OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[southsider2k5]

The logical conclusion from your disbelief about the VA's performance is; My God, private insurance must be jaw droppingly horrible.

 

And yeah, I pretty much agree with that.

 

I know it is anecdotal, but in being around generations of veterans all my life, and being a member of a veterans organization, one start of a story I have never heard is "I had a great/good/decent experience with the VA..."

[StrangeSox]

...which tells you how horrible private plans are.

[Jake]

I would tell you about my experiences with BCBS, but it sucks so much that I can't afford any preventative care and I can't tend to any nagging ailments because I can't afford to deal with those either.

[southsider2k5]

...which tells you how horrible private plans are.

 

And it doesn't seem they adjust for the six months to a year wait for most VA tests and treatments. I like how they also use variance as a test subject to justify the care. Everyone gets equally awful care at the VA, so if that is a win... sure, ok. Anyone who has the option of insurance uses it every single time versus going to the VA. I have never heard anyone do the opposite.

[Y2HH]

I would tell you about my experiences with BCBS, but it sucks so much that I can't afford any preventative care and I can't tend to any nagging ailments because I can't afford to deal with those either.

 

BCBS is a franchise...not all of them are the same.

 

The problem with insurance, as is the problem with anything...is people don't care to know the details...and as they say, the devil is the details. Ask most anyone you know what type of insurance they have, and you'd be lucky if they knew if it was a PPO or an HMO. Most people don't even know the core difference between a PPO/HMO, because having to research that might cut into their reality TV watching time. If by some chance they do happen to know that, ask them what their deductibles/max expense are...or what's covered...odds are they have no idea, because they don't/won't care until it's too late and they suddenly have to care.

 

People are lazy...even when it comes to knowing what their insurance covers.

 

I don't wish to sound like an insurance company shill here, despite full disclosure that I presently work for one. Insurance companies do a lot of things I disagree with, a lot of things the ACA actually corrected for the better. But it takes more than insurance companies to mess this up...the doctors/hospitals/drug companies share a majority of the blame, but haven't been touched. Remember, they're the ones that send the arbitrary and exorbitant bills...but nobody seems to care about that. It's all the insurance companies fault.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

And it doesn't seem they adjust for the six months to a year wait for most VA tests and treatments. I like how they also use variance as a test subject to justify the care. Everyone gets equally awful care at the VA, so if that is a win... sure, ok. Anyone who has the option of insurance uses it every single time versus going to the VA. I have never heard anyone do the opposite.

 

My father is retired...Vietnam vet...won't even use the VA...paid for his own insurance as to avoid them until he was of medicare age. That's how awesome the VA is. It also highlights how easy it is to make some things look nice, and others look terrible in these studies.

 

I've had various insurance throughout my life...and anytime I've used it, I've never had a problem doing so.

[bmags]

I'll say I've had a pretty good experience with BCBS in Illinois. But dental, however, I'm kinda disappointed about how little that covers for me.

[Y2HH]

I'll say I've had a pretty good experience with BCBS in Illinois. But dental, however, I'm kinda disappointed about how little that covers for me.

 

Dental insurance is a universal oddity...I'm not really sure what to say about it...

[southsider2k5]

I'll say I've had a pretty good experience with BCBS in Illinois. But dental, however, I'm kinda disappointed about how little that covers for me.

 

I have had it for a long time over the years. No real complaints for me either, and that is including a kid in NICU for a week.

[BigSqwert]

I still think health insurance should cover everything including eyes and teeth. It's just another part of your body so it would be like seeing another specialist such as a podiatrist or urologist.

[Jenksismyhero]

I still think health insurance should cover everything including eyes and teeth. It's just another part of your body so it would be like seeing another specialist such as a podiatrist or urologist.

 

I never understood why they were separated. It's not like your eyesight is some elective medical issue.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[Soxbadger]

I don't wish to sound like an insurance company shill here, despite full disclosure that I presently work for one. Insurance companies do a lot of things I disagree with, a lot of things the ACA actually corrected for the better. But it takes more than insurance companies to mess this up...the doctors/hospitals/drug companies share a majority of the blame, but haven't been touched. Remember, they're the ones that send the arbitrary and exorbitant bills...but nobody seems to care about that. It's all the insurance companies fault.

 

Doctors have a really powerful and tricky lobby. Anyone that goes up against Doctors, see lawyers, gets vilified.

[bmags]

I don't wish to sound like an insurance company shill here, despite full disclosure that I presently work for one. Insurance companies do a lot of things I disagree with, a lot of things the ACA actually corrected for the better. But it takes more than insurance companies to mess this up...the doctors/hospitals/drug companies share a majority of the blame, but haven't been touched. Remember, they're the ones that send the arbitrary and exorbitant bills...but nobody seems to care about that. It's all the insurance companies fault.

 

I really agree with you. I think politically it was just easier to use the insurance companies cost-saving mechanisms to help lower costs, while reducing the barriers to getting insurance. As you saw, it's really hard for the government to take on cost-cutting measures without people screaming about death panels. But also, it's really hard to go after doctors and hospitals, like soxbadger said. People respect doctors, one of the few institutions that people still DO respect. So to say "we're going to cut down on doctor pay/ we're going to pay less" etc. it's just too easy to frame as taking the decisions out of doctors hands and into the hands of BUREAUCRATS.

[StrangeSox]

I don't wish to sound like an insurance company shill here, despite full disclosure that I presently work for one. Insurance companies do a lot of things I disagree with, a lot of things the ACA actually corrected for the better. But it takes more than insurance companies to mess this up...the doctors/hospitals/drug companies share a majority of the blame, but haven't been touched. Remember, they're the ones that send the arbitrary and exorbitant bills...but nobody seems to care about that. It's all the insurance companies fault.

 

The ACA, or OBAMACARE as you prefer it, actually does something about arbitrary/fraudulent billing, at least with respect to Medicare.

 

I think insurance companies get the majority of the ire because we absolutely need doctors, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies, but we don't need private insurance companies to have a functional health care system. If we switched to a single-payer, Medicare-for-all type system, then they'd just be an optional thing for people who want supplemental coverage whereas even in a fully nationalized NHS-style system, you still need doctors and hospitals and medicine. That makes them an easy target.

Edited August 22, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

The ACA, or OBAMACARE as you prefer it, actually does something about arbitrary/fraudulent billing, at least with respect to Medicare.

 

I think insurance companies get the majority of the ire because we absolutely need doctors, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies, but we don't need private insurance companies to have a functional health care system. If we switched to a single-payer, Medicare-for-all type system, then they'd just be an optional thing for people who want supplemental coverage whereas even in a fully nationalized NHS-style system, you still need doctors and hospitals and medicine. That makes them an easy target.

 

In other words, our eyes are on the left hand while they need to be on both. IMO, ignorance of what's actually happening out there isn't an excuse to ignore it. We don't have a single payer system, so none of that matters. We have what we have...and in having that, it means people need to watch all aspects of what goes into the system as a whole, not one single aspect because it's easier that way.

[southsider2k5]

The ACA, or OBAMACARE as you prefer it, actually does something about arbitrary/fraudulent billing, at least with respect to Medicare.

 

I think insurance companies get the majority of the ire because we absolutely need doctors, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies, but we don't need private insurance companies to have a functional health care system. If we switched to a single-payer, Medicare-for-all type system, then they'd just be an optional thing for people who want supplemental coverage whereas even in a fully nationalized NHS-style system, you still need doctors and hospitals and medicine. That makes them an easy target.

 

What? I was told there was no fraud or waste in government spending, let alone $716 billion in one program.

[StrangeSox]

No you weren't, you were shown that the fraud and waste is comparable to and often better than the private sector alternatives. And that $716b isn't entirely from fraud, a big part is negotiated payment rates with doctors and hospitals.

[Balta1701]

No you weren't, you were shown that the fraud and waste is comparable to and often better than the private sector alternatives. And that $716b isn't entirely from fraud, a big part is negotiated payment rates with doctors and hospitals.

Well, a big chunk is also from ending Medicare Advantage, which pays private insurers to do the same thing Medicare does, which certainly could be classified as fraud also.

 

Of course, the problem with calling it that is that "turning Medicare into Medicare Advantage" is a pretty decent summary of one of Paul Ryan's Medicare Overhaul plans...taking the guaranteed single payer system and replacing it with vouchers to purchase private insurance.

[Y2HH]

Well, a big chunk is also from ending Medicare Advantage, which pays private insurers to do the same thing Medicare does, which certainly could be classified as fraud also.

 

Of course, the problem with calling it that is that "turning Medicare into Medicare Advantage" is a pretty decent summary of one of Paul Ryan's Medicare Overhaul plans...taking the guaranteed single payer system and replacing it with vouchers to purchase private insurance.

 

Medicare is also partially responsible for why you pay 3x as much. Private insurers are what hospitals use to make up for what they lose to Medicare negotiations.

[Balta1701]

Medicare is also partially responsible for why you pay 3x as much. Private insurers are what hospitals use to make up for what they lose to Medicare negotiations.

Great. So let me in on Medicare.

[Y2HH]

Great. So let me in on Medicare.

 

They will...when you're 98.

[EvilMonkey]

Just finished having ortho-whatever surgery on my right knee. I'll let you know the details of that bill when I actually see it. But all the bills prior to that? Billed $220 for a doc visit prior to the surgery, where he told me the results of the mri, we talked about surgery and then scheduled the surgery. I saw the doctor for less than 5 minutes. The bill, even at the reduced insurance rate, was $222. Even if you factor in 10 more minutes for him to dictate his notes about it, that comes to $888 per hour. Just how is screwing with insurance companies going to fix THAT? The visit prior to that one where we scheduled the mri was billed at $185. The damn MRI was almost $2k before the insurance negotiated rate drop. Can't WAIT to see what the surgery bill will be. And for the follow up visit on Friday. And the therapy afterwards.

 

[bmags]

I agree, we should let the government negotiate rates.

[Y2HH]

I agree, we should let the government negotiate rates.

 

And we're back to square one.

 

This isn't happening, so lets move on already.

 

P.S. The horse is dead. Stop beating it with the futile stick.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

While I'm not particularly optimistic for single-payer in this country any time soon, there's no reason to stop advocating for and discussing it.