OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[greg775]

I love your hard data on all of your points, makes it seem much more sane and logical.

 

Seriously, do you need hard data to make my argument true? As an American and (very dissatisfied) Republican who voted for Obama I am VERY frustrated that he can't get anything done. The man simply is a bust. This Obamacare thing is a disaster with him getting so little support for it.

The economy is so bad and companies have downsized so much, I can't see that EVER changing to where companies will significantly increase hiring or pay ever again. Why should they? The economy has been so miserable with unemployment so high and wages so low. I've heard even law firms that once were booming have cut back on things like internships, etc.

 

And you know darn well if Obama could run again, he'd win again for many many reasons. The liberal media would again have a lovefest on Michelle and Barack and the kids and how he's so charming, compared to the Republican zombie candidate. All his lovable intangibles would AGAIN come out during his third election. And he'd still get all the minority vote (Afr. American, Hispanic) and he'd win going away. GOING AWAY. And he's a horrific president. That's why I say, WHAT A COUNTRY! I'm so frustrated.

 

What BILL Clinton said today IMO is true; Republicans want Obama and the country to fail and that's very very sad, and they should be so ashamed of themselves, but there's always been partisanship. Unlike Clinton and Reagan and the Bushes to a certain extent, Obama COULD NOT do anything with the other side. Nothing and thus he's a failure. Whatever happened to lobbying, making deals, whatever TO GET THINGS DONE!?

Edited September 30, 2013 by greg775

[Brian]

Where do you disagree with what I wrote so I can respond?

 

Well, first you speak as if your opinion is total fact.

 

Obamacare is a disaster even though it hasn't gone into effect yet. I'm not saying it's the perfect law, but as someone who has unfortunately been a victim of the health care system, a change was needed and I will wait to see how it works before I pass judgement.

 

And if the law didn't have support, it wouldve been defunded, but it hasn't, 40 plus times.

 

Reps needs to move on from it. It's happening. It's not perfect, but let's see how it goes.

[cabiness42]

16 hours until I'm on indefinite furlough.

[bigruss]

Seriously, do you need hard data to make my argument true? As an American and (very dissatisfied) Republican who voted for Obama I am VERY frustrated that he can't get anything done. The man simply is a bust. This Obamacare thing is a disaster with him getting so little support for it.

The economy is so bad and companies have downsized so much, I can't see that EVER changing to where companies will significantly increase hiring or pay ever again. Why should they? The economy has been so miserable with unemployment so high and wages so low. I've heard even law firms that once were booming have cut back on things like internships, etc.

 

And you know darn well if Obama could run again, he'd win again for many many reasons. The liberal media would again have a lovefest on Michelle and Barack and the kids and how he's so charming, compared to the Republican zombie candidate. All his lovable intangibles would AGAIN come out during his third election. And he'd still get all the minority vote (Afr. American, Hispanic) and he'd win going away. GOING AWAY. And he's a horrific president. That's why I say, WHAT A COUNTRY! I'm so frustrated.

 

What BILL Clinton said today IMO is true; Republicans want Obama and the country to fail and that's very very sad, and they should be so ashamed of themselves, but there's always been partisanship. Unlike Clinton and Reagan and the Bushes to a certain extent, Obama COULD NOT do anything with the other side. Nothing and thus he's a failure. Whatever happened to lobbying, making deals, whatever TO GET THINGS DONE!?

 

Not great, but the economy is improving. But I'm sure your street polls in Lawrence, KS will show differently. There are lots of companies hiring, and in very well paying sectors. But with anything, there is a supply and demand for these jobs. For example, tech unemployment exists around the 3.3% mark, that is REALLY low for today's numbers. Why? Because companies see growth through technology so they are comfortable investing in it.

 

 

 

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Greg is pretty much right. At least on the point that Obama would keep.

winning no matter how bad of a president he is. He's a celebrity.

[Texsox]

The economy is so bad and companies have downsized so much, I can't see that EVER changing to where companies will significantly increase hiring or pay ever again. Why should they? The economy has been so miserable with unemployment so high and wages so low.

 

Do a quick check about corporate profits and then reread your post. Corporations are experiencing all time record profits, and unlike the promises that have been made, they are not hiring or increasing wages. The economy for businesses has never been better.

 

You may recall the argument that we need to cut taxes on the wealthy and corporations and they will reinvest those profits in hiring more workers and increased salaries. That has not happened, which is why I believe those profits should be taxed at a higher rate to encourage hiring.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/business...ed=all&_r=0

[Cknolls]

Do a quick check about corporate profits and then reread your post. Corporations are experiencing all time record profits, and unlike the promises that have been made, they are not hiring or increasing wages. The economy for businesses has never been better.

 

You may recall the argument that we need to cut taxes on the wealthy and corporations and they will reinvest those profits in hiring more workers and increased salaries. That has not happened, which is why I believe those profits should be taxed at a higher rate to encourage hiring.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/business...ed=all&_r=0

 

 

So the Fed keeps rates extremley low and tries to manufacture a recovery via higher asset prices, and a result of that policy is higher corporate profits. And you want to tax those profits? These profits are not due to increased revenue, they are a result of low interest rates being used to float debt to buy back stock to increase EPS. Like everything with this gov't this too is phony. And for these numskulls to say there is no food inflation is insane. Have you seen the size of a Pringles can lately? About 1/3 smaller than the old one but the same price. There is no reason to increase the workforce..

[Reddy]

Seriously, do you need hard data to make my argument true? As an American and (very dissatisfied) Republican who voted for Obama I am VERY frustrated that he can't get anything done. The man simply is a bust. This Obamacare thing is a disaster with him getting so little support for it.

The economy is so bad and companies have downsized so much, I can't see that EVER changing to where companies will significantly increase hiring or pay ever again. Why should they? The economy has been so miserable with unemployment so high and wages so low. I've heard even law firms that once were booming have cut back on things like internships, etc.

 

And you know darn well if Obama could run again, he'd win again for many many reasons. The liberal media would again have a lovefest on Michelle and Barack and the kids and how he's so charming, compared to the Republican zombie candidate. All his lovable intangibles would AGAIN come out during his third election. And he'd still get all the minority vote (Afr. American, Hispanic) and he'd win going away. GOING AWAY. And he's a horrific president. That's why I say, WHAT A COUNTRY! I'm so frustrated.

 

What BILL Clinton said today IMO is true; Republicans want Obama and the country to fail and that's very very sad, and they should be so ashamed of themselves, but there's always been partisanship. Unlike Clinton and Reagan and the Bushes to a certain extent, Obama COULD NOT do anything with the other side. Nothing and thus he's a failure. Whatever happened to lobbying, making deals, whatever TO GET THINGS DONE!?

 

 

you realize the President can't do things without congress right? and that the GOPs in congress stated they would never cooperate with any policy brought forth by Obama right? and this shutdown is EVIDENCE of that fact.

 

let me repeat: WITHOUT A CONGRESS A PRESIDENT CANNOT DO ANYTHING.

 

I don't like Obama, but he had the hardest opposition any president has ever faced in history - an opposition that is willing to SHUT DOWN the government instead of cooperate.

[EvilMonkey]

you realize the President can't do things without congress right? and that the GOPs in congress stated they would never cooperate with any policy brought forth by Obama right? and this shutdown is EVIDENCE of that fact.

 

let me repeat: WITHOUT A CONGRESS A PRESIDENT CANNOT DO ANYTHING.

 

I don't like Obama, but he had the hardest opposition any president has ever faced in history - an opposition that is willing to SHUT DOWN the government instead of cooperate.

He has managed to put the coal industry on the path to extinction without congressional approval. Signing statements, executive orders and directions given to unelected agency officials to steer 'policy' can do an awful lot.

[bmags]

He has managed to put the coal industry on the path to extinction without congressional approval. Signing statements, executive orders and directions given to unelected agency officials to steer 'policy' can do an awful lot.

 

Congress gave the EPA the power to regulate those things.

[Y2HH]

[EvilMonkey]

Congress gave the EPA the power to regulate those things.

And they are acting at the President's behest. Just like the IRS did, whether directly stated or implied.

[bmags]

And they are acting at the President's behest. Just like the IRS did, whether directly stated or implied.

 

Yeah, and that's what presidential elections are for.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, and that's what presidential elections are for.

 

Its funny how that changes with the party in power.

 

It is even funnier listening to some of the same people who fled Indiana when the Republicans at the state level were passing a bunch of legislation they didn't like, to shutdown the things, and who are now outraged that the Republicans shutdown the federal government.

[Reddy]

Its funny how that changes with the party in power.

 

It is even funnier listening to some of the same people who fled Indiana when the Republicans at the state level were passing a bunch of legislation they didn't like, to shutdown the things, and who are now outraged that the Republicans shutdown the federal government.

 

You're not?

[Cknolls]

The exchanges, which went online Tuesday morning, have been riddled with technical difficulties in states across the country. The administration has said that the glitches consumers are encountering will be ironed out by Tuesday afternoon.

 

 

 

 

If you believe this I have some Detroit municipal debt to sell you at par. GMAFB... This is why what the Republicans are doing is assinine. Let this get implemented and let it fail from its own weight.

[Reddy]

The exchanges, which went online Tuesday morning, have been riddled with technical difficulties in states across the country. The administration has said that the glitches consumers are encountering will be ironed out by Tuesday afternoon.

 

 

 

 

If you believe this I have some Detroit municipal debt to sell you at par. GMAFB... This is why what the Republicans are doing is assinine. Let this get implemented and let it fail from its own weight.

and if it succeeds, the GOP is dead. they know it, and that's why they're acting like petulant children to try and stop it.

[Texsox]

So the Fed keeps rates extremley low and tries to manufacture a recovery via higher asset prices, and a result of that policy is higher corporate profits. And you want to tax those profits? These profits are not due to increased revenue, they are a result of low interest rates being used to float debt to buy back stock to increase EPS. Like everything with this gov't this too is phony. And for these numskulls to say there is no food inflation is insane. Have you seen the size of a Pringles can lately? About 1/3 smaller than the old one but the same price. There is no reason to increase the workforce..

 

We've steadily reduced the top tax rates because these are the "job creators". That is how every tax cut has been sold. Now we see record profits and no hiring. So why continue to accept the "if they have profits, they will hire" argument?

[Texsox]

and if it succeeds, the GOP is dead. they know it, and that's why they're acting like petulant children to try and stop it.

 

That's when it becomes the Affordable Care Act and not Obamacare

[NorthSideSox72]

One thing I think we'll find in terms of "job-killing" by Obamacare is, there will be very little of that for corporations of significant size (say, a few hundred people or more, who already have infrastructure to handle the regs), or with 95% of small businesses (which are well under the 50 person mark). But what you will have, I believe, is a weird blip in the curve between about 40 and 100 people in a company. For those firms, the reg requirements and paperwork, as well as in some cases pure cost, will be difficult. That means some companies under 50 may aim to stay under 50 if at all possible, unless they are ready to make a big burst. And companies 50+ and less than a couple hundred will have huge burdens that may effect how many people they can employ.

 

The result of this is two-fold. First is the actual job losses (or more accurately, lack of jobs created), which hits in the short term. But in the long term, you are creating an artificial horizon, which essentially becomes a barrier to growth. Most large companies started very small, and at some point transited through the 50-100 people level. What will equivalent companies do now, when they approach that line? Some may decide to go on as normal. Others may hesitate. I doubt it will be 100% of either. But that sticky number becomes an impediment to growth.

 

This is not to say that makes ObamaCare totally invalid or all bad - it is just a subtle point I haven't seen discussed much, but which I think may cause issues down the road. We'll have to see if the good parts of the law outweigh the bad.

 

[Balta1701]

One thing I think we'll find in terms of "job-killing" by Obamacare is, there will be very little of that for corporations of significant size (say, a few hundred people or more, who already have infrastructure to handle the regs), or with 95% of small businesses (which are well under the 50 person mark). But what you will have, I believe, is a weird blip in the curve between about 40 and 100 people in a company. For those firms, the reg requirements and paperwork, as well as in some cases pure cost, will be difficult. That means some companies under 50 may aim to stay under 50 if at all possible, unless they are ready to make a big burst. And companies 50+ and less than a couple hundred will have huge burdens that may effect how many people they can employ.

 

The result of this is two-fold. First is the actual job losses (or more accurately, lack of jobs created), which hits in the short term. But in the long term, you are creating an artificial horizon, which essentially becomes a barrier to growth. Most large companies started very small, and at some point transited through the 50-100 people level. What will equivalent companies do now, when they approach that line? Some may decide to go on as normal. Others may hesitate. I doubt it will be 100% of either. But that sticky number becomes an impediment to growth.

 

This is not to say that makes ObamaCare totally invalid or all bad - it is just a subtle point I haven't seen discussed much, but which I think may cause issues down the road. We'll have to see if the good parts of the law outweigh the bad.

There is abig benefit to note as well...At least one friend of mine runs an internet business and his premiums will be dropping by $1000 a month starting in January.

 

The U.S. has long lagged other countries in the number of people who start their own businesses. It's entirely sensible that a big part of that has been people being locked into work they don't want because it's the only way they can get health insurance. Fixing the individual market makes it possible for those people who want to start a business to actually do so.

[greg775]

Any Limbaugh listeners? What's his take been on this govtment shutdown and the start of Obamacare? Has he been derisive as usual or has he blasted some of the Republicans? I dont see how he can't go on unless he changes his schtick (maybe he has). Republicans are laughable and I've been a Republican a long time.

[Texsox]

I see some companies opening a subsiderary instead of making the jump. A 25 person sales, marketing, and research company and a 40 person manufacturing plant.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I see some companies opening a subsiderary instead of making the jump. A 25 person sales, marketing, and research company and a 40 person manufacturing plant.

Not sure that flies. Depends on how the law is written, exact phraseology used.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

There is abig benefit to note as well...At least one friend of mine runs an internet business and his premiums will be dropping by $1000 a month starting in January.

 

The U.S. has long lagged other countries in the number of people who start their own businesses. It's entirely sensible that a big part of that has been people being locked into work they don't want because it's the only way they can get health insurance. Fixing the individual market makes it possible for those people who want to start a business to actually do so.

You are talking about an entrepeneur, that's entirely different from what I was discussing. There are real benefits like the one you describe, but that has nothing to do with the artificial horizon problem.