Tigers sign Victor Martinez 4yr/$50m

[southsider2k5]

Is there a source for this or did you ask him directly?

 

Todays Chicago Tribune.

[spiderman]

Considering the Sox already have 80 million for 12 or 13 players, still have to decide what to with Konerko, AJ and Putz plus find ways to improve the team, where is the money coming from to offer up $12 million (or more) for Martinez? Is that at the expense of Konerko?

[RockRaines]

Considering the Sox already have 80 million for 12 or 13 players, still have to decide what to with Konerko, AJ and Putz plus find ways to improve the team, where is the money coming from to offer up $12 million (or more) for Martinez? Is that at the expense of Konerko?

They didnt offer that much to him as there was no offer.

 

 

However, if they offer a contract to Adam Dunn, it will be at the expense of Konerko and maybe even AJ. You would then have Viciedo as your starting 1B and Dunn as your full time DH.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

According to Mark Gonzales of the Trib, The Sox did have discussions with Martinez's agent, but they never made a formal to their camp.

 

The White Sox never discuss offers, Kenny Williams lives in a secret bunker near Roswell!

[spiderman]

They didnt offer that much to him as there was no offer.

 

 

However, if they offer a contract to Adam Dunn, it will be at the expense of Konerko and maybe even AJ. You would then have Viciedo as your starting 1B and Dunn as your full time DH.

OK, that was my assumption then - if they bring in a bat like Dunn, it means that Konerko will be gone since their payroll has little flexibility.

 

My question would be, how does this team improve if the only thing they can do is swap Konerko for Dunn, lose Jenks, and maybe resign Putz and AJ? Kenny usually has something up his sleeve, not sure if that's trying to move Floyd, but, even in a deal for Floyd, it doesn't seem likely that they would be able to take on a big salary.

 

With the payroll the way that it is, it feels like the White Sox are in quicksand, stuck in that 78-87 or so wins, depending on how things break.

[Jordan4life_2007]

OK, that was my assumption then - if they bring in a bat like Dunn, it means that Konerko will be gone since their payroll has little flexibility.

 

My question would be, how does this team improve if the only thing they can do is swap Konerko for Dunn, lose Jenks, and maybe resign Putz and AJ? Kenny usually has something up his sleeve, not sure if that's trying to move Floyd, but, even in a deal for Floyd, it doesn't seem likely that they would be able to take on a big salary.

 

With the payroll the way that it is, it feels like the White Sox are in quicksand, stuck in that 78-87 or so wins, depending on how things break.

I wouldn't be all that surprised if we went into '11 without any legitimate upgrades. Outside of trading a Danks or Floyd, there's really no flexibility to do anything.

[spiderman]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if we went into '11 without any legitimate upgrades. Outside of trading a Danks or Floyd, there's really no flexibility to do anything.

 

That's what I'm thinking also, we may swap Konerko for Dunn, but there's just no payroll flexibility. I do think there's a chance that Williams moves Floyd, but it would probably have to be for young talent, again, because of payroll. They may just bank on their starting rotation being able to carry the team for a full season, though trading a guy like Floyd, even as inconsistent as he can be, would weaken the staff as well. Tough off-season for the Sox to be able to improve the team much.

[RockRaines]

That's what I'm thinking also, we may swap Konerko for Dunn, but there's just no payroll flexibility. I do think there's a chance that Williams moves Floyd, but it would probably have to be for young talent, again, because of payroll. They may just bank on their starting rotation being able to carry the team for a full season, though trading a guy like Floyd, even as inconsistent as he can be, would weaken the staff as well. Tough off-season for the Sox to be able to improve the team much.

What if they did Konerko, Jenks and AJ, for Dunn and DLEE?

[bigruss]

What if they did Konerko, Jenks and AJ, for Dunn and DLEE?

Throw in Putz and Ill be happy, not estatic but that's a solid offseason.

[Dick Allen]

What if they did Konerko, Jenks and AJ, for Dunn and DLEE?

DLee is a cheap alternative if Paulie is gone. He plays good defense. Is a solid citize, Ozzie knows and loves him from his days with the Marlins. He could have a bounce back year like Paulie in 2010. Its a downgrade offensively, at least from Paulie's 2010, but it makes too much sense if Paulie doesn't come back.

[spiderman]

What if they did Konerko, Jenks and AJ, for Dunn and DLEE?

 

I'm not sure that they are any better, probably about the same. Dunn is always good for his 30+ HR's (maybe 40 again) so I like that as a DH, Lee is coming off a subpar season, but that could be who he is now at this point of his career. I really think they need to add a veteran catcher, if it isn't AJ. Your scenario isn't bad, I just don't know if the team is any better.

[southsider2k5]

Throw in Putz and Ill be happy, not estatic but that's a solid offseason.

 

The bullpen is going to be very different next year. I'd bet on no Jenks and no Linebrink to start with.

[Buehrlesque]

What if they did Konerko, Jenks and AJ, for Dunn and DLEE?

I like it.

 

The only question mark there is: are you leaving Quentin in RF?

[bigruss]

The bullpen is going to be very different next year. I'd bet on no Jenks and no Linebrink to start with.

And both of those gone would make me happy. But who is taking on Liney's contract?

[southsider2k5]

And both of those gone would make me happy. But who is taking on Liney's contract?

 

My bet is that we pull a bad contract for bad contract kind of deal.

[knightni]

Send Liney to Colorado with Teahen and Floyd.

[spiderman]

The bullpen is going to be very different next year. I'd bet on no Jenks and no Linebrink to start with.

 

Linebrink has 1 year left at 4 or 5 million, right? If so, how do you see the Sox moving him?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I'm not sure that they are any better, probably about the same. Dunn is always good for his 30+ HR's (maybe 40 again) so I like that as a DH, Lee is coming off a subpar season, but that could be who he is now at this point of his career. I really think they need to add a veteran catcher, if it isn't AJ. Your scenario isn't bad, I just don't know if the team is any better.

I don't see that team contending with no catcher and Quentin in RF.

 

If they brought in Dunn to DH, Lee to play 1B and brought back AJ, maybe they'd have a shot. If the money isn't there, I'd rather they go with Viciedo at 1B over Lee and re-sign AJ instead of sacrificing AJ for Derrick Lee.

[southsider2k5]

Linebrink has 1 year left at 4 or 5 million, right? If so, how do you see the Sox moving him?

 

Bad contract for bad contract

[chisoxt]

I'll say it again and again, when was the last time the Sox actually signed a top-tier free agent? They don't get involved in a bidding wars in free agency. I refuse to believe we will be a top contender for any of the big boys except Konerko since he is one of own. The Sox MO is try to find free agent bargains, re-sign their own guys and trade for proven talent. They just don't do the big-time free agency thing, which in some respects is good because then you don't become the Cubs and get stuck with horrendous contracts.

See Peavy, Jake;Rios, Alex

[Disco72]

See Peavy, Jake;Rios, Alex

 

There's "overpaid" and there's "bad contract." Rios is a productive player, so should Peavy (assuming recovery from injury). These are not bad contracts in the "we're totally screwed" sense. Of course, if Peavy doesn't return to form, that contract will be quite an anchor on KW's ability to field a winning team.

[Jack Parkman]

There's "overpaid" and there's "bad contract." Rios is a productive player, so should Peavy (assuming recovery from injury). These are not bad contracts in the "we're totally screwed" sense. Of course, if Peavy doesn't return to form, that contract will be quite an anchor on KW's ability to field a winning team.

Yeah, but Peavy is only signed through 2012, so if he doesn't return to form, it won't hamper the Sox for 5 years like the Soriano contract does to the Cubs. Really it would only be 1 season(2012) because if you really think about it, even if Peavy didn't get injured this season, we'd still be in the situation we are this offseason, with the slight chance that maybe it would be okay if you traded Floyd, but even so, Peavy is only good for 160-180 innings a season.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Elgin Slim

[spiderman]

There's "overpaid" and there's "bad contract." Rios is a productive player, so should Peavy (assuming recovery from injury). These are not bad contracts in the "we're totally screwed" sense. Of course, if Peavy doesn't return to form, that contract will be quite an anchor on KW's ability to field a winning team.

 

Both were calculated risks - they got Rios for no players in return, but that's because of his contract. So far, this has worked out. It's so nice to have a CF the caliber of Rios who can cover so much ground. As for Peavy, this one hurts - the contract is pretty big for a few more seasons, and it cost young talent (Clayton Richard) for a guy who has been known to have some injury issues. With his latest injury, I think it's extremely questionable whether he's ever effective anywhere near where's he's been in the past. I think the Hudson for Jackson trade is another one that really hurts - they just don't have flexibility to add without subtracting at another position.

[Balta1701]

So, why did the Sox balk?

 

Multiple Red Sox sources indicated they felt that, even with the strides that Martinez made this year to perform at a respectable level, he is unlikely to remain a viable everyday catcher for more than two more seasons. After that, he would likely be consigned to duty as a designated hitter and first baseman. When that happens, his value will drop precipitously.

 

That might explain why the Sox initially approached Martinez with a two-year offer during the season. His current production as a catcher would justify one of the richest contracts ever for a backstop. And this past year, his OPS ranked fifth in the majors among catchers.

 

But even his current production as a DH/first baseman would have been far more modest. His .838 OPS would have ranked 18th among DH/first basemen, just ahead of Jack Cust (a likely non-tender candidate by the A’s) and just behind Vladimir Guerrero (whose $9 million option was declined by the Rangers).

Link?, worth reading more.

[witesoxfan]

Martinez is a sexy name, but really he's not a fantastic player. Basically an .850 OPS guy and that could come down as he ages and in moving to Comerica (though Comerica isn't a terrible hitters park). I have no problem with Detroit paying him $50 million over the next 4 years, and I think Dunn will ultimately be a better investment. Quite frankly, his value will be comparable to that of Paul Konerko in his "mediocre" seasons, and that's really only worth about 2-3 wins when taking into consideration the positional adjustment.

 

Dunn would be a better addition to the club, and just a better addition period.