OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[DukeNukeEm]

The rules don't govern your entire life. Nobody is forcing you to be a truck driver.

 

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence over the years of truck drivers plowing into and killing families after working tons of hours, so maybe you are an exception but there is a damn good reason for the rule.

Yea irresponsible assholes drive until they are exhausted beyond the clutches of No-Doz and caffeine. Guess what? They still do. They ignore the rules because they are irresponsible. Its everyone else, the same guys who could drive more but don't because its against the rules tend to be the same ones who know better than to drive at the brink of passing out, they get hurt by this.

 

But yea, this is my America. There are more rules to break than there are ways of complying. Thanks liberals.

[pettie4sox]

Welcome back, Duke.

[Texsox]

Yea irresponsible assholes drive until they are exhausted beyond the clutches of No-Doz and caffeine. Guess what? They still do. They ignore the rules because they are irresponsible. Its everyone else, the same guys who could drive more but don't because its against the rules tend to be the same ones who know better than to drive at the brink of passing out, they get hurt by this.

 

But yea, this is my America. There are more rules to break than there are ways of complying. Thanks liberals.

 

Laws do not stop people from doing anything. Anyone that believes they can stop something by writing a law is fooling themselves. That is not why we write laws.

 

These laws are in place to protect drivers from irresponsible companies that demanded they work too many hours without sleep. Perhaps you do not need the protections, but professional drivers fought like hell to get them. Think for a moment, who benefits from these laws? Drivers who were ordered to drive for 24 hours straight and more and the general public that isn't sharing the road with drivers working for irresponsible companies.

 

Your company limits your speed. Why?

 

I'm confused by your last comment. Do you believe that only liberals like laws?

[Cknolls]

Why is Narcissus lying about lying?

 

 

He didn't say what he said and wasn't in the know about what he didn't know.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Cknolls

[StrangeSox]

Well for one, I cannot fathom a single road improvement that could shave 2 hours off an 11 hour day. Im not making up 120 miles because the road is in great shape.

 

And two, the HOS regs prevent me from working. 70 hours in 8 days is pathetic, I spend more time sleeping than working.

Imagine I-80 as two lines each way going through the Illinois-Indiana border.

[StrangeSox]

If you're stuck in that much traffic, then one or more of the following things needs to happen: 1) Existing road needs more lanes, 2) New road needs to be built along a different route to diffuse traffic, 3) Area needs better public transit system to clear some of the local traffic off the roads. The answer to sitting in traffic for 2 hours is not to let you work two hours longer.

 

It's almost as if you need to actually do traffic engineering studies to determine these things!

 

Very few people work as much as or more than 70 hours in 8 days. It's just more noticeable in your line of work because you are not at home when you aren't working and there is a lot of time left over after work + sleep. Again, the answer isn't just to work more.

 

Yeah, when I'm on the road for work, I spend more time not-working during those 8-10 hour days, but that's an odd way of framing it.

 

70 hours in 8 days at a sustained rate is going to lead to a lot of fatigue. Which is exactly why we have these regulations, because we don't want chronically fatigued truck drivers (or pilots, or nuclear reactor operators, or critical security officers, etc.) on the job because it endangers many people.

[Y2HH]

Jesus, 70 hours a week?

 

That's close to having two jobs.

[StrangeSox]

I've definitely put in 70 hour weeks before. When I first started at my current job, I averaged about 55 a week for a year. 60+ hours is draining when its week-after-week-after-week. Mistakes get made, productivity drops, things get missed, etc. When you're dealing with a job that's often monotonous and repetitive like driving a truck can be, it's even easier to lose your focus and concentration.

[Iwritecode]

Jesus, 70 hours a week?

 

That's close to having two jobs.

 

I did that for about 3 years. I worked my main job M-F 8am - 4:30pm (plus an hour of driving each way) then I worked 7am - 4pm on Saturday and Sunday and 6pm - 10:30pm two nights a week (sometimes 3 nights).

 

I did it so we could catch up with some bills but it really, really sucked. I was always tired.

 

[Y2HH]

I've definitely put in 70 hour weeks before. When I first started at my current job, I averaged about 55 a week for a year. 60+ hours is draining when its week-after-week-after-week. Mistakes get made, productivity drops, things get missed, etc. When you're dealing with a job that's often monotonous and repetitive like driving a truck can be, it's even easier to lose your focus and concentration.

 

Interesting...

 

So, I've always wondered this, and I have to ask -- when you were doing this, did you ever say to yourself, "Wow, this is like working 1.5 jobs for the pay of 1?"

 

I know people that make good money (subjective), and for sake of an example, let's say they make 100,000$. Sounds great when they tell people they make 100k, but knowing their schedules, I always say to myself, "Actually, you make 50k, and work two 50k jobs, since you work 80 hours a week".

[Balta1701]

Interesting...

 

So, I've always wondered this, and I have to ask -- when you were doing this, did you ever say to yourself, "Wow, this is like working 1.5 jobs for the pay of 1?"

 

I know people that make good money (subjective), and for sake of an example, let's say they make 100,000$. Sounds great when they tell people they make 100k, but knowing their schedules, I always say to myself, "Actually, you make 50k, and work two 50k jobs, since you work 80 hours a week".

Are you kidding? In grad school I averaged over 80 and that was for the pay of 0.5 jobs.

[Iwritecode]

I think I might have made 50K/year between my two jobs.

[Y2HH]

Well, I hope you are all doing better now...

[Balta1701]

Well, I hope you are all doing better now...

mumble mumble "sequester" mumble mumble....

[StrangeSox]

Interesting...

 

So, I've always wondered this, and I have to ask -- when you were doing this, did you ever say to yourself, "Wow, this is like working 1.5 jobs for the pay of 1?"

 

I know people that make good money (subjective), and for sake of an example, let's say they make 100,000$. Sounds great when they tell people they make 100k, but knowing their schedules, I always say to myself, "Actually, you make 50k, and work two 50k jobs, since you work 80 hours a week".

 

I was being paid hourly at the time (contracting). Things really worked out in my favor when they switched me to salary based on my 60-hours-a-week income and then my typical work week switched over to 45 and has now been right at 40 almost every week for a couple of years.

[DukeNukeEm]

Interesting...

 

So, I've always wondered this, and I have to ask -- when you were doing this, did you ever say to yourself, "Wow, this is like working 1.5 jobs for the pay of 1?"

 

I know people that make good money (subjective), and for sake of an example, let's say they make 100,000$. Sounds great when they tell people they make 100k, but knowing their schedules, I always say to myself, "Actually, you make 50k, and work two 50k jobs, since you work 80 hours a week".

I don't pay bills. Well, alright I give Verizon $187 a month and I still pay insurance for my car, but I live in the truck. So yea, I save it all which I think is worth the long hours. Besides, I love this job so much I'd almost do it for free.

[Jake]

My dad owns a trucking company, so I think his insight might be helpful for this discussion. He has no problems with the regulations and says from his end, they appear pretty loose and most of his drivers agree. He also said that a pretty significant chunk of the industry disregards them, by and large, especially at the small business level like he is.

 

The key difference here is that my dad's company operates in a small area compared to what Duke is doing. He pretty much runs things between our area in Central IL and Chicago, Gary, Peoria, Bloomington, St. Louis, and an odd place here and there. I think the restrictions were made with his kind of business in mind, where guys drive all day and go home. How many 11 hour days should they work in a row?

 

If I understand Duke's situation right, his issue is different. A single load may entail several days. Sometimes, my dad's drivers will do multiple deliveries back and forth in a day. The nature of what Duke is doing would make him feel inclined to cluster more work in a shorter time followed by (I assume) more time at home. He will work through the weekend on a regular basis, I would think, whereas my dad's drivers do not normally do so because their clients usually aren't taking delivers (and it doesn't take multiple days to reach them).

[DukeNukeEm]

My dad owns a trucking company, so I think his insight might be helpful for this discussion. He has no problems with the regulations and says from his end, they appear pretty loose and most of his drivers agree. He also said that a pretty significant chunk of the industry disregards them, by and large, especially at the small business level like he is.

 

The key difference here is that my dad's company operates in a small area compared to what Duke is doing. He pretty much runs things between our area in Central IL and Chicago, Gary, Peoria, Bloomington, St. Louis, and an odd place here and there. I think the restrictions were made with his kind of business in mind, where guys drive all day and go home. How many 11 hour days should they work in a row?

 

If I understand Duke's situation right, his issue is different. A single load may entail several days. Sometimes, my dad's drivers will do multiple deliveries back and forth in a day. The nature of what Duke is doing would make him feel inclined to cluster more work in a shorter time followed by (I assume) more time at home. He will work through the weekend on a regular basis, I would think, whereas my dad's drivers do not normally do so because their clients usually aren't taking delivers (and it doesn't take multiple days to reach them).

A lot of those runs dont even require guys to keep logs, they can drive as much as they want within 100 air miles of their starting spot. No having to keep logs = no hours of service regs. So yea, theyre more than loose... they barely even exist,

 

But thats the point, DOT has pretty much established that they want to kill off nearly all long haul trucking and at the very least put an end to independent operators. They basically want trucks going from intermodal yard to distribution center then from distribution center to store and/or customer. The market still likes trucking, its flexible, its fast, it minimizes warehousing needs and its generally just as reliable as rail. Hence, HOS.

[Jake]

A lot of those runs dont even require guys to keep logs, they can drive as much as they want within 100 air miles of their starting spot. No having to keep logs = no hours of service regs. So yea, theyre more than loose... they barely even exist,

 

But thats the point, DOT has pretty much established that they want to kill off nearly all long haul trucking and at the very least put an end to independent operators. They basically want trucks going from intermodal yard to distribution center then from distribution center to store and/or customer. The market still likes trucking, its flexible, its fast, it minimizes warehousing needs and its generally just as reliable as rail. Hence, HOS.

 

Seems like they need different regs for long haul guys

[DukeNukeEm]

Seems like they need different regs for long haul guys

Pretty much.

 

And I will say theres a cost to this. I had a load, right when I just started, of nursery plants from Washington to Virginia (3000 miles). I did the trip in 6 days, about 4 hours early for my appointment. So I crack the seal and start unloading (I get paid extra to help unload so I always try to if I can) and a good third of the plants are dead. I was new, I thought I screwed up with my reefer and put in a damaged freight claim. Turns out this is pretty common, so common its not insured, its just factored in by the nurseries.

 

Now I could do that trip in 4 days without getting fatigued. Im not into botany but I figure a lot fewer of those plants die if they get out that trailer 48 hours sooner.

 

This happens with food too. Basically anything perishable, the trains cant do it fast enough (it takes them a few days just geting through Chicago) and while I can physically do it without being reckless its illegal.

 

[Texsox]

And you think the companies will pay you the same per mile?

[Texsox]

Interesting workplace change that is blamed on the ACA, and may be true.

 

Most school districts have substitutes that are in high demand. They are working four and five days a week for months on end. Because they can turn down any job, they have been classified as part time temp employees. Now, in my district they will be limited to 3 days per week. district wide.

[Jake]

As opposed to offering insurance

[Texsox]

As opposed to offering insurance

 

The difficulty in that is they are not guaranteed work. If no teachers are out, they aren't working. And if they decline jobs, they could be receiving benefits without working for the district. The radical change would be hiring a surplus of teachers to cover illnesses, etc.

[cabiness42]

Interesting workplace change that is blamed on the ACA, and may be true.

 

Most school districts have substitutes that are in high demand. They are working four and five days a week for months on end. Because they can turn down any job, they have been classified as part time temp employees. Now, in my district they will be limited to 3 days per week. district wide.

 

I worked as a sub while in grad school. I never could work more than 2-3 days a week so it wouldn't have mattered to me, but all the subs in that area worked at multiple districts, and the good ones would have had no trouble working 5 days a week even if there was a 3 day/week limit per district.