OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[Balta1701]

The VP should explain what "forcible rape" is and why he cosponsored a bill with that language. Why shouldn't the media ask him about his legislative history, especially when it's directly related to a current major story?

Wait, what did Biden do?

[mr_genius]

The VP should explain what "forcible rape" is and why he cosponsored a bill with that language. Why shouldn't the media ask him about his legislative history, especially when it's directly related to a current major story?

 

Paul Ryan is gonna rape you

[farmteam]

Wait, what did Biden do?

I'm guessing he meant "VP nominee" as in Paul Ryan.

[southsider2k5]

Paul Ryan is gonna rape you

 

unforcably though.

[greg775]

Please do me a favor and read this story in our local student newspaper. I don't want this to be political but I do, as human beings, want you to comment on this student's dilemma.

Answer these questions for me: "What should this student do?" "How should this student feel?"

 

He had an effective treatment in place, a treatment paid for by mom's awesome insurance company. Mom has to give up insurance so he is left to find his own plan. His current insurance company, the only one that would take him, requires treatment that is much worse with horrible side-effects. Does he not have a right to the treatment that f***ing works???!!! Treatment that doens't have him pissing every 20 seconds? Treatment that doesn't have him facing horrible withdrawal symptoms and feeling like he is dying?

My comment is we are almost like savages as a society as evidenced by this case. This kid cannot get effective medical care!!!!! Savages are we.

 

http://kansan.com/opinion/2012/09/24/webbe...-just-finances/

Edited September 26, 2012 by greg775

[EvilMonkey]

Please do me a favor and read this story in our local student newspaper. I don't want this to be political but I do, as human beings, want you to comment on this student's dilemma.

Answer these questions for me: "What should this student do?" "How should this student feel?"

 

He had an effective treatment in place, a treatment paid for by mom's awesome insurance company. Mom has to give up insurance so he is left to find his own plan. His current insurance company, the only one that would take him, requires treatment that is much worse with horrible side-effects. Does he not have a right to the treatment that f***ing works???!!! Treatment that doens't have him pissing every 20 seconds? Treatment that doesn't have him facing horrible withdrawal symptoms and feeling like he is dying?

My comment is we are almost like savages as a society as evidenced by this case. This kid cannot get effective medical care!!!!! Savages are we.

 

http://kansan.com/opinion/2012/09/24/webbe...-just-finances/

A serious question for you. Are you more pissed at the insurance company for not wanting to pay, or for the drug company charging $5000? It seems as if your first reaction is 'f*** those insurance bastards for not paying for this'. but don't they have just as much right to make money as the drug makers? I am not pointing or accusing, just wondering where you are placing the blame. Also, how big is this 'group'? 5%? 1%/ .004%? You can't save everyone, so where is the cutoff?

 

As for this specific case, if what he says is true, that this costs MORE that what he was doing, then I don't understand the logic behind it. Also, pretty selfish of mom to quit her job knowing what the damages would be. Perhaps you should be focusing some anger on her for that situation alone. I know some people who have stayed in crappy jobs because the pay/benefits were just too good.

[StrangeSox]

They do have a 'right' to try to make money. Which is why our current system of providing health care is so horrible.

[Jenksismyhero]

So, no discussion about Obama's decision to ignore world leaders in town for an appearance on The View?

[StrangeSox]

Didn't he recently give a speech at the UN and some big international conference Clinton was putting on?

 

Also why is this in the OBAMACARE (thanks y2hh!) thread?

[Jenksismyhero]

Didn't he recently give a speech at the UN and some big international conference Clinton was putting on?

 

Also why is this in the OBAMACARE (thanks y2hh!) thread?

 

Ha, I didn't read the thread. I saw Obama and thought it was the re-election thread. My bad!

[Kyyle23]

Ha, I didn't read the thread. I saw Obama and thought it was the re-election thread. My bad!

 

LMAO.

 

WHY ARE YOU ALL JUST TALKING ABOUT HEALTH CARE HERE!>!>!

[Y2HH]

Didn't he recently give a speech at the UN and some big international conference Clinton was putting on?

 

Also why is this in the OBAMACARE (thanks y2hh!) thread?

 

You suck.

[greg775]

A serious question for you. Are you more pissed at the insurance company for not wanting to pay, or for the drug company charging $5000? It seems as if your first reaction is 'f*** those insurance bastards for not paying for this'. but don't they have just as much right to make money as the drug makers? I am not pointing or accusing, just wondering where you are placing the blame. Also, how big is this 'group'? 5%? 1%/ .004%? You can't save everyone, so where is the cutoff?

 

As for this specific case, if what he says is true, that this costs MORE that what he was doing, then I don't understand the logic behind it. Also, pretty selfish of mom to quit her job knowing what the damages would be. Perhaps you should be focusing some anger on her for that situation alone. I know some people who have stayed in crappy jobs because the pay/benefits were just too good.

 

You can't get mad at the mom for wanting to go back to school. Remember the mom and dad made several phone calls just to get the current insurance to agree to treat him at all. She obviously cares. I am mad at the fact he couldn't get insurance. No company would take him so he had to get on some lousy student plan. Reading that story don't you agree we are a country turning into savages? We won't allow an American to receive treatments that fix him. No, we purposely put him through misery. I think we have become savages.

 

Yes the insurance companies deserve to make money, but what I'm saying is if these companies won't allow suitable treatments, maybe Obamacare is our only hope to remain a civilized society!?

Edited September 27, 2012 by greg775

[EvilMonkey]

You can't get mad at the mom for wanting to go back to school. Remember the mom and dad made several phone calls just to get the current insurance to agree to treat him at all. She obviously cares. I am mad at the fact he couldn't get insurance. No company would take him so he had to get on some lousy student plan. Reading that story don't you agree we are a country turning into savages? We won't allow an American to receive treatments that fix him. No, we purposely put him through misery. I think we have become savages.

 

Yes the insurance companies deserve to make money, but what I'm saying is if these companies won't allow suitable treatments, maybe Obamacare is our only hope to remain a civilized society!?

I still don't get why this is all insurance's fault? Why can't a group of docs just take care of his treatment for no cost, or for whatever he can pay? Your anger is at the insurance company not wanting to lose tons of money in this deal. I see none at doctors making tons of money in this deal, or drug companies making tons of money in this deal, or even the mom for putting him in that situation to begin with. She cares, but not enough to forgo the education a while longer so he can keep the affordable treatments. In short, why, to you, are the insurance companies savages, and not every one else who isn't willing to give up stuff for this kid? if the mom won't give up grad school, why should the insurance company give up profits? I CAN get mad at the mom. Ooooh, she made some calls. How about a real sacrifice and keep your job with benefits. No, she wants some other company to just pick up the slack for what SHE doesn't want to cover any more. I just think thanks to the politics of it, the insurance company gets made out to be the bad guy, and nobody else, even though there are other places where people/companies can give up stuff as well to help, but they don't.

[Y2HH]

I still don't get why this is all insurance's fault? Why can't a group of docs just take care of his treatment for no cost, or for whatever he can pay? Your anger is at the insurance company not wanting to lose tons of money in this deal. I see none at doctors making tons of money in this deal, or drug companies making tons of money in this deal, or even the mom for putting him in that situation to begin with. She cares, but not enough to forgo the education a while longer so he can keep the affordable treatments. In short, why, to you, are the insurance companies savages, and not every one else who isn't willing to give up stuff for this kid? if the mom won't give up grad school, why should the insurance company give up profits? I CAN get mad at the mom. Ooooh, she made some calls. How about a real sacrifice and keep your job with benefits. No, she wants some other company to just pick up the slack for what SHE doesn't want to cover any more. I just think thanks to the politics of it, the insurance company gets made out to be the bad guy, and nobody else, even though there are other places where people/companies can give up stuff as well to help, but they don't.

 

This is the same thing I've been saying for years, but nobody pays attention.

 

They're busy looking at the big green face in the smoke instead of the little man behind the curtains. The insurance companies aren't the ones sending the bills...your f***ing doctor is.

 

For example, in the past 2 months, my wife had 3 "5 minute" doctor visits...the 5 minute part is NOT an exaggeration. Billed at over 600$ EACH. That's MORE than 1800$ in bills sent to insurance. For 15 minutes of work.

 

Let me repeat that.

 

For 15 minutes of "work".

 

Do the math.

 

You know what, let me do the math for you. That's MORE THAN 7200$ an hour. And the bill?! Who knows what it is they wrote down on it...but apparently in that 5 minutes they did 13 different things to the tune of over 600$ each visit.

 

That damned insurance company#$!#@!%!@#$

Edited September 28, 2012 by Y2HH

[EvilMonkey]

This is the same thing I've been saying for years, but nobody pays attention.

 

They're busy looking at the big green face in the smoke instead of the little man behind the curtains. The insurance companies aren't the ones sending the bills...your f***ing doctor is.

 

For example, in the past 2 months, my wife had 3 "5 minute" doctor visits...the 5 minute part is NOT an exaggeration. Billed at over 600$ EACH. That's 1800$ in bills sent to insurance. For 15 minutes of work.

 

Let me repeat that. For 15 minutes of "work".

 

Do the math.

Knee surgery, my friend. $6k for surgicenter, total time in the place 6 hours with 4 of it knocked out in recovery.. $6k for the surgeon, for an hour surgery. $1k for the anestesia guy, however you spell that. $1.8k for a surgical 'assistant'. 4 doc visits prior to the surgery, all 4 totaling less than 10 minutes actual time (like you, seriously not kidding on the time) with the doc, $220 EACH visit. MRI at $700. PT, 9 visits at $95 per visit. Had follow up visit this morning, longest visit so far, 4 minutes, I timed it. $220. But insurance is the bad guy here?

[greg775]

I still don't get why this is all insurance's fault? Why can't a group of docs just take care of his treatment for no cost, or for whatever he can pay? Your anger is at the insurance company not wanting to lose tons of money in this deal. I see none at doctors making tons of money in this deal, or drug companies making tons of money in this deal, or even the mom for putting him in that situation to begin with. She cares, but not enough to forgo the education a while longer so he can keep the affordable treatments. In short, why, to you, are the insurance companies savages, and not every one else who isn't willing to give up stuff for this kid? if the mom won't give up grad school, why should the insurance company give up profits? I CAN get mad at the mom. Ooooh, she made some calls. How about a real sacrifice and keep your job with benefits. No, she wants some other company to just pick up the slack for what SHE doesn't want to cover any more. I just think thanks to the politics of it, the insurance company gets made out to be the bad guy, and nobody else, even though there are other places where people/companies can give up stuff as well to help, but they don't.

 

 

This is the same thing I've been saying for years, but nobody pays attention.

 

They're busy looking at the big green face in the smoke instead of the little man behind the curtains. The insurance companies aren't the ones sending the bills...your f***ing doctor is.

 

For example, in the past 2 months, my wife had 3 "5 minute" doctor visits...the 5 minute part is NOT an exaggeration. Billed at over 600$ EACH. That's MORE than 1800$ in bills sent to insurance. For 15 minutes of work.

 

Let me repeat that.

 

For 15 minutes of "work".

 

Do the math.

 

You know what, let me do the math for you. That's MORE THAN 7200$ an hour. And the bill?! Who knows what it is they wrote down on it...but apparently in that 5 minutes they did 13 different things to the tune of over 600$ each visit.

 

That damned insurance company#$!#@!%!@#$

 

 

Knee surgery, my friend. $6k for surgicenter, total time in the place 6 hours with 4 of it knocked out in recovery.. $6k for the surgeon, for an hour surgery. $1k for the anestesia guy, however you spell that. $1.8k for a surgical 'assistant'. 4 doc visits prior to the surgery, all 4 totaling less than 10 minutes actual time (like you, seriously not kidding on the time) with the doc, $220 EACH visit. MRI at $700. PT, 9 visits at $95 per visit. Had follow up visit this morning, longest visit so far, 4 minutes, I timed it. $220. But insurance is the bad guy here?

 

Great posts. They have given me some things to consider, but my point is this kid couldn't get insurance from a real company. I think, yes, that does qualify our society as savages. Maybe the mom is sort of a culprit. I never considered that much. Your posts are very thought provoking, but look, most people who have insurance use the insurance. Why can't this kid get coverage from a reputable company? Cause our society is f***ed is my opinion.

[StrangeSox]

This is the same thing I've been saying for years, but nobody pays attention.

 

They're busy looking at the big green face in the smoke instead of the little man behind the curtains. The insurance companies aren't the ones sending the bills...your f***ing doctor is.

 

For example, in the past 2 months, my wife had 3 "5 minute" doctor visits...the 5 minute part is NOT an exaggeration. Billed at over 600$ EACH. That's MORE than 1800$ in bills sent to insurance. For 15 minutes of work.

 

Let me repeat that.

 

For 15 minutes of "work".

 

Do the math.

 

You know what, let me do the math for you. That's MORE THAN 7200$ an hour. And the bill?! Who knows what it is they wrote down on it...but apparently in that 5 minutes they did 13 different things to the tune of over 600$ each visit.

 

That damned insurance company#$!#@!%!@#$

 

Insurance companies are a separate problem from the actual bottom line medical costs, but they are still an enormous problem and, in my view, serve no real social purpose.

 

But I'd be fine with nationalizing the entire system.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Knee surgery, my friend. $6k for surgicenter, total time in the place 6 hours with 4 of it knocked out in recovery.. $6k for the surgeon, for an hour surgery. $1k for the anestesia guy, however you spell that. $1.8k for a surgical 'assistant'. 4 doc visits prior to the surgery, all 4 totaling less than 10 minutes actual time (like you, seriously not kidding on the time) with the doc, $220 EACH visit. MRI at $700. PT, 9 visits at $95 per visit. Had follow up visit this morning, longest visit so far, 4 minutes, I timed it. $220. But insurance is the bad guy here?

 

At least you were paying for a highly skilled service. Surgeons and anesthesiologists don't grow on trees.

 

A couple years ago I was having some unexplained pain in my groin and went to a general practitioner and a urinologist. Both told me "I dunno". My insurance paid $1600 (and $400 from me out of pocket) for those expert answers. Luckily the problem went away after a while.

[Jake]

Hmm...imagine if we had a system in which no one profited from our poor health

[Y2HH]

Hmm...imagine if we had a system in which no one profited from our poor health

 

Yes, imagine the innovation we would be seeing.

[Y2HH]

Insurance companies are a separate problem from the actual bottom line medical costs, but they are still an enormous problem and, in my view, serve no real social purpose.

 

But I'd be fine with nationalizing the entire system.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way exonerating the insurance companies...anyone that's dealt with them, be it for health, dental, automobile, or home understands that what they do is grey area illegal. The recent law fixed quite a few of the most glaring problems with health insurance companies, which is a good thing, but it stopped short of anything else...the costs are still rising because it was never the insurance companies making them go up in the first place. Were they part of the equation? Yes...were they the majority of the equation? Nope.

 

I have my reservations about nationalizing a system that drives most of the worlds innovation in that area...but if it could be done while preserving that innovation, I'd be all for it. Also, so much would have to change it might be next to impossible to do it...most of these doctors/surgeons making 500k a year would have to take massive pay cuts...would they?

Edited September 28, 2012 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

You're right that it would be very, very difficult to achieve in this country politically.

 

Would those doctors take those massive pay cuts? If the industry was truly nationalized, would they have any other choice? Med school costs would have to be addressed for that to be practical, though.

[Y2HH]

You're right that it would be very, very difficult to achieve in this country politically.

 

Would those doctors take those massive pay cuts? If the industry was truly nationalized, would they have any other choice? Med school costs would have to be addressed for that to be practical, though.

 

The problem from that comes in where most of them are rich enough to just quit...so the pool of exceptional surgeons/doctors would probably be cut in half, only to be replaced by those of lesser skill. And we have our fair share of "bad" doctors, believe me...I'm sure you've even had a run-in with a few in your life. The aftermath of a change that drastic is incomprehensible...who knows what the fallout would be. I think the only way that ever happens in this country is if this country falls and our government is overthrown.

 

The problem with that, if I'm not mistaken, is that every single time in history a democratic government has been overthrown, it's replaced by a dictatorship. Do we want that?

[StrangeSox]

The problem from that comes in where most of them are rich enough to just quit...so the pool of exceptional surgeons/doctors would probably be cut in half, only to be replaced by those of lesser skill. And we have our fair share of "bad" doctors, believe me...I'm sure you've even had a run-in with a few in your life. The aftermath of a change that drastic is incomprehensible...who knows what the fallout would be. I think the only way that ever happens in this country is if this country falls and our government is overthrown.

 

I don't believe that there would be a significant portion that would "go Galt," so to speak. These doctors and surgeons have a nice income, but they usually couple that with a nice lifestyle. Would you be willing to give up $300k/year for the next decade or two because you're pissed that it won't be $500k a year? I wouldn't. Plus there are other concerns tied in there. People who go into

the field because they're dedicated to helping others wouldn't be likely to give up the career they spent a good portion of their life training for. And there's always the ego aspect of it; surgeons can get treated quite literally like rock stars.

 

The problem with that, if I'm not mistaken, is that every single time in history a democratic government has been overthrown, it's replaced by a dictatorship. Do we want that?

 

This is an interesting question. My initial reaction is "that's probably not 100% the case" but also "people tend to be able to change legitimately democratic governments without having to overthrow them; that's the point of democracy."