OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[StrangeSox]

Here's a republican senator straight up lying about what this bill does. He claims it keeps the Medicaid expansion in place. It not only passed out the Medicaid expansion, kicking over ten million back off of health insurance, it also substantially cuts the pre-expansion Medicaid program.

 

https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/879000887171088385

[Reddy]

StrangeSox stop with the divisive rhetoric

[Kyyle23]

It's not about civility. It's about coming up with agreements (not just on healthcare) that works for everyone. No policy set to one extreme liberal or conservative will be the best for everyone. Extremes on either side are rarely good.

 

Of course this one is about cut, cut ,cut. The last one was far too expensive and really didn't work very well. So because there was no way any of the politicians were going to compromise it had to swing way to the other extreme.

 

this probably isn't going to work very well either. but again when people aren't willing to work together, this is what you are going to get. And I mean the willingness to work together on both sides.

 

conservative are as guilty on this as liberals. It just atmosphere of politics today.

 

I mean, the Republicans drafted this bill in secrecy with Lobbyists, not democrats, and they are about to ram it through by any means possible. Hard to point fingers about agreements when that is happening

[ptatc]

To say that it wasn't working well is pushing it, when 75-80% were better off and maybe 20-25% were worse off.

 

Trump admin actively tried to kill it, pulled publicity about sign ups this year...look at insurance industry quotes, invariablybthe uncertainty caused by threatening to not make required payments has "forced" them to withdraw from markets. They know they can use that leverage to improve their position (collectively）with this new repeal bill. Paying both sides against each other, but premiums and markets were actually stabilizing until just the last year or so. Growing costs slower than before, but still high than inflation.

It was continually declining though. More and more insurance companies were dropping out and some even folded due to the funding issues. This was all prior to Trump being elected so you can't blame everything on him.

[ptatc]

That is just the most intellectually lazy "both sides" nonsense.

 

Republicans don't care about helping people with health care. Full stop. It has never been and never will be a policy priority for them. This bill isn't intended to help fix anything regarding healthcare. Saying "this probably won't work very well" 1) blithely ignores the tens of thousands of Americans it will kill a year and 2) assumes it's actually supposed to "work" as anything but cutting healthcare to fund tax cuts.

 

Liberals are not guilty of conservatives wanting to deprive millions of healthcare for ideological reasons. Conservatives get to own their own policies 100%. This is the party of cheering on "let them die" aft their own debates. They don't give one s*** about poor people not having health care. Their is nothing to compromise with on that ideology because it's essential become a death cult that worships wealth.

 

You're also ignoring that the ACA itself is a massive compromise and about the only realistic and most conservative way you can approach covering the millions of Americans it has added and maintaining a private market based system. The "extreme left" would, at a minimum, have had a public option.

I disagree on both accounts. The ACA was not a compromise it was ramrodded through Congress just as this was is. Neither was a good compromise so I don't see either really working in the long run.

[ptatc]

I mean, the Republicans drafted this bill in secrecy with Lobbyists, not democrats, and they are about to ram it through by any means possible. Hard to point fingers about agreements when that is happening

I agree. I said it doesn't work when either side doesn't compromise.

[StrangeSox]

I disagree on both accounts. The ACA was not a compromise it was ramrodded through Congress just as this was is. Neither was a good compromise so I don't see either really working in the long run.

 

This is straight up dishonest. The ACA took months and months, was all done publicly, was subjected to over a hundred public hearings, Democrats spent months working with multiple Republicans trying to get them on board and reworking the bill to do so, and they still got dozens and dozens of amendments allowed. But Mitch McConnell's political strategy of denying a single Republican vote worked, and years later we still get these disingenuous attacks on what the ACA process actually was. Trying to equate what happened in 2009-2010 with the process on this bill is absurd.

 

And you ignored the bulk of the point, which is that this isn't actually a healthcare bill attempting to help anyone. The ACA bill, regardless of who did or didn't vote for it, was a bill that was focused on supporting and reinforcing our existing health insurance system. It featured previously conservative market-based approaches. If you actually care about getting people covered with decent insurance, it's about the most Republican-friendly approach that you can take, and Republicans were lockstep against it. There was never, ever a chance of getting a compromise bill with the Republicans in 2009-2010, and there certainly wasn't ever going to be one after the tea party wave got elected. Republicans simply do not care about expanding health coverage. Their bill starts with the goal of throwing millions off of coverage, destroying pre existing conditions protections, and gutting the broad insurance market protections we likely all enjoy and benefit from.

 

The ACA is not some sort of radical left-wing bill and has been attacked from the left as an insurance company handout from the start. A "rammed down our throats" progressive bill would have had a public option if not straight up single payer.

Edited June 26, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

It was continually declining though. More and more insurance companies were dropping out and some even folded due to the funding issues. This was all prior to Trump being elected so you can't blame everything on him.

There are some markets that have substantial issues. The majority are stable and successful.

[Reddy]

it's so weird how ptac is usually a good poster, but this stuff with the ACA is complete, fabricated lies.

[ptatc]

it's so weird how ptac is usually a good poster, but this stuff with the ACA is complete, fabricated lies.

Not it's not. There is not a single thing that are lies. Every single one of them is from personal experience. I know they aren't lies because they are what I've seen in the clinic. Now as someone else just posted maybe the majority are currently stable but based on what we've seen I don't think you or anyone else could say that they wouldn't go the same way.

 

You again are showing your complete and utter bias with painting everything with a broad brush. I said insurance companies were dropping ACA and some were closing. Those are not lies they are facts. Maybe the majority are doing well but what I said is still true.

[Reddy]

Not it's not. There is not a single thing that are lies. Every single one of them is from personal experience. I know they aren't lies because they are what I've seen in the clinic. Now as someone else just posted maybe the majority are currently stable but based on what we've seen I don't think you or anyone else could say that they wouldn't go the same way.

 

You again are showing your complete and utter bias with painting everything with a broad brush. I said insurance companies were dropping ACA and some were closing. Those are not lies they are facts. Maybe the majority are doing well but what I said is still true.

That's not what I was referring to. To suggest that the ACA was "ramrodded" through congress is a complete and utter falsehood.

[ptatc]

That's not what I was referring to. To suggest that the ACA was "ramrodded" through congress is a complete and utter falsehood.

One articles view as to why it was kept from congress for so long and then ramrodded through legislation:

 

The reasons for all this were mostly political, this was supposed to be Obama's signature reform and his legacy. The Democrats weren't interested in negotiating with republicans because the had won big in the 2008 elections and this was also partly their victory legislation. The bill was also getting more and more unpopular as the "debate" went on and got uglier and it started becoming apparent that anyone who voted for the bill that wasn't in a totally safe district would face major challenges in reelection bids, especially for republicans, for supporting the bill, so passing fast there was hope that the public's short memory would forget the worst transgressions. The bill was also passed quickly because it has huge welfare spending in it in the form of medicaid expansions and premium subsidies, which once implemented would be nearly impossible to repeal. The spending in the bill was huge and it needed years of extra taxes being collected to build up a cash reserve in order for the bill to be rated as budget neutral.

 

Now you may not think it was and others may not have but others thought so and still think so.

 

Again when you only look at things from a single point of view, it really colors what you see.

 

This is getting to be like Illinois politics so I'm going to bow out of this "discussion."

 

 

[caulfield12]

Trumpcare would send her to Mexico for birth control (Planned Parenthood provision)

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/26/health/plann...ears/index.html

 

[caulfield12]

One articles view as to why it was kept from congress for so long and then ramrodded through legislation:

 

The reasons for all this were mostly political, this was supposed to be Obama's signature reform and his legacy. The Democrats weren't interested in negotiating with republicans because the had won big in the 2008 elections and this was also partly their victory legislation. The bill was also getting more and more unpopular as the "debate" went on and got uglier and it started becoming apparent that anyone who voted for the bill that wasn't in a totally safe district would face major challenges in reelection bids, especially for republicans, for supporting the bill, so passing fast there was hope that the public's short memory would forget the worst transgressions. The bill was also passed quickly because it has huge welfare spending in it in the form of medicaid expansions and premium subsidies, which once implemented would be nearly impossible to repeal. The spending in the bill was huge and it needed years of extra taxes being collected to build up a cash reserve in order for the bill to be rated as budget neutral.

 

Now you may not think it was and others may not have but others thought so and still think so.

 

Again when you only look at things from a single point of view, it really colors what you see.

 

This is getting to be like Illinois politics so I'm going to bow out of this "discussion."

 

One big problem. The ACA was to the right of Romney's health care plan for Massachusetts...and was a headlining element of his national platform when he ran for President in 2008.

 

It was widely praised and considered to be about as bipartisan as possible for a GOP governor in a deep blue state.

Suddenly, by 2010...it was anathema.

 

Fwiw, the biggest enemy Trump's bill currently has is the Koch Brothers, who are threatening to spend $300-400 million in the next election cycle, including the primary targeting of Republicans who cross them because the bill's "not conservative enough."

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

It is more blatant lying to say the ACA was written and debated in secret and passed quickly. It doesn't matter what someone "thinks" when it is diametrically opposed to what actually happened.

[StrangeSox]

This chart shows the stunning trade-off at the heart of the GOP health plan

 

 

 

a lot of scrolling to drive the point home, but this is the main takeaway

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Ron Johnson: People with preexisting condition don’t deserve insurance like ‘somebody who crashes their car’

 

Kellyanne Conway: Those on Medicaid who will lose health insurance can always get jobs http://cnb.cx/2s6TFd3

Edited June 26, 2017 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

Kellyanne still has a job? How is that possible?

 

If you're truly terrible in the Trump admin, you just get promoted, like her and Sean Spicer...

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

If you have voted for a single Republican at the state or national level in the past 10 years, you have openly endorsed families being ruined for someone getting cancer. Or whatever. A single Republican vote was an endorsement of this. They made this 100% clear. Preexisting conditons, lifetime caps, ending Medicaid - they have said this over, and over, and over again.

 

Remember that.

 

No. Just f***ing no.

 

Millions and millions of Americans had their health care situation completely ruined by the ACA, but hey, if you ever checked the box next to R once, then you wish for cancer to ruin every American family.

 

Just wow.

[StrangeSox]

No. Just f***ing no.

 

Millions and millions of Americans had their health care situation completely ruined by the ACA, but hey, if you ever checked the box next to R once, then you wish for cancer to ruin every American family.

 

Just wow.

 

Republicans are going to reinstate lifetime and annual caps so yeah, that's what they actually want to happen and they've been crystal clear about rolling back the ACA and replacing it with nothing/dogs*** for nearly 10 years now. So, yeah.

[Quin]

No. Just f***ing no.

 

Millions and millions of Americans had their health care situation completely ruined by the ACA, but hey, if you ever checked the box next to R once, then you wish for cancer to ruin every American family.

 

Just wow.

 

It's less wishing a family gets cancer and more not caring.

 

The ACA could have been better, but thank Mitch McConnell for basically demanding it be a partisan bill.

[RockRaines]

So every major medical association is against this bill.

[StrangeSox]

CBO score's in.

 

 

22 million additional Americans uninsured under BRCA (Senate health care bill).

[StrangeSox]

15 million more people uninsured next year

Edited June 26, 2017 by StrangeSox

[Dick Allen]

Coverage for everyone, better care, lower premiums, lower deductibles. We do have that one on tape.