OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[StrangeSox]

Whether or not insurance companies are the sole problem, they are clearly, based on the real-world experience of many other countries, an unnecessary added cost. Health care access can be and is subsidized directly by the government in almost every developed country in the world, and even a lot of developing countries.

[StrangeSox]

 

 

For instance, in Alabama, you can't get Medicaid if your income exceeds 23 percent of the poverty level, or $4,500 for a family of three. Just think about that for a second. Do you think you could find a place to live, pay your bills, and feed your family on that income? But the state of Alabama says if you're that rich, you can afford to buy health insurance.

 

A major cause of the skewing was the part of the SC ruling that allowed states to reject the Medicaid expansion.

[mr_genius]

Obozocare...shipping jobs overseas and giving tax cuts to billionaires

 

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.c...rdable-care-act

 

more anti-middle class Obama regime attacks

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-andrzej..._b_3936877.html

 

Wow. and Obozo is fighting for the middle class? Can we all agree... he is with the 1%?

Edited October 5, 2013 by mr_genius

[greg775]

Obozocare...shipping jobs overseas and giving tax cuts to billionaires

 

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.c...rdable-care-act

 

more anti-middle class Obama regime attacks

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-andrzej..._b_3936877.html

 

Wow. and Obozo is fighting for the middle class? Can we all agree... he is with the 1%?

 

Obama is a celebrity president. Nothing he does affects his popularity negatively. He's one of the most popular presidents ever with the masses who wish they could vote for him another four years, then another. If he could keep running, he'd be president another 20 years minimum. You'd think a guy with his type of popularity could, uh, actually lead somebody.

Did you see clip of Melanie Griffith today? She said we should fire all the politicans over the shutdown. Then she waved the cameraman back and said, except Obama, he's "cool."

Our country I'm afraid is beyond hope like caufield wrote. We're going to be passed by many nations in the next 50 years. So many things wrong with our politicians and our people.

Edited October 5, 2013 by greg775

[Texsox]

Health care is a necessity, as much as eating. Why is the insurance companies' profits added to the health care system? What value do they actually serve to the consumer? Once we can agree on those answers, we begin to create a health care system that everyone can agree on. But, we can never agree on their role. Currently our system relies on people who pay insurance premiums and remain healthy to finance those people paying premiums and needing treatments while ignoring the people who cannot pay and do not have insurance. That inequality was accepted by damn near everyone for a long time. Now, when we say these taxpayers that remain healthy will be financing these other taxpayers who need health care, people rage against the new system.

 

The current system worked great in the 1950s when an office visit was a couple hours wages or you died before running up huge bills. We need a new system that fits 2013. I truly wish the GOP had a proposal that wasn't "this is working just fine, no need to change". People were smart enough to know that meant the system was working just fine for the MOSTLY white, middle and upper class, GOP base.

 

I forgot who said it, we have the party of bad ideas versus the party of no ideas.

 

 

[cabiness42]

Obama is a celebrity president. Nothing he does affects his popularity negatively. He's one of the most popular presidents ever with the masses who wish they could vote for him another four years, then another. If he could keep running, he'd be president another 20 years minimum. You'd think a guy with his type of popularity could, uh, actually lead somebody.

Did you see clip of Melanie Griffith today? She said we should fire all the politicans over the shutdown. Then she waved the cameraman back and said, except Obama, he's "cool."

Our country I'm afraid is beyond hope like caufield wrote. We're going to be passed by many nations in the next 50 years. So many things wrong with our politicians and our people.

 

If you feel that way now, just wait until the next 8 years.

 

[mr_genius]

Obama is a celebrity president. Nothing he does affects his popularity negatively. He's one of the most popular presidents ever with the masses who wish they could vote for him another four years, then another. If he could keep running, he'd be president another 20 years minimum. You'd think a guy with his type of popularity could, uh, actually lead somebody.

Did you see clip of Melanie Griffith today? She said we should fire all the politicans over the shutdown. Then she waved the cameraman back and said, except Obama, he's "cool."

Our country I'm afraid is beyond hope like caufield wrote. We're going to be passed by many nations in the next 50 years. So many things wrong with our politicians and our people.

 

it really is a bad situation. but Obama is sinking in the polls

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-D...b-Approval.aspx

 

51% disapprove and 41% approve. as his attacks on the middle class intensify, i think we will seem him dip much further. hopefully by the end of his term he will be politically radioactive, no politician will want to be associated with his corrupt, anti-middle class, regime.

Edited October 5, 2013 by mr_genius

[Y2HH]

I forgot who said it, we have the party of bad ideas versus the party of no ideas.

 

[greg775]

Health care is a necessity, as much as eating. Why is the insurance companies' profits added to the health care system? What value do they actually serve to the consumer? Once we can agree on those answers, we begin to create a health care system that everyone can agree on. But, we can never agree on their role. Currently our system relies on people who pay insurance premiums and remain healthy to finance those people paying premiums and needing treatments while ignoring the people who cannot pay and do not have insurance. That inequality was accepted by damn near everyone for a long time. Now, when we say these taxpayers that remain healthy will be financing these other taxpayers who need health care, people rage against the new system.

 

The current system worked great in the 1950s when an office visit was a couple hours wages or you died before running up huge bills. We need a new system that fits 2013. I truly wish the GOP had a proposal that wasn't "this is working just fine, no need to change". People were smart enough to know that meant the system was working just fine for the MOSTLY white, middle and upper class, GOP base.

 

I forgot who said it, we have the party of bad ideas versus the party of no ideas.

Great post.

 

it really is a bad situation. but Obama is sinking in the polls

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-D...b-Approval.aspx

 

51% disapprove and 41% approve. as his attacks on the middle class intensify, i think we will seem him dip much further. hopefully by the end of his term he will be politically radioactive, no politician will want to be associated with his corrupt, anti-middle class, regime.

 

I don't care about polls regarding Obama. He's fallen in polls before. I stand by my comment if he could keep running, he'd keep winning. Once we get near election time his media minions kick in and suddenly Obama is greater than sliced bread. it's really sickening. The man cannot lead.

[Texsox]

A falling tide lowers all boats. At this point every elected leader is falling or will be falling.

[ptatc]

Whether or not insurance companies are the sole problem, they are clearly, based on the real-world experience of many other countries, an unnecessary added cost. Health care access can be and is subsidized directly by the government in almost every developed country in the world, and even a lot of developing countries.

Alot of this however is a continuous circle pretty much exclusive to the US. Much of it is the legal system. Unlimited tort and lawsuits force the medical practitioner to have highly priced insurance for protection. Insurance companies payout far too much on some cases. These are the same insurance companies which own many of the health care insurance companies. They take loses in one area and make it up in others. One sure way to lower insurance costs in the US and where it all should start is tort reform. I've been an expert witness in many cases where the lawsuits where absolutely stupid yet insurance companies had to pay. There are many legitimate ones as well but too many stupid ones.

[ptatc]

Instead of 'we don't help' how about 'college is just too damn expensive'. Put the blame right where it belongs, at the people providing it. it costs too much. Figure a way to make it cost too much instead of using taxpayer monies to go to pay for people to go to college.

The reason the cost is going up is that the taxpayers are no longer paying for education. The saying is that we used to be a state school, then we were a state supported school and now we are a state associated school. When I started working at the school the state supported 80% of our budget. Now it is down to under 20%. The state is giving almost as much support to private institutions that it does to "state" schools now. The schools have been forced to find other ways to get money. They can't raise tuition much each year because the state put a cap on that. So they raise "mandatory fees" and enroll many out of state students because the tuition limits don't apply to them.

Edited October 7, 2013 by ptatc

[Jenksismyhero]

Obozocare...shipping jobs overseas and giving tax cuts to billionaires

 

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.c...rdable-care-act

 

more anti-middle class Obama regime attacks

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-andrzej..._b_3936877.html

 

Wow. and Obozo is fighting for the middle class? Can we all agree... he is with the 1%?

 

Those stories literally sicken me. This country is so f***ed.

[Balta1701]

Alot of this however is a continuous circle pretty much exclusive to the US. Much of it is the legal system. Unlimited tort and lawsuits force the medical practitioner to have highly priced insurance for protection. Insurance companies payout far too much on some cases. These are the same insurance companies which own many of the health care insurance companies. They take loses in one area and make it up in others. One sure way to lower insurance costs in the US and where it all should start is tort reform. I've been an expert witness in many cases where the lawsuits where absolutely stupid yet insurance companies had to pay. There are many legitimate ones as well but too many stupid ones.

There are a couple more problems buried in there you didn't note. First of all, several states, notably Texas, have undertaken severe tort reform (since lawyers were a democratic constituency this makes sense). The end result in terms of behavior of doctors or insurance companies is pretty much the same as in other states; there may be a small difference in total costs but it's less than 1% and small enough that it's hard to definitively say the effect is distinct from zero.

 

Second...the U.S. has way too bloody much malpractice. The stats are hard to figure out but I'm convinced the best data says the U.S. does much worse on this front than most other countries. The large fraction of malpractice cases in the U.S. come from doctors who have problems more than once and are difficult to discipline thanks to protections associated with the AMA and the unwillingness of U.S. medical providers to institute reforms that significantly cut malpractice rates.

[Soxbadger]

Alot of this however is a continuous circle pretty much exclusive to the US. Much of it is the legal system. Unlimited tort and lawsuits force the medical practitioner to have highly priced insurance for protection. Insurance companies payout far too much on some cases. These are the same insurance companies which own many of the health care insurance companies. They take loses in one area and make it up in others. One sure way to lower insurance costs in the US and where it all should start is tort reform. I've been an expert witness in many cases where the lawsuits where absolutely stupid yet insurance companies had to pay. There are many legitimate ones as well but too many stupid ones.

 

Greatest myth ever perpetrated on the American people is that its the lawyers who are evil.

 

Just as an fyi, in Illinois you cant just file a medical mal case against a dr. You need to have another dr review the case file and determine that there is merit. In comparison, anyone can file a lawsuit against a lawyer for any reason.

 

http://www.passenlaw.com/blog/trucking-acc...lpractice-cases

 

That the affiant has consulted with a medical professional who the affiant believes is knowledgeable in the relevant issues involved in the action, has practiced or taught within 5 years in the same area of health care or medicine that is at issue in the particular action, and meets the standards required of all medical expert witnesses set forth in section 8-2501;

 

That the medical expert has reviewed the medical records and determined in a written report that there is a “reasonable and meritorious cause for filing of such action”, and that the affiant has concluded based on the health professional’s review and consultation that there is a reasonable and meritorious cause for filing the action.

 

Why would we ever cap the actual damages someone can receive?

 

[StrangeSox]

Alot of this however is a continuous circle pretty much exclusive to the US. Much of it is the legal system. Unlimited tort and lawsuits force the medical practitioner to have highly priced insurance for protection. Insurance companies payout far too much on some cases. These are the same insurance companies which own many of the health care insurance companies. They take loses in one area and make it up in others. One sure way to lower insurance costs in the US and where it all should start is tort reform. I've been an expert witness in many cases where the lawsuits where absolutely stupid yet insurance companies had to pay. There are many legitimate ones as well but too many stupid ones.

Tort reform has been tried in the US in several states. The results are negligible. Multiple studies have found that the costs of medical torts are pretty typically overstated.

 

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpres...-of-proportion/

[CrimsonWeltall]

Second...the U.S. has way too bloody much malpractice. The stats are hard to figure out but I'm convinced the best data says the U.S. does much worse on this front than most other countries. The large fraction of malpractice cases in the U.S. come from doctors who have problems more than once and are difficult to discipline thanks to protections associated with the AMA and the unwillingness of U.S. medical providers to institute reforms that significantly cut malpractice rates.

 

I recently read about a surgeon in Texas who was basically killing and paralyzing numerous patients because he was so damn awful at surgery that he'd frequently cut things that weren't supposed to be cut. Doctors were constantly complaining about him. It took the Texas Medical Board years to stop this guy because they're such a weak agency.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/09/...medical-boards/

[Balta1701]

I recently read about a surgeon in Texas who was basically killing and paralyzing numerous patients because he was so damn awful at surgery that he'd frequently cut things that weren't supposed to be cut. Doctors were constantly complaining about him. It took the Texas Medical Board years to stop this guy because they're such a weak agency.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/09/...medical-boards/

I'm proud to learn that this person graduated from the hospital I can see as I walk to the gym.

[Jenksismyhero]

Greatest myth ever perpetrated on the American people is that its the lawyers who are evil.

 

Just as an fyi, in Illinois you cant just file a medical mal case against a dr. You need to have another dr review the case file and determine that there is merit. In comparison, anyone can file a lawsuit against a lawyer for any reason.

 

http://www.passenlaw.com/blog/trucking-acc...lpractice-cases

 

 

 

Why would we ever cap the actual damages someone can receive?

 

Having done lots of med mal cases, that requirement is a good step, but it's hardly a barrier.

[Soxbadger]

Having done lots of med mal cases, that requirement is a good step, but it's hardly a barrier.

 

Im not saying its a barrier. Obviously there are pay to play Doctors. But the entire argument was faulty. It was why do insurance companies pay out on cases that may not be very strong. Its about risk. And the risk of a case where a dr is already willing to testify that there may have been a lapse in care is very high. You have generally sympathetic plaintiff versus a corp.

 

Thats not just medical mal, thats a lot of cases where companies are forced to settle just because it makes more economic sense then the risk of trial.

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Im not saying its a barrier. Obviously there are pay to play Doctors. But the entire argument was faulty. It was why do insurance companies pay out on cases that may not be very strong. Its about risk. And the risk of a case where a dr is already willing to testify that there may have been a lapse in care is very high. You have generally sympathetic plaintiff versus a corp.

 

Thats not just medical mal, thats a lot of cases where companies are forced to settle just because it makes more economic sense then the risk of trial.

 

Yeah I tell all of my defense clients that the two outcomes of the case is losing small or losing big. There is no winning as a defendant in our system because even if the case is absolute s*** you still have to pay me to defend you.

 

You want to talk about a waste of money, a bunch of 25k cost of defense settlements put a dent in the bottom line.

[ptatc]

Greatest myth ever perpetrated on the American people is that its the lawyers who are evil.

 

Just as an fyi, in Illinois you cant just file a medical mal case against a dr. You need to have another dr review the case file and determine that there is merit. In comparison, anyone can file a lawsuit against a lawyer for any reason.

 

http://www.passenlaw.com/blog/trucking-acc...lpractice-cases

 

 

 

Why would we ever cap the actual damages someone can receive?

Not saying lawyers. The laws need to change. I've been involved with many of the reviews. Just because another one agrees doesn't mean it's valid. I think it goes back to the quality of the physicians or the laws.

[ptatc]

I recently read about a surgeon in Texas who was basically killing and paralyzing numerous patients because he was so damn awful at surgery that he'd frequently cut things that weren't supposed to be cut. Doctors were constantly complaining about him. It took the Texas Medical Board years to stop this guy because they're such a weak agency.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/09/...medical-boards/

I agree that most are valid. Doesn't mean that many are that shouldn't be brought.

[Soxbadger]

Ive told my friends that they could probably be pretty successful if they just filed small claims lawsuits and were willing to settle for nuisance value.

[ptatc]

Tort reform has been tried in the US in several states. The results are negligible. Multiple studies have found that the costs of medical torts are pretty typically overstated.

 

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpres...-of-proportion/

I've been involved in far too many for it to be too overstated and that's just my limited experience in Illinois. I'm convinced that the laws need to change because the greatest cost in medicine is the malpractice insurance.