OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[greg775]

Ok, I'm going to push this point a bit. What policies of Sanders do you like? What policies of the Republicans do you like?

 

It's absolutely possible to be an independent. You don't have to be married to one of the parties or the other. But responsible voters should know what they are voting for!

I was in favor of his free college education for all. College kids debt sucks especially when so many degrees assure nothing in the workplace. Tax wall street for free college was brilliant idea.

I was in favor of raising the minimum wage.

He basically was at war with the 1 percenters. I like that. He wanted marijuana legalized. I like that.

He didn't like the way campaigns were funded.

I like his theories on health care.

And yes superfically I did "feel the bern." Hey not everybody is an issues person. You can "feel it" as well.

 

As far as Republicans I've always liked the way they handle foreign policy and the economy. And I feel Reagan is god, small g.

 

p.s. Jimmy Carter today says he voted for Bernie Sanders. Maybe greg wasn't so wrong. Hmmmmm.

Edited May 10, 2017 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Single payer health care, Medicare for all.

 

Less US intervention in foreign policy or general disinterest in being global policeman, more like Trump's original position.

 

Support for labor/middle class vs. corporations. Against TPP and NAFTA.

 

Free or highly subsidized universal college tuition.

 

Breaking up big Wall Street banks, separation from investment and commercial banks, stronger regulations, etc.

[StrangeSox]

I was in favor of his free college education for all. College kids debt sucks especially when so many degrees assure nothing in the workplace. Tax wall street for free college was brilliant idea.

I was in favor of raising the minimum wage.

He basically was at war with the 1 percenters. I like that. He wanted marijuana legalized. I like that.

He didn't like the way campaigns were funded.

I like his theories on health care.

And yes superfically I did "feel the bern." Hey not everybody is an issues person. You can "feel it" as well.

 

 

 

As far as Republicans I've always liked the way they handle foreign policy and the economy.

 

 

And I feel Reagan is god, small g.

 

 

Greg, these things taken together do not form any sort of coherent ideology. You like all of the extremely-not-Republican things Bernie proposed on the economy, but you like the way Republicans handle the economy? And you venerate Reagan, who is basically the icon of everything anti-Bernie?

[caulfield12]

I was in favor of his free college education for all. College kids debt sucks especially when so many degrees assure nothing in the workplace. Tax wall street for free college was brilliant idea.

I was in favor of raising the minimum wage.

He basically was at war with the 1 percenters. I like that. He wanted marijuana legalized. I like that.

He didn't like the way campaigns were funded.

I like his theories on health care.

And yes superfically I did "feel the bern." Hey not everybody is an issues person. You can "feel it" as well.

 

As far as Republicans I've always liked the way they handle foreign policy and the economy. And I feel Reagan is god, small g.

 

p.s. Jimmy Carter today says he voted for Bernie Sanders. Maybe greg wasn't so wrong. Hmmmmm.

 

You're 60-75% Democrat. Please note how well the stock market did under Clinton and Obama vs. the Bushes. Nobody in America would ever be able to retire on gains during Republican administrations. And supply side economics....cutting taxes for the rich and corporations, has never worked anywhere. Reagan tried to destroy labor unions, a movement that certainly continues today in Republican orthodoxy.

 

Bernie's diametrically opposed to GOP on most tax and trade policies. Unless you're agreeing with Trump in NAFTA and TPP, but then Trump's not really a Republican anymore than you are. 98% of the GOP disagrees on Trump's trade policy.

Edited May 10, 2017 by caulfield12

[greg775]

 

 

 

 

 

Greg, these things taken together do not form any sort of coherent ideology. You like all of the extremely-not-Republican things Bernie proposed on the economy, but you like the way Republicans handle the economy? And you venerate Reagan, who is basically the icon of everything anti-Bernie?

Yes. The political world today is complicated. So there are Republicans (me) and Democrats (almost all of this board). So we have an election in which individuals have been chosen by the parties. Ideology is fine, but these are real people running.

You've got Hillary (I cross her off immediately) and Bernie in the primary. I want Bernie and he loses.

You've got Trump on the other side (I cross him off immediately). I want Kasich and he loses.

Now you've got Hillary vs. Trump. I can't live with myself voting for either. So toss ideology out the door. These are 2 rotten, historically bad choices. What's a person to do?

[Kyyle23]

Also greg, there is not a debate board tally anywhere here. People aren't like "oh greg posted, let's just beat him up and get points". You post things, tell us you barely pay attention to politics except for Rush, then get surprised when people come back at you and ask you to explain yourself. People patiently explain their points to you and try and have debates with you and you come back with bulls*** third person replies like "well people agree with greg"

[greg775]

Also greg, there is not a debate board tally anywhere here. People aren't like "oh greg posted, let's just beat him up and get points". You post things, tell us you barely pay attention to politics except for Rush, then get surprised when people come back at you and ask you to explain yourself. People patiently explain their points to you and try and have debates with you and you come back with bulls*** third person replies like "well people agree with greg"

More generalizing here. Not true.

[Rowand44]

More generalizing here. Not true.

I very rarely post in these threads but do read them quite often and it's absolutely true.

[Quin]

Has Greg ever heard of Hillarycare?

[Iwritecode]

Also greg, there is not a debate board tally anywhere here. People aren't like "oh greg posted, let's just beat him up and get points". You post things, tell us you barely pay attention to politics except for Rush, then get surprised when people come back at you and ask you to explain yourself. People patiently explain their points to you and try and have debates with you and you come back with bulls*** third person replies like "well people agree with greg"

 

 

More generalizing here. Not true.

 

You literally just did it 10 minutes prior:

 

p.s. Jimmy Carter today says he voted for Bernie Sanders. Maybe greg wasn't so wrong. Hmmmmm.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Iwritecode

[illinilaw08]

I was in favor of his free college education for all. College kids debt sucks especially when so many degrees assure nothing in the workplace. Tax wall street for free college was brilliant idea.

I was in favor of raising the minimum wage.

He basically was at war with the 1 percenters. I like that. He wanted marijuana legalized. I like that.

He didn't like the way campaigns were funded.

I like his theories on health care.

And yes superfically I did "feel the bern." Hey not everybody is an issues person. You can "feel it" as well.

 

As far as Republicans I've always liked the way they handle foreign policy and the economy. And I feel Reagan is god, small g.

 

p.s. Jimmy Carter today says he voted for Bernie Sanders. Maybe greg wasn't so wrong. Hmmmmm.

 

Ok, so this is interesting. That you for elaborating.

 

But I am confused about the economy part of things. I'm simplifying here, but Republicans think that higher taxes on the wealthy is bad for the economy. So that means that, to a Republican, taxing Wall Street to give free college to everybody would be bad for the economy. So to would any "war with the 1 percenters." Republicans think that lower taxes on the rich creates more jobs.

 

On the minimum wage, Republicans think that increasing the minimum wage is harmful to businesses.

 

So, a number of the policies that you liked about Sanders would horrify a rank and file Republican on the economy.

 

But, I challenge you Greg, if you care about those issues, then you need to look into your Representatives' policies on this stuff. The President is obviously important, but they don't make laws. That's Congress. Figure out whether your Congressman and Senators actually supports the positions that mean the most to you, and vote for the ones that align with your values. Don't vote based on "feel." There are a lot of people out there who I like getting a beer with. And most of those people would be absolutely terrible at enacting legislation and advancing policy.

[greg775]

So, a number of the policies that you liked about Sanders would horrify a rank and file Republican on the economy.

 

But, I challenge you Greg, if you care about those issues, then you need to look into your Representatives' policies on this stuff. The President is obviously important, but they don't make laws. That's Congress. Figure out whether your Congressman and Senators actually supports the positions that mean the most to you, and vote for the ones that align with your values. Don't vote based on "feel." There are a lot of people out there who I like getting a beer with. And most of those people would be absolutely terrible at enacting legislation and advancing policy.

First point: Well, yes, but do Democrats agree on all issues with certain Democratic candidates?

Your second graph is well taken. Good points.

[illinilaw08]

First point: Well, yes, but do Democrats agree on all issues with certain Democratic candidates?

Your second graph is well taken. Good points.

 

That was more in reaction to the fact that you identify as a Republican voter on the economy, but actually support the Democrats' policies on the economy.

 

 

[greg775]

That was more in reaction to the fact that you identify as a Republican voter on the economy, but actually support the Democrats' policies on the economy.

I guess today's discussion proves I'm not a Republican. I guess I need to start calling myself an Independent. Frankly I haven't done that or considered that mainly because of this board. I think most considered me Republican. I guess I'm an Independent.

[Balta1701]

I guess today's discussion proves I'm not a Republican. I guess I need to start calling myself an Independent. Frankly I haven't done that or considered that mainly because of this board. I think most considered me Republican. I guess I'm an Independent.

Next step; if you've voted for any Republicans at the level of the national House/Senate, you also have voted in favor of this bill.

[caulfield12]

Perhaps the other reason you label yourself Republican is for longstanding moral/religious reasons (going back to the culture wars of the 80's and 90's).

 

We can also argue which side the Catholic Church is on, depends where you grow up. In Boston or NYC, you're definitely a Democrat.

[greg775]

Next step; if you've voted for any Republicans at the level of the national House/Senate, you also have voted in favor of this bill.

Brownback is a dope.

 

Perhaps the other reason you label yourself Republican is for longstanding moral/religious reasons (going back to the culture wars of the 80's and 90's).

 

We can also argue which side the Catholic Church is on, depends where you grow up. In Boston or NYC, you're definitely a Democrat.

I am an Independent.

[caulfield12]

What Balta is saying, basically:

 

Did you vote for Moran or Roberts?

 

Your member of the House, not sure where you live in KS, would either be Yoder (KC/Johnson Cty) or Jenkins (closer to Topeka). Did you vote for either of them?

 

 

[Middle Buffalo]

I'd love to know who Greg voted for President.

 

I'll say this about Greg - he may be infuriating with his lack of consistency politically, but at least he's a respectful poster. Some people in this thread would do well to emulate his overall demeanor.

[caulfield12]

Greg didn't vote for Trump or Clinton.

 

Write-in candidate.

[greg775]

What Balta is saying, basically:

 

Did you vote for Moran or Roberts?

 

Your member of the House, not sure where you live in KS, would either be Yoder (KC/Johnson Cty) or Jenkins (closer to Topeka). Did you vote for either of them?

I have to be honest and say I didn't vote for either. I abstained.

 

I'd love to know who Greg voted for President.

 

I'll say this about Greg - he may be infuriating with his lack of consistency politically, but at least he's a respectful poster. Some people in this thread would do well to emulate his overall demeanor.

Thank you.

 

Greg didn't vote for Trump or Clinton. I had to write somebody in cause I didn't like either candidate.

 

Write-in candidate.

yes sir.

[brett05]

You're 60-75% Democrat. Please note how well the stock market did under Clinton and Obama vs. the Bushes. Nobody in America would ever be able to retire on gains during Republican administrations. And supply side economics....cutting taxes for the rich and corporations, has never worked anywhere. Reagan tried to destroy labor unions, a movement that certainly continues today in Republican orthodoxy.

 

Bernie's diametrically opposed to GOP on most tax and trade policies. Unless you're agreeing with Trump in NAFTA and TPP, but then Trump's not really a Republican anymore than you are. 98% of the GOP disagrees on Trump's trade policy.

Tons of money was made by all fiscal classes of Americans during the Reagan years.

[Dick Allen]

Tons of money was made by all fiscal classes of Americans during the Reagan years.

If the Reagan years were bliss, what does that say about the Clinton and Obama years? Obama outperformed him, Clinton more than doubled him.

 

You go back over 35 years, the market performs a lot better under democrats. Trump likes to brag about what he is doing vs. Obama. For him to do what Obama did, the Dow is going to have to hit 50,000 under his watch. His failing presidency will never get there. He will be worse than the guy he called the worst president of all time, and an evil and bad guy. Sad.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

 

 

Poll: Just 21 percent approve of House’s Obamacare repeal bill

 

Good thing the House and the President didn't decide to hold a big celebration at the White House and truck in a bunch of beer in honor of this extremely unpopular bill passing one house of Congress.

[caulfield12]

Only 14/217 of those voting for AHCA dared to hold town halls this week. Truly surprising.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-lawma...-133728733.html