OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[CrimsonWeltall]

How would you like to be one of the people promised they could keep their coverage and now they can't? Can wipe out life savings in an instant.

 

Uh, how?

 

I AM one of those people. It just means I'm stuck having to buy a more expensive plan; not that my coverage is gone and I can't get any.

[NorthSideSox72]

Obama said everyone could keep their coverage and insurance will cost less. People are being dropped and their rates are increasing. Of course the Republicans will make political hay out of that. It's the obvious political move.

Well to be clear, I don't remember him saying insurance would cost less. The deal was it would, in the long run, keep cost growth rates lower.

 

I'm not surprised the GOP would use it politically, of course they will. It is just sort of hilarious the WAY they are doing it. The website I get, that just is terrible. People not being able to keep their same coverage I get. I'm just saying it is funny the way it circles back - they moan about these people losing their existing insurance, and how can we do that to them... when the whole deal with ObamaCare is now they can actually get coverage that isn't a disaster.

 

Obama screwed up this whole thing pretty badly. I was just pointing out a certain irony in one of the complaints.

 

[mr_genius]

Well to be clear, I don't remember him saying insurance would cost less. The deal was it would, in the long run, keep cost growth rates lower.

 

I'm not surprised the GOP would use it politically, of course they will. It is just sort of hilarious the WAY they are doing it. The website I get, that just is terrible. People not being able to keep their same coverage I get. I'm just saying it is funny the way it circles back - they moan about these people losing their existing insurance, and how can we do that to them... when the whole deal with ObamaCare is now they can actually get coverage that isn't a disaster.

 

Obama screwed up this whole thing pretty badly. I was just pointing out a certain irony in one of the complaints.

 

Obama had all these pie in the sky promises and many of them failed. Of course, I knew he was bulls***ting everyone, but not everyone is as wise and knowledgeable as me. As I predicted rates would go up, many plans purchased by individuals would be dropped, and people on dropped plans could very well have their doctors out of network. All of my predictions, as usual, came true.

 

Edited November 8, 2013 by mr_genius

[Brian]

Obama had all these pie in the sky promises and many of them failed. Of course, I knew he was bulls***ting everyone, but not everyone is as wise and knowledgeable as me. As I predicted rates would go up, many plans purchased by individuals would be dropped, and people on dropped plans could very well have their doctors out of network. All of my predictions, as usual, came true.

 

 

Rates have been going up every year for a decade, at least. Way to go out on a limb.

[Iwritecode]

This. I think the true embarrassment is that things like this do happen in our country which allegedly the "greatest" in the world.

 

It's even more embarrassing when you talk to someone from another country. They just cannot believe that we basically allow people to die or go bankrupt if they can't get or afford medical care.

 

[StrangeSox]

I said "one of" the biggest embarrassments/fiascos ever

 

Bay of Pigs? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? The systematic displacement and slaughter of native peoples? Slavery? Jim Crow? The lack of guaranteed health care for every citizen, unlike every other developed country in the world? Backing multiple brutal dictators because they opposed left-wing politics in their own country, sometimes even supporting or orchestrating violent coups? Our foreign policy in Latin America from about 1840 onward?

 

There are many, many, many things I'd put ahead of "a website that's pretty s***ty for a couple of months as part of an effort to expand healthcare to millions" on the list of horrible and embarrassing s*** this country has done.

[StrangeSox]

Good. I pray everybody affected can get coverage before they get sick.

 

I'm glad this "one of the worst" embarrassments/fiascos included important provisions that ensure that people who are already sick can still get health coverage.

[StrangeSox]

There was a WSJ Op-Ed where someone's policy was canceled, she had cancer, and was now stuck with a plan where some of her providers were out of network.

It is sad, and that does suck.

 

But, it turns out that provider had been struggling with their individual plans and were talking about cancelining them months before. Had this happened 5 years ago she would not have been able to get any coverage because she had pre-existing conditions.

It was United Healthcare, and they had already planned on pulling out of the individual market in California. They were getting their butts kicked in part because their two main competitors got big tax breaks from the state.

 

Their publicly stated strategy right now is to exit that market, let these two take the brunt of the people with pre-existing conditions who will actually be able to get insurance now but are more expensive to cover, and then re-enter the market in a few years.

[StrangeSox]

It's even more embarrassing when you talk to someone from another country. They just cannot believe that we basically allow people to die or go bankrupt if they can't get or afford medical care.

 

Exactly. That is far more embarrassing than a s***ty website.

[Cknolls]

Obama is so overmatched it is just damn sad. Is he a liar or just this dumb? http://news.yahoo.com/obama-apologizes-peo...--politics.html

Both.

[Cknolls]

I find it interesting how much people believe the President should be personally involved in. What level of involvement should the President have had in designing and writing the code for the website? Did he personally look over the code and approve it?

Maybe he shoulld have started the process in 2010 instead of waiting until after the election. Once again politics trumps everything with this asshole.

[StrangeSox]

Maybe he shoulld have started the process in 2010 instead of waiting until after the election. Once again politics trumps everything with this asshole.

How would starting the website development process playing any political role in 2012?

[Cknolls]

You realize if your policy was canceled you can still get other policies right?

That what he tells us. New and improved and better and stuff. Not some some prehistoric policy. He keeps telling us what is good for us. He should put his two kids in the exchange.

[Cknolls]

The whole use of the word "canceled" has been very questionable. My policy was "canceled" but I was offered a similar one for slightly more money, or a cheaper one with some less benefits. Either way, Blue Cross is still keeping me around. The word "canceled" makes it seem like those people are booted for good.

 

No the word cancelled means you did not get to keep your policy like bozo said you could. Nothing more nothing less.

[StrangeSox]

No the word cancelled means you did not get to keep your policy like bozo said you could. Nothing more nothing less.

 

Obama should have nationalized the insurance companies to ensure that health plans would never be modified or canceled in the future by private insurance companies, which never happened prior to the ACA. My grandfather still has his same plan from 1947!

[bmags]

That what he tells us. New and improved and better and stuff. Not some some prehistoric policy. He keeps telling us what is good for us. He should put his two kids in the exchange.

 

LOL

 

Yeah, we KNOW what's good for us, we know that when we were denied health care policy because we had cancer, that's what was great. Now he's telling us that's bad? Ugh, usa used to be free baby. used to be FREEEE

[Balta1701]

Maybe he shoulld have started the process in 2010 instead of waiting until after the election. Once again politics trumps everything with this asshole.

Of course, if you really want to get to talking about that...one big reason the Federal government didn't start developing this web page in 2010 is that they didn't want to. The bill was written with the expectation that the states would want to continue controlling their own insurance marketplaces and not have the heavy-hand of the federal government involved. It actually did not include funding to develop the website at the national level for this reason. Funding for it had to be scraped together once 2/3 of the states decided they wanted more Federal control of their marketplaces and not less, and Congress would of course not appropriate funds to do so.

 

But then again, that can't be right, because that would be letting politics trump everything and that would make the Republicans at the state level making those calls "assholes" by your standard.

[StrangeSox]

Of course, if you really want to get to talking about that...one big reason the Federal government didn't start developing this web page in 2010 is that they didn't want to. The bill was written with the expectation that the states would want to continue controlling their own insurance marketplaces and not have the heavy-hand of the federal government involved. It actually did not include funding to develop the website at the national level for this reason. Funding for it had to be scraped together once 2/3 of the states decided they wanted more Federal control of their marketplaces and not less, and Congress would of course not appropriate funds to do so.

 

But then again, that can't be right, because that would be letting politics trump everything and that would make the Republicans at the state level making those calls "assholes" by your standard.

 

There was nothing political about making PPACA "Obama's Waterloo"!!!

[Texsox]

That what he tells us. New and improved and better and stuff. Not some some prehistoric policy. He keeps telling us what is good for us. He should put his two kids in the exchange.

 

That would be awesome. Expanding the program to allow people who are already covered would make the ACA about 75% bigger than it already is. I'm surprised you are calling for such a large increase.

[DukeNukeEm]

The worst is yet to come. The mandate still looms and, oh boy, if you think people are pissed now wait until they start getting 30 hours a week at the mill.

 

The only reason they delayed it is because they wanted us addicted to another big entitlement bomb before revealing the cost. This was supposed to be the fun part and its wound up an absolutely epic disaster, imagine how bad its going to be when the not-fun stuff kicks in. And if you think they're going to make any meaningful changes to the mandate I'd like to remind you these are the same bureaucrats who cannot will their collective brainpower into making a website.

[greg775]

You want to talk to me about health care costs wiping out a life savings in an instant? Try having a spouse who is sick, actually needs medical coverage, and is uninsured. Come back to me when you've paid $1000 to go to an urgent care center who do a couple tests and give her antibiotics that are useless because you can't actually get a regular doctor to see you. Try putting together an application for individual coverage and being flatly denied because of that pre-existing condition or getting a quote that is more than you make in 2 years.

 

How would you like to have a family member of yours in constant pain, basically unable to do anything for years, because they lack health insurance? Get back to me when you've gone through that agony and I might have a tiny bit of sympathy.

 

You want to talk about a website being embarrassing? We should be embarrassed that people go through this crap in a civilized country every single day, but we're not because they're not important enough.

 

I'm very appalled by that and embarrassed by that. Is the new setup going to help you out or not?

[greg775]

It's even more embarrassing when you talk to someone from another country. They just cannot believe that we basically allow people to die or go bankrupt if they can't get or afford medical care.

 

This truly is disgraceful. I just get the feeling nobody cares unless it affects their own family. There's no empathy anymore unless there's a national disaster. Then people donate. But when it's something like medical costs driving individuals to the poorhouse, nobody cares. I just don't get it.

[StrangeSox]

The worst is yet to come. The mandate still looms and, oh boy, if you think people are pissed now wait until they start getting 30 hours a week at the mill.

 

The only reason they delayed it is because they wanted us addicted to another big entitlement bomb before revealing the cost. This was supposed to be the fun part and its wound up an absolutely epic disaster, imagine how bad its going to be when the not-fun stuff kicks in. And if you think they're going to make any meaningful changes to the mandate I'd like to remind you these are the same bureaucrats who cannot will their collective brainpower into making a website.

 

Oh boy!

 

[StrangeSox]

This truly is disgraceful. I just get the feeling nobody cares unless it affects their own family. There's no empathy anymore unless there's a national disaster. Then people donate. But when it's something like medical costs driving individuals to the poorhouse, nobody cares. I just don't get it.

 

"Nobody cares" except those of us who constantly push for socialized health care access.

[Jake]

The whole use of the word "canceled" has been very questionable. My policy was "canceled" but I was offered a similar one for slightly more money, or a cheaper one with some less benefits. Either way, Blue Cross is still keeping me around. The word "canceled" makes it seem like those people are booted for good.

 

In the past decade, only 17% of those buying insurance in the individual market stuck with the same plan for more than two years. Most of the time, this is because the companies were changing things every year. In the past 6-8 years, my premiums as a young, healthy man have well over doubled and my deductible has quadrupled. That indeed involved my plan getting canceled and them giving me a few options for continuing with the company. We never really knew what the other companies were offering.

 

 

Obama said everyone could keep their coverage and insurance will cost less. People are being dropped and their rates are increasing. Of course the Republicans will make political hay out of that. It's the obvious political move.

 

Only the media can make people look at things this way.

 

You could say that Obamacare forced cancellations and that this was a big fat lie. That's plausible. Merits discussion.

 

However, the law doesn't force anything. It says those plans can be grandfathered in. On the other hand, they can only be grandfathered in if the prices aren't jacked up. The cancelled plans were cancelled because either 1. the company wanted to raise the prices significantly or 2. knew they could take advantage of this political moment to raise the prices. Why doesn't anyone ask why the companies are doing what they are doing?

 

This is the problem with the way we think in this country. The unrestricted free market has become like a religion. We don't question the actions of a private company because we don't expect them to act in any way but their own interest. We hope that our families will act selflessly and for their collective good, but we are surrounded by immensely important institutions that will do nothing but serve themselves but nobody bats an eye. Why is the girl that wrote in the WSJ not furious at her insurance company? Why doesn't call out the private system on the whole?

Edited November 9, 2013 by Jake