Reddy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 03:58 PM) And it's people who never hold him accountable for his own actions that have created his "maverick" label. He plays them for suckers. Constantly. No one's not holding him accountable for this vote. Some of us are looking at the bigger picture. If he fails to live up to his speech when his name is called in the final vote, I'll be just as disgusted as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Haha since when did I become one of the more moderate voices of our lefties? This is weird. I got banned for a year for taking a hard line stance against police brutality. Edited July 25, 2017 by Reddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 02:42 PM) Stop being fatalist. We've seen that people power can stop these votes. It's happened over and over again all year, thus far. Just keep doing the work, stop whining, and don't give up. BTW my billionaires reference was to Heller being a no until Steve Wynn called him every day demanding that he switch to yes. It's cool when someone with more wealth than they could spend in several lifetimes has the individual power to control Senators into harming tens of millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) No one's not holding him accountable for this vote. Some of us are looking at the bigger picture. If he fails to live up to his speech when his name is called in the final vote, I'll be just as disgusted as you. McCain is trying to have it both ways and it's disgusting. Makes it worse to see people like you praise him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) No one's not holding him accountable for this vote. Some of us are looking at the bigger picture. If he fails to live up to his speech when his name is called in the final vote, I'll be just as disgusted as you. McCain's entire history in the Senate is a failure to do anything brave when it matters. He could have lived up to his speech today, he could have lived up to the speeches the last couple of weeks he made decrying that things weren't regular order, but he chose to vote yes. There's zero reason not to be disgusted with him right now. And, of course, the 49 other Republicans who voted in favor of this. Edited July 25, 2017 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 04:01 PM) BTW my billionaires reference was to Heller being a no until Steve Wynn called him every day demanding that he switch to yes. It's cool when someone with more wealth than they could spend in several lifetimes has the individual power to control Senators into harming tens of millions. Agreed 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Today is the day John McCain became president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 LOL he voted yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 02:52 PM) He has another vote. The BRCA lost in a 43-57 vote. John McCain voted for that bill. Not just the MTP, for the bill itself. Are you content yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I don't understand at all what will happen after the house bill presumably fails next. Like, I get there's some sort of new bill introduction but I don't get what applies to that in terms of byrd rules and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) I don't understand at all what will happen after the house bill presumably fails next. Like, I get there's some sort of new bill introduction but I don't get what applies to that in terms of byrd rules and the like. Apparently the setup is going to be that they will do a 50+1 passing of a "skinny" bill that repeals everything they can, such as the individual mandate and a lot of the subsidies, then punt it back to a conference committee with the House. A few weeks from now they'll announce an agreement and then everyone can celebrate going back to being uninsurable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I think "skinny repeal" is just individual and business mandates and medical device tax repeal. The first one blows up the individual market, of course. e: and I think the strategy of the skinny repeal is to get something, anything passed so it can be punted to conference where they'll continue to work in total secrecy, come up with some garbage plan, and then vote on it as quickly as possible once it's unveiled. Edited July 26, 2017 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Read that they think passing skinny repeal could lead to a conference where the house bill gets reconfirmed. Heller folded like a weasel. Capito folded like a weasel. This thing depends on Rand Paul actually killing it from the right and I don't see it happening. Have never seen anything like people trashing how terrible a bill is and then folding with NO rationale for why it's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) Read that they think passing skinny repeal could lead to a conference where the house bill gets reconfirmed. Heller folded like a weasel. Capito folded like a weasel. This thing depends on Rand Paul actually killing it from the right and I don't see it happening. Have never seen anything like people trashing how terrible a bill is and then folding with NO rationale for why it's better. $$$$$$ The GOP billionaire donor base wants tax cuts, and they leaned on these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 But they aren't even coming up with an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Why bother? They know the only consequences they'll face are from losing donor funding and potentially even more extreme primary challengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Dignity mainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 12:28 PM) Dignity mainly. Yes, that's right, dignity. That's the first thing I think of when I think of the modern day Republican Party. Dignity. Its not like any of us can come up with a much larger example of where they completely gave that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 McCain voted NO on clean repeal. His yes vote wasn't for a final bill, but for adding the BCRA to the AHCA bill. Don't agree with it and think it goes against the spirit of his speech, but it doesn't technically violate the letter of the speech. He didn't vote for the bill "as it stood" but as an amendment to the AHCA bill that would continue to be reworked and receive additional amendments. Not defending, just explaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:22 PM) McCain voted NO on clean repeal. His yes vote wasn't for a final bill, but for adding the BCRA to the AHCA bill. Don't agree with it and think it goes against the spirit of his speech, but it doesn't technically violate the letter of the speech. He didn't vote for the bill "as it stood" but as an amendment to the AHCA bill that would continue to be reworked and receive additional amendments. Not defending, just explaining. I really enjoy your posts, but I don't get the McCain admiration. If it comes down to one vote, his vote in the end, he isn't going to vote for what you want. He isn't going o be a hero to Americans, he will be a hero to the Republican Party and their fake republican leader who has bashed him for being a POW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:22 PM) McCain voted NO on clean repeal. His yes vote wasn't for a final bill, but for adding the BCRA to the AHCA bill. Don't agree with it and think it goes against the spirit of his speech, but it doesn't technically violate the letter of the speech. He didn't vote for the bill "as it stood" but as an amendment to the AHCA bill that would continue to be reworked and receive additional amendments. Not defending, just explaining. The Congress must now return to regular order, hold hearings, receive input from members of both parties, and heed the recommendations of our nation's governors so that we can produce a bill that finally provides Americans with access to quality and affordable health care. The Democrats filed a motion to do exactly this today, to send this bill back to committee. You can guess which way the Maverick voted, I won't hold my breath while waiting. Mavericky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:15 PM) I really enjoy your posts, but I don't get the McCain admiration. If it comes down to one vote, his vote in the end, he isn't going to vote for what you want. He isn't going o be a hero to Americans, he will be a hero to the Republican Party and their fake republican leader who has bashed him for being a POW. It's not admiration so much as holding out hope that he sticks to his word. It's a slim hope. I'm just not a fan of all the sensationalism bulls*** surrounding his votes. I like facts, regardless what side of the aisle they support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) It's not admiration so much as holding out hope that he sticks to his word. It's a slim hope. I'm just not a fan of all the sensationalism bulls*** surrounding his votes. I like facts, regardless what side of the aisle they support. How many times will he have to vote in a way that 100% contradicts his own words before you realize he's bulls*****d you and you were ok with letting him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 10:51 PM) How many times will he have to vote in a way that 100% contradicts his own words before you realize he's bulls*****d you and you were ok with letting him? Scroll up. And I didn't realize McCain answered to me haha. Let him? Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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