lives by forcing s***ty, increasingly more cost prohibitive coverage on people.

How was health insurance rising before Obamacare? And when you get millions off the insurance, do you think they will stop getting sick? If, like you say, they will never be turned away, who pays?