OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[StrangeSox]

While a quandary many of you are unable to deal with, these companies are just that, companies...and they have no moral obligations as such.

 

We fully understand that, which is why we want a socialized system.

[Y2HH]

We fully understand that, which is why we want a socialized system.

 

You aren't getting one.

[Jake]

Yes, we're happy to have to wade through a bunch of self-serving BS when we're buying a cell phone, but we think it is bad for society when people are trying to hoodwink us out of being alive

Edited November 4, 2013 by Jake

[Y2HH]

No, it's not. Even the plans from the same company were cheaper on the exchange website.

 

It's like taking your Ford to the dealership and they tell you that your car's brakes are shot and will cost $1000 to replace, when they're advertising on a website that new brakes are $500. It's really shady.

 

Edit: for the record, BCBS of North Carolina's prices listed on the exchange website were the same as the quote they sent me in the mail as part of my "your current plan is going away" letter. The letter also said that the quote was for the most similar plan, but that other plans were available and I should look them up.

 

I completely understand that, but you left off the final part of my post -- and my post doesn't mean much without it.

 

You are, once again, wishing companies had such moral obligations, and they do not.

[StrangeSox]

You aren't getting one.

 

Not yet, anyway. I don't think anyone is under the impression otherwise.

[StrangeSox]

I completely understand that, but you left off the final part of my post -- and my post doesn't mean much without it.

 

You are, once again, wishing companies had such moral obligations, and they do not.

 

But your Ford/Chevy example still makes no sense. And I don't see Crimson (or anyone else) wishing or naively believing that for-profit private companies have some moral obligation to consumers. Recognizing that general principle doesn't mean any journalism to show it in practice is stupid.

[Y2HH]

But your Ford/Chevy example still makes no sense. And I don't see Crimson (or anyone else) wishing or naively believing that for-profit private companies have some moral obligation to consumers. Recognizing that general principle doesn't mean any journalism to show it in practice is stupid.

 

It makes absolute sense.

 

If I own a Ford dealership, my job is to sell you the car at the highest possible price. Even if I have another dealership selling the same cars for less, my job isn't to get you to go there first...first I'd like to sell you something for 20k, and if I can't get 20k, fine...I'll take 15k at the other place. If making 5k more off of you is the difference in you being too lazy to do some research, so be it...that's on you, not me.

 

I'm not morally obligated to save you anything.

 

Do that part yourself.

 

The same can be said for in-store coupons at practically ANY store you visit. Or hell, even worse, those Preferred cards at some grocery stores...the price is 5$ with a free preferred card, but 8$ without that same free card. It's not the stores fault if you're too lazy to get a card, regardless of how f***ing stupid it is.

 

This practice is all around, and here you are thinking it's something new.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

This practice is all around, and here you are thinking it's something new.

 

Nobody is thinking this is something new. I'm not sure why you're being so smug and assuming that anyone is thinking that.

[Y2HH]

Nobody is thinking this is something new. I'm not sure why you're being so smug and assuming that anyone is thinking that.

 

I don't know what I'd be without my smugness.

[DukeNukeEm]

WaPo has another story digging into what exactly went wrong with Healthcare.gov and why

 

HealthCare.gov: How political fear was pitted against technical needs

I really cannot believe youd read something like this then continue believing the government is capable of doing anything right.

[NorthSideSox72]

I really cannot believe youd read something like this then continue believing the government is capable of doing anything right.

And I really cannot believe you read something like this and assume it means nothing the government does is right. Clearly, they do many things right. And many things wrong. The website rollout for ObamaCare was wrong, wrong, wrong. No one is arguing otherwise. But that is not the same as saying nothing can ever be right, which is absurd on its face.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I really cannot believe youd read something like this then continue believing the government is capable of doing anything right.

 

I don't know how you could read a thread like this and think that truckers are capable of even the simplest thoughts and should be allowed to operate on our roadways.

[Balta1701]

I don't know how you could read a thread like this and think that truckers are capable of even the simplest thoughts and should be allowed to operate on our roadways.

Not necessary. Baiting. Seriously.

[StrangeSox]

I thought it was a sufficiently over-the-top statement showing how that logic leads to absurd conclusions. I have nothing against truck drivers and think it's a fine job that takes people from all walks of life.

[DukeNukeEm]

And I really cannot believe you read something like this and assume it means nothing the government does is right. Clearly, they do many things right. And many things wrong. The website rollout for ObamaCare was wrong, wrong, wrong. No one is arguing otherwise. But that is not the same as saying nothing can ever be right, which is absurd on its face.

But it just shows how these people in government cannot even begin something without bureaucratic expansion that just rewards the politically savvy with jobs they have no technical qualifications for. I mean Obama was convinced that one woman was like bred to implement Obamacare... how could he be so catastrophicallly wrong?

 

 

I don't know how you could read a thread like this and think that truckers are capable of even the simplest thoughts and should be allowed to operate on our roadways.

Meh, average point. A little bonus for making it personally relatable. Those SoCal mexican drivers are pretty lawless, about as bad as thebeastern European and Somali outfits out of Chicago. I kinda believe trucks should be held to a higher standard but in the informal polls I take when Im ultra bored about 40% of 4 wheelers are doing something on their phone instead of driving. Its bad.

[StrangeSox]

But it just shows how these people in government cannot even begin something without bureaucratic expansion that just rewards the politically savvy with jobs they have no technical qualifications for. I mean Obama was convinced that one woman was like bred to implement Obamacare... how could he be so catastrophicallly wrong?

 

The technical implementation of one (large, public, important) part of one law going very poorly in the first couple of months does not prove in anyway whatsoever that all government projects are failures.

[Balta1701]

The technical implementation of one (large, public, important) part of one law going very poorly in the first couple of months does not prove in anyway whatsoever that all government projects are failures.

To be fair...after Lehman I do keep everything locked up in an explosive-wired vault under my bed...I mean, I don't know how anyone could reasonably trust a financial institution again. I'd expect anyone who is as angry as me about this website to be doing the same with regards to the financial industry.

[Texsox]

But it just shows how these people in government cannot even begin something without bureaucratic expansion that just rewards the politically savvy with jobs they have no technical qualifications for.

 

This really doesn't make sense.

 

The website was built by CGI Group, under contract, not civil service employees. CGI is a large international firm with experience in building similiar systems. They were the low bidder, as required by law. There are also several other firms, such as Quality Software Services out of Maryland that were awarded part of the program. What jobs went to politically savvy individuals with no technical qualifications and why would a company like CGI employ them?

 

 

 

 

[DukeNukeEm]

To be fair...after Lehman I do keep everything locked up in an explosive-wired vault under my bed...I mean, I don't know how anyone could reasonably trust a financial institution again. I'd expect anyone who is as angry as me about this website to be doing the same with regards to the financial industry.

I dont trust them and I in constant shock as to the sheer number of people who still do.

[StrangeSox]

This really doesn't make sense.

 

The website was built by CGI Group, under contract, not civil service employees. CGI is a large international firm with experience in building similiar systems. They were the low bidder, as required by law. There are also several other firms, such as Quality Software Services out of Maryland that were awarded part of the program. What jobs went to politically savvy individuals with no technical qualifications and why would a company like CGI employ them?

 

 

Ok I don't know if this happened here or not, but big companies hire politically savvy people (ex-legislators, ex-regulators, etc.) all the time. It gives them contacts and influence. Something like 40% of legislators move right on over into lobbying these days and get a pretty nice paycheck for it.

 

Low-bid public contracting results in all sorts of horrible projects that inevitably cost much more and take much longer than taking an actually reasonable bid would.

[Y2HH]

I dont trust them and I in constant shock as to the sheer number of people who still do.

 

I don't trust them, either, but the alternative is to never make any investments.

 

So, I'll take my chances with my investments vs locking money under a bed.

[DukeNukeEm]

The technical implementation of one (large, public, important) part of one law going very poorly in the first couple of months does not prove in anyway whatsoever that all government projects are failures.

I'm sure all those other projects afforded a small fraction of Obamacares priority are very well managed with the best and brightest. Only the laws that hold an entire presidential legacy in the sway get staffed by the lazy, incompetent and wasteful.

 

These were the best people they had, and once they finally fix the website (which they will eventually) we can be left totally exposed to the horrors that lie behind it. In a way this broken piece of s*** site that would get laughed off of Geocities is like a gatekeeper to unknown horrors. Once you get past it down you go into the rabbit hole of bureaucratic hell.

[DukeNukeEm]

Ok I don't know if this happened here or not, but big companies hire politically savvy people (ex-legislators, ex-regulators, etc.) all the time. It gives them contacts and influence. Something like 40% of legislators move right on over into lobbying these days and get a pretty nice paycheck for it.

 

Low-bid public contracting results in all sorts of horrible projects that inevitably cost much more and take much longer than taking an actually reasonable bid would.

Government: It works, we swear it.

[Balta1701]

I don't trust them, either, but the alternative is to never make any investments.

 

So, I'll take my chances with my investments vs locking money under a bed.

And the alternative here is 45 million+ uninsured. I'll take my chances with a faulty website versus having to go through another time period uninsured when things actually go wrong with the health of a family member.

[StrangeSox]

I'm sure all those other projects afforded a small fraction of Obamacares priority are very well managed with the best and brightest. Only the laws that hold an entire presidential legacy in the sway get staffed by the lazy, incompetent and wasteful.

 

I don't think you read the same WaPo article I did? Regardless, plenty of projects and programs are well-managed and staffed by competent and dedicated professionals.

 

These were the best people they had, and once they finally fix the website (which they will eventually) we can be left totally exposed to the horrors that lie behind it. In a way this broken piece of s*** site that would get laughed off of Geocities is like a gatekeeper to unknown horrors. Once you get past it down you go into the rabbit hole of bureaucratic hell.

 

Oh so you'd be criticizing the government regardless of what happened then.