Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) Lol. AT least you're able to give us a good, detailed discussion of women's health care issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) And you're saying that employees must abide by the religious beliefs of their employer. That seems like a pretty f***ed up world too. And the employee is free to work somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 09:39 PM) And the employee is free to work somewhere else. The owners are free to found a church rather than running a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Cargill has a long, rich heritage, starting with W. W. Cargill's first grain storage facility on the American frontier in 1865. The company has grown to become one of the largest, privately-owned businesses, providing food, agricultural, risk management, financial, and industrial products and services around the globe. [ As a privately held company, Koch Industries, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 08:39 PM) And the employee is free to work somewhere else. I'm glad you oppose right to work laws. They can just find a job somewhere else if they don't to pay union dues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 09:29 PM) I'm glad you oppose right to work laws. They can just find a job somewhere else if they don't to pay union dues. :notworthy :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 02:14 AM) Why do Hobby Lobby's employees have to give up their freedom of religion due to the beliefs of their management? Where is your respect for the actual people who work there? Why are their religious beliefs unimportant to you? What are you talking about? The people can still get their abortions. Unfortunately for them this particular employer doesn't want to pay for the four contraceptives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 12:37 AM) What are you talking about? The people can still get their abortions. Unfortunately for them this particular employer doesn't want to pay for the four contraceptives. 1) These contraceptives don't cause abortions. 2) They were otherwise legally entitled to having their employer pay for part of an insurance plan wherein the insurance company covered contraceptives as part of their compensation. It is unfortunate for them that their employers can get out of their legal obligations because of their religious beliefs. 3) The SC has already expanded their ruling to include objections to any and all contraceptives, not just those that some people incorrectly assert cause abortions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Should RFRA only apply to religious beliefs? What if I held the same sort of views on abortion on these particular contraceptives, but did so for secular moral reasons? Do I not get any RFRA protections? Wouldn't that then favor religion over nonreligion and run afoul of the Establishment Clause? http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-...constitutional/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 01:37 AM) What are you talking about? The people can still get their abortions. Unfortunately for them this particular employer doesn't want to pay for the four contraceptives. Now you're just lying. It's been pointed out to you that Hobby Lobby is not paying for abortions yet you refuse to listen. You said earlier you were getting offended, you deserve to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 08:27 PM) AT least you're able to give us a good, detailed discussion of women's health care issues. I just find it hilarious that you're blaming the company for causing "pain," like there aren't alternatives out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 07:24 AM) Should RFRA only apply to religious beliefs? What if I held the same sort of views on abortion on these particular contraceptives, but did so for secular moral reasons? Do I not get any RFRA protections? Wouldn't that then favor religion over nonreligion and run afoul of the Establishment Clause? http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-...constitutional/ Using that logic the Court should be striking down affirmative action laws/practices and gender specific laws/practices because white males aren't being treated equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 06:21 PM) Someone also needs to point this out since no one seems to care about this either. So please, tell me again why Hobby Lobby should be able to inflict additional pain upon their workforce. That is complete bulls*** but we can go with it. Probably a lot of bias in the answers. They might stay on it for some of those reasons when they are married but they didn't go onto it for those reasons. Total load of s***. Common sense tells you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 10:37 PM) What are you talking about? The people can still get their abortions. Unfortunately for them this particular employer doesn't want to pay for the four contraceptives. How about Hobby Lobby just stops providing insurance and lets everyone pay on Obama par (and pay whatever taxes they need to pay towards that cause). Would that be a better result for the employees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2014 -> 06:14 PM) Why do Hobby Lobby's employees have to give up their freedom of religion due to the beliefs of their management? Where is your respect for the actual people who work there? Why are their religious beliefs unimportant to you? No one is saying they do. They can go pay for them themselves or use planned parenthood or sign up for their own health care plan. No one is forcing you to use the Companies plan, which comes at a COST to the Company. They could just pull it and pay whatever fees and let employees use Obamacare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) That is complete bulls*** but we can go with it. Probably a lot of bias in the answers. They might stay on it for some of those reasons when they are married but they didn't go onto it for those reasons. Total load of s***. Common sense tells you that. You're crazy if you don't think women use it for those reasons just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The real issue is that it is the govt picking and choosing what religions to protect. Which should be a major concern to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) That is complete bulls*** but we can go with it. Probably a lot of bias in the answers. They might stay on it for some of those reasons when they are married but they didn't go onto it for those reasons. Total load of s***. Common sense tells you that. My wife actually used them to treat one of those conditions. She got sick enough that she couldn't continue working due to the number of days she was missing, wound up both unemployed and losing her insurance, at which point she lost that treatment. The condition was described as "having her insides strangled". 4 years later I finally had good enough insurance to cover a family and we got her covered again and she wound up having surgery last year. So yeah, there is a post here that is complete bulls*** but it isn't mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Look Balta, its okay for someone to stop you from getting medical treatment because their religion says its bad. I am sure that no one in this thread would have a problem if a company owned by Jehova's Witnesses refused to pay for any procedure that involved blood transfusions. Completely reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Likewise, some of the stuff being taken away isn't inexpensive. People that can't handle normal birth control due to side effects often need IUDs, which are a four-figure cost when factoring in the "labor" cost of getting them put in. Someone I know was lucky enough to find a "last resort" charity that covers the cost of things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) Look Balta, its okay for someone to stop you from getting medical treatment because their religion says its bad. I am sure that no one in this thread would have a problem if a company owned by Jehova's Witnesses refused to pay for any procedure that involved blood transfusions. Completely reasonable. Completely inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 01:25 PM) Likewise, some of the stuff being taken away isn't inexpensive. People that can't handle normal birth control due to side effects often need IUDs, which are a four-figure cost when factoring in the "labor" cost of getting them put in. Someone I know was lucky enough to find a "last resort" charity that covers the cost of things like this. Funny: http://plannedparenthood.tumblr.com/post/2...oes-an-iud-cost The IUD is the most inexpensive long-term and reversible form of birth control you can get. Unlike other forms of birth control, the IUD only costs money in the beginning. The cost for the medical exam, the IUD, the insertion of the IUD and follow-up visits to your health care provider can range from $500 to $900. That cost pays for protection that can last more than a decade. Planned Parenthood works to make health care accessible and affordable. Some health centers are able to charge according to income. Most accept health insurance. If you qualify, Medicaid or other state programs may significantly lower the cost of getting an IUD. Contact your local health center to get more information. I'm sorry, you guys are really grasping at straws here to make this a much bigger deal than it is. Edited July 2, 2014 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) I'm sorry, you guys are really grasping at straws here to make this a much bigger deal than it is. That is an accurate description of the owners of Hobby Lobby's complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) Completely inaccurate. Really so if a Dr prescribes me 1 of the 4 birth control that hobby lobby objects to, hobby lobby has to pay for it? Its all fun and games when your religion is the one that is preferred. (edit) No its alarming that the govt would give a thumbs up to any religion. Edited July 2, 2014 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) Now you're just lying. It's been pointed out to you that Hobby Lobby is not paying for abortions yet you refuse to listen. You said earlier you were getting offended, you deserve to be. Typical. Nobody cares if they offend people over religious issues. Thanks for the confirmation. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 2, 2014 -> 03:12 PM) I just find it hilarious that you're blaming the company for causing "pain," like there aren't alternatives out there. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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