OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[DukeNukeEm]

I don't think you read the same WaPo article I did?

Its the same article where half the bureaucracy knew it was broken and secretly hoped its impending failures would be brought to light wgile the other half covered it up to avoid looking bad in front of the president, right?

 

 

Regardless, plenty of projects and programs are well-managed and staffed by competent and dedicated professionals.

I know, thankfully for now people are allowed to just do things themselves without the government getting involved.

 

[StrangeSox]

I know, thankfully for now people are allowed to just do things themselves without the government getting involved.

 

The government doesn't get involved in government projects and programs? Weird.

 

Every second of your working day involves government projects, programs and regulations, duke.

Edited November 4, 2013 by StrangeSox

[DukeNukeEm]

The government doesn't get involved in government projects and programs? Weird.

 

Every second of your working day involves government projects, programs and regulations, duke.

I was alluding to projects that occur (typically much more efficiently) outside the public realm.

 

And yes, Im being made abundantly aware of those regulations right now as I cant drive more than an hour more today despite only taking about 2 hours to get into Cleveland after waking up. Im going to get like 150 miles today, thanks governmet! <3 u

[Balta1701]

I was alluding to projects that occur (typically much more efficiently) outside the public realm.

 

And yes, Im being made abundantly aware of those regulations right now as I cant drive more than an hour more today despite only taking about 2 hours to get into Cleveland after waking up. Im going to get like 150 miles today, thanks governmet!

Yeah, I'm pretty darn happy with government regulations that limit the amount of hours a trucker can spend on the road in a row.

[Y2HH]

And the alternative here is 45 million+ uninsured. I'll take my chances with a faulty website versus having to go through another time period uninsured when things actually go wrong with the health of a family member.

 

And you won't hear me argue.

[Soxfest]

Obooooooomacare is a joke so far.

[DukeNukeEm]

Yeah, I'm pretty darn happy with government regulations that limit the amount of hours a trucker can spend on the road in a row.

Look Im honestly not trying to belittle you for not knowing how DOT Hours of Service regs work, but they often have nothing to do with limiting how many hours in a row I can work. Its nonsense they got away with enacting because the vast majority of Americans have no idea what its like doing this job but very strong opinions on how it should be done.

[Balta1701]

Look Im honestly not trying to belittle you for not knowing how DOT Hours of Service regs work, but they often have nothing to do with limiting how many hours in a row I can work. Its nonsense they got away with enacting because the vast majority of Americans have no idea what its like doing this job but very strong opinions on how it should be done.

A daily 14 hour limit, an 11 hour consecutive driving limit, and a 60 hour per 7 day or 70 hour per 8 day set of limits with mandatory time off afterwards and seemingly reasonable exemptions for bad conditions and a requirement that hours are logged daily? This all seems perfectly reasonable to me and no, I don't want tired people driving on the road whether it's truckers or not.

[DukeNukeEm]

A daily 14 hour limit, an 11 hour consecutive driving limit, and a 60 hour per 7 day or 70 hour per 8 day set of limits with mandatory time off afterwards and seemingly reasonable exemptions for bad conditions and a requirement that hours are logged daily? This all seems perfectly reasonable to me and no, I don't want tired people driving on the road whether it's truckers or not.

The 11 and 14 are hardly relevant. Its the 70 hour clock thats a killer. I can sleep 10 hours, spend an hour with breakfast and be totally ready to go but only have 2 hours of legal drive time.

 

You also misunderstood the 11 and 14, the 14 is a rolling clock that doesnt stop. I could drive 2 miles and do nothing for 14 hours and be outlawed from driving anymore. The 11 is total drive time, and itll never be continous because I must take a break every 8 hours max.

 

Look, some of the stuff you defend occasionally has some merit, but the HOS regs are completely inane and do major harm to everyone from O/O's to company drivers. The idea makes sense, but the application is loony toons.

Edited November 4, 2013 by DukeNukeEm

[Balta1701]

The 11 and 14 are hardly relevant. Its the 70 hour clock thats a killer. I can sleep 10 hours, spend an hour with breakfast and be totally ready to go but only have 2 hours of legal drive time.

 

You also misunderstood the 11 and 14, the 14 is a rolling clock that doesnt stop. I could drive 2 miles and do nothing for 14 hours and be outlawed from driving anymore. The 11 is total drive time, and itll never be continous because I must take a break every 8 hours max.

 

Look, some of the stuff you defend occasionally has some merit, but the HOS regs are completely inane and do major harm to everyone from O/O's to company drivers. The idea makes sense, but the application is loony toons.

This all sounds just fine to me and if it was any less strict I think even you could see how companies would be happy to take advantage of it to over-push their employees.

[Cknolls]

Special Investigation: How Insurers Are Hiding Obamacare Benefits From Customers

So she had a family plan and that morphed into an individual plan? Her daughter is on Medicaid , which I'm sure will provide the same coverage as the mother's former plan. And what about her husband?

[StrangeSox]

I think individual is meant to distinguish from group plans, not family or single person.

[Texsox]

This all sounds just fine to me and if it was any less strict I think even you could see how companies would be happy to take advantage of it to over-push their employees.

 

Which is why the rules were revamped after deregulation in 1980. Prior to that pricing was fixed. Once compenies were allowed to set their own prices, the obvious way to increase profits was to force drivers to drive longer hours and at higher speeds. The work hours were put in place with a lot of industry involvement, some would call it lobbying with high priced former government employees.

[cabiness42]

I was alluding to projects that occur (typically much more efficiently) outside the public realm.

 

And yes, Im being made abundantly aware of those regulations right now as I cant drive more than an hour more today despite only taking about 2 hours to get into Cleveland after waking up. Im going to get like 150 miles today, thanks governmet! <3 u

 

So the problem is that the government overregulates your work hours, and not that the government isn't building a better road that allows you to drive much farther in 2 hours?

 

Got it.

 

[Balta1701]

Which is why the rules were revamped after deregulation in 1980. Prior to that pricing was fixed. Once compenies were allowed to set their own prices, the obvious way to increase profits was to force drivers to drive longer hours and at higher speeds. The work hours were put in place with a lot of industry involvement, some would call it lobbying with high priced former government employees.

In principle, Tex, I have no problem with industry involvement in writing "some" rules for how that industry operates. An industry should be involved in doing so, frankly, I think it's quite obvious that the trucking industry might well have some expertise on trucking I don't have.

 

There's definitely a line that can be crossed though. I got the impression doing a bit of reading that there are a few loopholes for management that would really be nice to have closed, somewhat relating to the downtime associated with loading and unloading vehicles.

 

The case of cooperation and a somewhat fair result that benefits the public and the industry can readily be contrasted with the results of things like efforts to regulate and deregulate the financial industry, where anyone trying to write a positive rule is simply pushed aside.

[Texsox]

A couple other problems with the laws you didn't mention. As you know there is a huge difference in driving 500 miles or ten hours through congested eastern cities and 500 miles or ten hours across the open spaces of the western plains. Those obvious differences are not factored into the rules. Also depending on your schedule, erratic sleep hours and not nearly as recuperative as regular hours. I'm not certain if there is a way to write the laws to reflect that.

 

Overall, I know a lot of drivers in the 1980s appreciated restrictions being put in place. I agree the laws aren't perfect, but they really aren't too bad most of the time. Now with computerized logs, I see an opportunity to relax some of the rules. The fear before was with paper logs there would be too much cheating, so make it more restrictive so with the cheating there would still be some margin of safety.

[Balta1701]

A couple other problems with the laws you didn't mention. As you know there is a huge difference in driving 500 miles or ten hours through congested eastern cities and 500 miles or ten hours across the open spaces of the western plains. Those obvious differences are not factored into the rules. Also depending on your schedule, erratic sleep hours and not nearly as recuperative as regular hours. I'm not certain if there is a way to write the laws to reflect that.

 

Overall, I know a lot of drivers in the 1980s appreciated restrictions being put in place. I agree the laws aren't perfect, but they really aren't too bad most of the time. Now with computerized logs, I see an opportunity to relax some of the rules. The fear before was with paper logs there would be too much cheating, so make it more restrictive so with the cheating there would still be some margin of safety.

I have a great idea...we could have the government construct a website where truck drivers could register their hours and have them reported to their employerrrrrrr....umm...wait a second.....

[Texsox]

I have a great idea...we could have the government construct a website where truck drivers could register their hours and have them reported to their employerrrrrrr....umm...wait a second.....

 

Actually more and more companies are doing just that. They are tracking their trucks via sats. Using speed restrictors, which save lives and fuel costs. Dash cams that also monitor the drivers. Drivers don't have to think as much, the computer tells them when to drive and when to sleep.

 

My family has been in trucking and shipping my whole life. From local to OTR. Drivers and company owners. It's a tough industry filled with people from all walks of life and all different views. I really enjoyed hanging around our terminal and swapping stories with the drivers.

[DukeNukeEm]

So the problem is that the government overregulates your work hours, and not that the government isn't building a better road that allows you to drive much farther in 2 hours?

 

Got it.

Im pretty difficult to offend, but a public employee telling me I shouldbt work hard might just do it.

[DukeNukeEm]

I have a great idea...we could have the government construct a website where truck drivers could register their hours and have them reported to their employerrrrrrr....umm...wait a second.....

I essentially have that. That complete lack of flexibility has forced me to spend nights in nice, safe places like Camden NJ and Selma AL.

[cabiness42]

Im pretty difficult to offend, but a public employee telling me I shouldbt work hard might just do it.

 

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't work hard. You definitely should work hard--especially at trying to understand what I'm saying.

 

[DukeNukeEm]

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't work hard. You definitely should work hard--especially at trying to understand what I'm saying.

Well for one, I cannot fathom a single road improvement that could shave 2 hours off an 11 hour day. Im not making up 120 miles because the road is in great shape.

 

And two, the HOS regs prevent me from working. 70 hours in 8 days is pathetic, I spend more time sleeping than working.

[cabiness42]

Well for one, I cannot fathom a single road improvement that could shave 2 hours off an 11 hour day. Im not making up 120 miles because the road is in great shape.

 

If you're stuck in that much traffic, then one or more of the following things needs to happen: 1) Existing road needs more lanes, 2) New road needs to be built along a different route to diffuse traffic, 3) Area needs better public transit system to clear some of the local traffic off the roads. The answer to sitting in traffic for 2 hours is not to let you work two hours longer.

 

 

And two, the HOS regs prevent me from working. 70 hours in 8 days is pathetic, I spend more time sleeping than working.

 

Very few people work as much as or more than 70 hours in 8 days. It's just more noticeable in your line of work because you are not at home when you aren't working and there is a lot of time left over after work + sleep. Again, the answer isn't just to work more.

[DukeNukeEm]

If you're stuck in that much traffic, then one or more of the following things needs to happen: 1) Existing road needs more lanes, 2) New road needs to be built along a different route to diffuse traffic, 3) Area needs better public transit system to clear some of the local traffic off the roads. The answer to sitting in traffic for 2 hours is not to let you work two hours longer.

 

 

 

 

Very few people work as much as or more than 70 hours in 8 days. It's just more noticeable in your line of work because you are not at home when you aren't working and there is a lot of time left over after work + sleep. Again, the answer isn't just to work more.

Unless the road is closed due to an accident I never sit in traffic. Seriously, like never. I squeeze through Los Angeles, Atlanta and Chiago without going below 40, its about timing. My truck is governed to 61, so 120 miles in 2 hours is me going full bore.

 

Also, I dont think anyone other than myself is qualified to say when I've had enough. You might b**** to your supervisor if you go 4 hours over 40 for the week, I b**** if I laid over for more than a couple hours. People are different, stupid universal rules that govern MY ENTIRE LIFE are way too blunt to contend with something thats pretty nuanced.

[cabiness42]

Unless the road is closed due to an accident I never sit in traffic. Seriously, like never. I squeeze through Los Angeles, Atlanta and Chiago without going below 40, its about timing. My truck is governed to 61, so 120 miles in 2 hours is me going full bore.

 

Also, I dont think anyone other than myself is qualified to say when I've had enough. You might b**** to your supervisor if you go 4 hours over 40 for the week, I b**** if I laid over for more than a couple hours. People are different, stupid universal rules that govern MY ENTIRE LIFE are way too blunt to contend with something thats pretty nuanced.

 

The rules don't govern your entire life. Nobody is forcing you to be a truck driver.

 

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence over the years of truck drivers plowing into and killing families after working tons of hours, so maybe you are an exception but there is a damn good reason for the rule.