Winter Meeting Buzz

[Leonard Washington]

The last thing the Dodgers need to do is get worse defensively in the OF.

That's true. I just looked at their depth chart, and they had Jay Gibbons as their LF, which sparked the Quentin thought.

 

They probably have a prospect they can plug in there, but who knows with Colletti.

 

Either way, I think a Flowers for high-upside bullpen arm makes more sense. I love Jensen's arm the best, but he's a flyball pitcher.

[witesoxfan]

I've thought about Broxton too, but he's due $7MM in 2011 so i don't think we can afford him unless we shed some payroll in the deal.

 

Flowers + Quentin + Teahen for Broxton.

 

Seems like a lot, but Teahen has negative trade value, which kind of evens things up.

 

And then the Sox are left with no one to play RF. That's the main problem with dealing Quentin right now.

 

I would suggest Mark Teahen (plus perhaps Jhonny Nunez) for Brandon Lyon. Teahen is due $4.75 mill this year, $5.5 mill next; Lyon is due $5.25 mill this year, $5.5 mill next year, so the salaries are essentially a wash. The Astros have considered using Lee at 1B next year, which would leave them with an opening in LF vs RHP (as Jason Michaels would play against LHP). Beyond that, Teahen would allow them a player who can play all over the diamond for them as well (in the Geoff Blum mold (who they just lost in free agency)). Lyon comes over here and simply acts as a middle reliever.

 

The Astros make the move because they add a little bit to a rather meager offensive club plus they get a young, though perhaps not great, reliever in the deal. The Sox do it because they are short on quality relievers, they have no place in the everyday lineup for Mark Teahen, and Jhonny Nunez is not part of the long-term plans of the franchise. It also opens a spot on the 40-man, for whatever that is worth.

Edited December 9, 2010 by witesoxfan

[Leonard Washington]

I wasn't really even suggesting trading Quentin. My original post was suggesting moving Flowers for one of LA's high upside RHR's...I was just saying someone like Quentin would probably have to be included to get Broxton.

 

Teahen for Lyon makes some sense though. I like that Lyon's shown he can pitch well in the AL.

[sircaffey]

Brandon Lyon actually has value. Teahen would be given away if possible.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Brandon Lyon actually has value. Teahen would be given away if possible.

 

Pretty much. I despise hypothetical trades. I just don't understand how Teahen is ever mentioned in them.

[witesoxfan]

I generally do too, but I figured giving a semi-realistic one was better than proposing one for Pujols and Wainwright.

 

It's likely that Houston wouldn't do it, or they wouldn't do it without an actual high upside arm in the deal - such as Nathan Jones or Anthony Carter - opposed to Jhonny Nunez, who seems to be more of fringe reliever than he is a high upside arm, but Brandon Lyon isn't suddenly a stud himself either. The Astros are paying more than $5 million a year for a reliever who is, at his very best, about a 1.5 WAR pitcher and is generally between 0.7-1 WAR per year. They could get some excess value in Nunez, Jones, or Carter simply by having them for 6 years while also getting some value out of Mark Teahen...he is respectable in LF and RF, so if they made the move to send Lee to 1B, he would have value in LF.

 

Mark Teahen was really bad last year - -0.6 WAR - but most of that was due to him playing absolutely horrendous defense at 3B. He wouldn't be playing 3B in Houston, he'd either be playing in LF, or he'd be playing all over the diamond, which minimizes the inept defense simply because he doesn't play there every day. I imagine Houston would initially rather look elsewhere for a platoon mate for Jason Michaels, but, by trading Lyon for Teahen (and a relief prospect), they actually shed $500k and get a future reliever out of the whole deal too. Furthermore, it's also possible that Teahen is semi-respectable next year, which leaves open the possibility that the Dodgers would trade a future Hall of Famer for him at the deadline too.

[3E8]

Pretty much. I despise hypothetical trades. I just don't understand how Teahen is ever mentioned in them.

It's either got to be bad-contract for bad-contract swap or ship a lot of cash with him.

[TomPickle]

I don't know if the Jeff Francouer deal was mentioned in here earlier or not, but the Royals have also gone out and signed Melky Cabrera.

 

The only surprising this is that Dayton Moore didn't sign Matt Diaz.

Edited December 9, 2010 by TomPickle

[Leonard Washington]

I don't know if the Jeff Francouer deal was mentioned in here earlier or not, but the Royals have also gone out and signed Melky Cabrera.

 

At this rate I'm shocked Dayton Moore didn't sign Matt Diaz.

I think it's become more than apparent Moore is better suited as a scouting director and not a GM.

[beautox]

With the rays seemingly looking to deal Garza; I think the white sox match up very well. The rays need a 1B and DH that are cost controlled, and once the bartlett deal goes through in the morning they will have a little bit of money to sign a closer for one year to fill out their bullpen possibly even Jenks. I think viciedo + quentin and maybe a high upside relief arm for garza is a distinct possibility.

[Jordan4life_2007]

With the rays seemingly looking to deal Garza; I think the white sox match up very well. The rays need a 1B and DH that are cost controlled, and once the bartlett deal goes through in the morning they will have a little bit of money to sign a closer for one year to fill out their bullpen possibly even Jenks. I think viciedo + quentin and maybe a high upside relief arm for garza is a distinct possibility.

 

I like Garza. But why exactly do we need another SP right now when we've already got 50+ million invested in our current rotation?

[Chisoxfn]

I'd definitely look for the Sox to try and package Teahen for a reliever who has been good in the past, but is a little iffy with an iffy contract. And than for the other reliever, I wouldn't be surprised to see the franchise use Flowers or Viciedo as bait. If it is Flowers or Viciedo, I think we'd be talking about a young power arm.

 

I still think the Sox might take a shot at Delcarmen and see if Coop can make his stuff work in our pen. He's got a nice arm but it sure as s*** hasn't worked out. Huge command issues. Not many hits allowed per inning pitch and a nice strikeout per inning ratio. But man, his WHIP's been bad each of the pats two years.

 

Bill James certainly has an optimisic prediction for Delcarmen in 2011. Not sure where the hell he gets it from since there is nothing in any of his recent statistics which would indicate he's figured it out though. In fact, I can't see any statistical reasons anyone would go for Delcarmen (outside of his BAA). He is only attractive from the scouting standpoint since the raw tools are there.

[Leonard Washington]

I like Garza. But why exactly do we need another SP right now when we've already got 50+ million invested in our current rotation?

Yeah agreed. Unless its a 3-way deal, it doesn't make much sense. Maybe with the Brewers. They could get Floyd, we could get Cain. I know how much you love hypothetical trade proposals...

[beautox]

I like Garza. But why exactly do we need another SP right now when we've already got 50+ million invested in our current rotation?

 

For a number of reasons:

Going into 2011 we don't know what Peavy's health is going to be, he might not even break ST with the sox and he could regress, if not, its never a bad thing to have too much starting pitching, if Peavy is healthy then it allows you to work out an extension with danks/garza or at the deadline or possibly move one of our pitchers not named Buehrle or Peavy.

 

We have situation looming ahead of us with our rotation. Buehrle & Jackson are both FA after this upcoming season, Peavy and Danks in 2012, unless Peavy pitches like his former cy young self the next two years, I don't foresee us picking up his 22m option for 2013, Floyd's a FA after 2013. Garza would be a free agent the same offseaon as Floyd. It would serve the sox well to know what they have going into the 2013 season with a good looking core of Floyd, Garza and Sale.

 

Lastly Quentin is not fit to play RF and he is made of glass, i'm of the feeling he would've made a very good DH but now we have the best DH in the AL so its redundant to keep him on the roster and in addition to that unless Dayan is going to Learn RF with konerkos signing it doesn't make sense to keep him, unless we are going to string him along like the angels did morales. Like i previously stated the rays are pitching rich but need cost effective solutions at 1B and DH, unless their going to use Dan Johnson which if they are going to compete in the east this year they're going to need something with a bit more upside.

[chw42]

I think it's become more than apparent Moore is better suited as a scouting director and not a GM.

 

Dayton Moore only loves acquiring former Braves players and guys who can't get on base.

[Leonard Washington]

Dayton Moore only loves acquiring former Braves players and guys who can't get on base.

He's put together an epic farm system though... that's where the scouting director thing comes into play. His problem is he's too loyal to his initial opinions of guys he had an involvement with in amateur evaluations. This is a silly quality to have in a GM. In a scouting director, it's less silly. He has a good eye for amateur talent...just a total lack of rationality for how to handle a major league roster.

[chw42]

He's put together an epic farm system though... that's where the scouting director thing comes into play. His problem is he's too loyal to his initial opinions of guys he had an involvement with in amateur evaluations. This is a silly quality to have in a GM. In a scouting director, it's less silly. He has a good eye for amateur talent...just a total lack of rationality for how to handle a major league roster.

 

The epic farm system might never see the light of day though. Because Dayton will be asking his manager to play Francouer every day.

 

The guy blocked Kila because he had a fetish for Mike Jacobs. I mean seriously, WTF?

Edited December 9, 2010 by chw42

[Jordan4life_2007]

Dayton Moore only loves acquiring former Braves players and guys who can't get on base.

 

Are you implying that Jeff Francouer is not a great acquisition (did I spell that right?).

[Leonard Washington]

The epic farm system might never see the light of day though. Because Dayton will be asking his manager to play Francouer every day.

 

The guy blocked Kila because he had a fetish for Mike Jacobs. I mean seriously, WTF?

This exactly proves my point.

[Lillian]

For a number of reasons:

Going into 2011 we don't know what Peavy's health is going to be, he might not even break ST with the sox and he could regress, if not, its never a bad thing to have too much starting pitching, if Peavy is healthy then it allows you to work out an extension with danks/garza or at the deadline or possibly move one of our pitchers not named Buehrle or Peavy.

 

We have situation looming ahead of us with our rotation. Buehrle & Jackson are both FA after this upcoming season, Peavy and Danks in 2012, unless Peavy pitches like his former cy young self the next two years, I don't foresee us picking up his 22m option for 2013, Floyd's a FA after 2013. Garza would be a free agent the same offseaon as Floyd. It would serve the sox well to know what they have going into the 2013 season with a good looking core of Floyd, Garza and Sale.

 

Lastly Quentin is not fit to play RF and he is made of glass, i'm of the feeling he would've made a very good DH but now we have the best DH in the AL so its redundant to keep him on the roster and in addition to that unless Dayan is going to Learn RF with konerkos signing it doesn't make sense to keep him, unless we are going to string him along like the angels did morales. Like i previously stated the rays are pitching rich but need cost effective solutions at 1B and DH, unless their going to use Dan Johnson which if they are going to compete in the east this year they're going to need something with a bit more upside.

 

The last thing for which the Sox need to trade is another starting pitcher.

Jackson will not be a free agent at the end of this season. He only has 4.07 years of ML service time.

He'll be a free agent after the 2012 season.

Quentin is the best hitter we have to provide Dunn some protection, and should bat 5th.

I agree that he is not a good enough defender to play RF, but then I've covered that subject pretty well in other posts.

[witesoxfan]

The last thing for which the Sox need to trade is another starting pitcher.

Jackson will not be a free agent at the end of this season. He only has 4.07 years of ML service time.

He'll be a free agent after the 2012 season.

Quentin is the best hitter we have to provide Dunn some protection, and should bat 5th.

I agree that he is not a good enough defender to play RF, but then I've covered that subject pretty well in other posts.

 

Jackson WILL be a free agent at the end of the season, as he has accumulated 5.07 years of MLB service time. That number on BR states that it is from 01/2010...that means it came from before the 2010 season, which means that you can add one additional number to it.

[beautox]

The last thing for which the Sox need to trade is another starting pitcher.

Jackson will not be a free agent at the end of this season. He only has 4.07 years of ML service time.

He'll be a free agent after the 2012 season.

Quentin is the best hitter we have to provide Dunn some protection, and should bat 5th.

I agree that he is not a good enough defender to play RF, but then I've covered that subject pretty well in other posts.

 

wite already addressed it below, but jackson is a FA after this season. I just think it would be prudent to get another starter for our continued strength going forward.

 

2011                                2012                                 2013                                
Buehrle                            Danks                               Floyd
Danks                              Floyd                                Garza
Floyd                               Peavy                               Sale 
Jackson                           Garza                               Peavy**/ ?
Peavy(?)/Pena/Sale*        Sale                                  ?
Garza

 

*Sale in the BP

** Peavy's opition

 

It appears going into '11 sale will be used strictly out of the bullpen; I would rather the organization take its time with Peavy coming back and not risk re-injuring himself in addition to setting up rotation for 2012 & 2013, I think Pena could potentially be serviceable but KW has always put a precedent on our rotation and this hypothetical situation just makes alot of sense between both teams; thats all.

 

OS:

What is boston going to do now that Crawford is locked up, i wonder if we see Cameron and Scutaro moved. From a baseball perspective im looking forward to seeing what lowrie and the red sox in general do next year

 

edit: code tags

Edited December 9, 2010 by beautox

[witesoxfan]

Matt Garza is OK. I think he is a #2-3 type starter, some guts, some "passion," if you will, but I don't think he is going to be worth what the Rays may end up trading him for, and I don't think the Sox are really concerned with adding a starting pitcher right now. I understand they have some holes in the rotation looming, but you can cross that bridge when you get there. The bullpen has holes in it right now that need to be addressed, and the offense, even with the addition and the resignings, can still use all the help and depth it can get.

 

Let the Cubs trade the moon for him. That'd be sweet.

[chw42]

It appears that they're asking for quite a bit for Garza. Or at least that's the impression I get.

 

I used to be pretty high on the guy, but now, I don't see him as anything more than a decent to good starter. All that talent he has isn't translating into Ks and good control. His FIP is constantly around 4 and he always ends up around 200 innings. That's a formula for your typical 2.5 - 3 WAR starter.

[Lillian]

Thank you "Whitesoxfan" and "Beautox".

I stand corrected regarding E. Jackson's ML service time.