OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[Y2HH]

I don't believe that there would be a significant portion that would "go Galt," so to speak. These doctors and surgeons have a nice income, but they usually couple that with a nice lifestyle. Would you be willing to give up $300k/year for the next decade or two because you're pissed that it won't be $500k a year? I wouldn't. Plus there are other concerns tied in there. People who go into

the field because they're dedicated to helping others wouldn't be likely to give up the career they spent a good portion of their life training for. And there's always the ego aspect of it; surgeons can get treated quite literally like rock stars.

 

 

 

This is an interesting question. My initial reaction is "that's probably not 100% the case" but also "people tend to be able to change legitimately democratic governments without having to overthrow them; that's the point of democracy."

 

We don't have a legitimate democracy. We have a two party bastardization of a democracy. The illusion is we have choice. I understand it's just my opinion, but when it comes to choice...we don't have any.

[StrangeSox]

Eh I meant more like Iran being a "democratic republic"

 

edit: going to go post a bunch of stuff related to what you just said in the B. Hussein Obama must be stopped thread.

Edited September 28, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

Insurance companies are a separate problem from the actual bottom line medical costs, but they are still an enormous problem and, in my view, serve no real social purpose.

 

But I'd be fine with nationalizing the entire system.

 

This is idiotic. My first kid "cost" $36,000. My family insurance is less than $300 bucks a month. With insurance, I was able to have a kid without having $36k in the bank to pay for his delivery. If you never, ever have an issue in life, yes, insurance is a waste. But nearly everyone will have a surgery in their life, everyone will have routine medical care later in life. The amount you pay in premiums is dwarfed by the actual medical cost. And that'll only get worse thanks to the government bestowing the responsibility of payment onto the rest of society for those that can't afford it.

[StrangeSox]

This is idiotic. My first kid "cost" $36,000. My family insurance is less than $300 bucks a month. With insurance, I was able to have a kid without having $36k in the bank to pay for his delivery. If you never, ever have an issue in life, yes, insurance is a waste. But nearly everyone will have a surgery in their life, everyone will have routine medical care later in life. The amount you pay in premiums is dwarfed by the actual medical cost. And that'll only get worse thanks to the government bestowing the responsibility of payment onto the rest of society for those that can't afford it.

 

For-profit insurance companies serve no social good as far as I've ever seen. There is nothing that they do that a single-payer system couldn't do, and often couldn't do cheaper and more efficiently. It's a bit silly to think that I meant we should just get rid of all health insurance period when I've always been strongly in favor of a single-payer system here.

[Y2HH]

For-profit insurance companies serve no social good as far as I've ever seen. There is nothing that they do that a single-payer system couldn't do, and often couldn't do cheaper and more efficiently. It's a bit silly to think that I meant we should just get rid of all health insurance period when I've always been strongly in favor of a single-payer system here.

 

...and I'm in favor of time travel. But we don't have that, either.

[StrangeSox]

Assuming that the global economy itself doesn't collapse, I'm willing to wager that we'll have a single-payer system in this country within our lifetimes.

[Jenksismyhero]

Assuming that the global economy itself doesn't collapse, I'm willing to wager that we'll have a single-payer system in this country within our lifetimes.

 

Have you ever had to deal with Medicare? I just don't understand how people think that's a good idea. Medicare times 100 is a nightmare waiting to happen.

[Y2HH]

Assuming that the global economy itself doesn't collapse, I'm willing to wager that we'll have a single-payer system in this country within our lifetimes.

 

Assuming the same, I'm willing to wager time travel will exist within our lifetimes.

 

In which I will become a Looper.

 

And in which I will be forced to kill you when they send back from the future.

 

Sorry.

[StrangeSox]

Have you ever had to deal with Medicare? I just don't understand how people think that's a good idea. Medicare times 100 is a nightmare waiting to happen.

 

Compared to the dreamy world of private insurance companies where millions are left without coverage?

 

A big part of the PITA with Medicare and Medicaid is eligibility. If that were changed to "every citizen," things become a lot clearer.

[Jenksismyhero]

Compared to the dreamy world of private insurance companies where millions are left without coverage?

 

A big part of the PITA with Medicare and Medicaid is eligibility. If that were changed to "every citizen," things become a lot clearer.

 

But you realize Medicare is just as f***ed up as private insurance companies with regard to payment and treatment right? You get both sides with medicare - refusal to pay and/or pay for everything without even thinking about it (i've seen both happen). And the amount of fraud that already exists and extend that to the entire country? That eats up most of your cost savings right there I would bet.

[StrangeSox]

But you realize Medicare is just as f***ed up as private insurance companies with regard to payment and treatment right? You get both sides with medicare - refusal to pay and/or pay for everything without even thinking about it (i've seen both happen). And the amount of fraud that already exists and extend that to the entire country? That eats up most of your cost savings right there I would bet.

 

Well, part of PPACA was cracking down on Medicare fraud. They've increased funding for fraud investigation teams and a big part of that $712B "cut" comes from reducing over-payment. The fraud rate is about 2% iirc, and I'd be interested to see what the private insurance rate is for comparison.

 

I know their overhead rates are much, much lower than private insurance companies. You'd also be reducing the workload at doctors' offices by having one program to comply with instead of dozens or hundreds.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, part of PPACA was cracking down on Medicare fraud. They've increased funding for fraud investigation teams and a big part of that $712B "cut" comes from reducing over-payment. The fraud rate is about 2% iirc, and I'd be interested to see what the private insurance rate is for comparison.

 

I know their overhead rates are much, much lower than private insurance companies. You'd also be reducing the workload at doctors' offices by having one program to comply with instead of dozens or hundreds.

 

Job killer! Think of all the last tax revenue now that doctors don't have to hire as much administrative staff!

 

Seriously though I don't think that's an issue. Doctor's offices don't accept 100 forms of insurance. It's usually a handful of private insurance companies (at most) and medicare. It's not really that difficult and it's already pretty streamlined.

[Jake]

We don't have a legitimate democracy. We have a two party bastardization of a democracy. The illusion is we have choice. I understand it's just my opinion, but when it comes to choice...we don't have any.

 

It is and always has been a republic. Democracy doesn't work and I'm glad we don't have it. The so-called "spread of our democracy" pisses me off so much because that's not what we have. We have a republic that grants full voting rights to its citizens (unless they don't have the means or know-how to get a photo ID).

[StrangeSox]

The republic we have is a form of democracy.

[Iwritecode]

I've often heard that the reason doctors charge so much is because they have to pay a lot for malpractice insurance to protect themselves when they mess something up and get sued.

[StrangeSox]

Malpractice amounts to something like 5% of all medical costs. This includes the insurance, litigation and payouts, iirc. Several states, most recently Texas, have enacted med-mal reforms that limit liability, but there has been no evidence that this has brought down costs.

 

The price of med-mal insurance varies by discipline. Your family doctor isn't going to be paying nearly as much as a OBY-GYN.

[StrangeSox]

This is the reality for many Americans without health insurance:

 

What is that line up there outside the Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena, just across the way from the Coliseum, for? Phineas and Ferb on Ice? Extra USC football tickets? No, but it does involve children and the University of Southern California.

 

See, volunteers from the schools of medicine and dentistry at USC, partnered with the organization Care Harbor, are currently giving free health and dental care to people who come to the L.A. arena. It started yesterday and will continue through Sunday.

 

Oh, the line-sitters? They aren't waiting to get in to see a doctor or a dentist. No, that only began Thusday. That line is from Monday, when they started handing out wristbands so that nearly 5000 people without insurance could get that lump checked or that cavity filled. Especially the latter, since many people who have health insurance don't have dental, the two things oddly not linked by most insurers.

 

People started lining up last Friday, sleeping out so that they could have a chance to see medical professionals. In one of the biggest cities in the United States in the year 2012. Whenever someone talks about people in other countries being "savages" or uncivilized, the Rude Pundit thinks of sights like this:

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2012/09/pho...it-want-to.html

[G&T]

This is the reality for many Americans without health insurance:

 

There's a combination of problems in that instance. I know nothing about California but I represented uninsured people for awhile and usually people simply didn't realize that hospitals routinely give free services or greatly reduced services to uninsured people who don't otherwise qualify for Medicaid. They also tend not to have transportation to the hospital.

 

I'm not making a statement about universal health are. The fact is that most of those people could have seen a doctor and just didn't know it.

[EvilMonkey]

This is the reality for many Americans without health insurance:

Unless you need crowns or root canals, dental work is pretty inexpensive. Give up a few packs of smokes or stop eating out for a few weeks and go get a damn checkup.

[StrangeSox]

"stop eating out"

[EvilMonkey]

"stop eating out"

Yes. $60 for a cleaning/checkup. Stop going to McDonalds for a few weeks and save that cash for a checkup.

[StrangeSox]

Your insight into both health care and poverty is impressive.

[StrangeSox]

You do realize that this isn't strictly a dental check up clinic, right?

[EvilMonkey]

You do realize that this isn't strictly a dental check up clinic, right?

I do realize that. That is why my comment only referenced dental care. You do realize that dental care is actually affordable to those without insurance, right? It is just a matter of choices. And not between rent and a filling, but of some 'extras' and the filling. But I guess you can't have poor people sacrifice anything. They may be stigmatized if they don't have an xbox and iphone like their neighbors.

[StrangeSox]

If by dental care you mean checkups only, then it is affordable for some people without insurance. That is not the full breadth of dental care, let alone health care. And for many, it's not a choice between mcd's or dental care, it literally is a choice between which bill to not pay that month every month and an additional $60 would be a substantial burden.