Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) I'd package Johnny Danks + all of our prospects for Upton in a heartbeat. I'd package Danks and my family for Upton. I love that dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 How many post-1950 guys have had .400 OBP plus more than 40 SB, J4L? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) I'd package Danks and my family for Upton. I love that dude. We might as well throw Jordan in too. Make it kind of a double family affair thing. Then we'd have to get BJ from Tampa, because i'm getting all sentimental in this holiday season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:32 PM) How many post-1950 guys have had .400 OBP plus more than 40 SB, J4L? Besides Rickey? I can't think of anybody off the top of my head. That's not my point. For some reason certain posters have become obsessed with speedy leadoff guys. Speed is fine if it's there. But it's not essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:34 PM) We might as well throw Jordan in too. Make it kind of a double family affair thing. Then we'd have to get BJ from Tampa, because i'm getting all sentimental in this holiday season. How about Danks and Beckham as a starting point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:34 PM) We might as well throw Jordan in too. Make it kind of a double family affair thing. Then we'd have to get BJ from Tampa, because i'm getting all sentimental in this holiday season. If I'm getting BJs from the state of Florida, I'm going to Gainesville and hitting on the Florida dance squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 06:38 PM) Besides Rickey? I can't think of anybody off the top of my head. That's not my point. For some reason certain posters have become obsessed with speedy leadoff guys. Speed is fine if it's there. But it's not essential. Not that this necessarily means anything, but Swisher from the leadoff spot was unwatchable. I don't have the numbers, nor do I care enough to get them, but wasn't his OBP there decent in his few PA's? I think OBP>Speed from the spot but I think a mix is very desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:42 PM) Not that this necessarily means anything, but Swisher from the leadoff spot was unwatchable. I don't have the numbers, nor do I care enough to get them, but wasn't his OBP there decent in his few PA's? I think OBP>Speed from the spot but I think a mix is very desirable. In 106 at bats leading off in his career, he has a .351 OBP with a .672 OPS. His next worst is batting 6th, where he puts up a .780 OPS. Your memory serves you well. The Sox sure sold low on his ass. He has been incredibly valuable 4 of the last 5 seasons. Guess which one he played on the South Side! Edited December 9, 2010 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 05:45 PM) In 106 at bats leading off in his career, he has a .351 OBP with a .672 OPS. His next worst is batting 6th, where he puts up a .780 OPS. Your memory serves you well. 105 of those at bats came with the Sox in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:46 PM) 105 of those at bats came with the Sox in 2005. Ozzieball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 05:48 PM) Ozzieball. Fixed typo. Meant 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) I never said it was the only stat that matters. But if you visit sites such as baseball prospectus and hardball times, it's been legitimately proven that high OBP, not SB or even SLG%, is the best and most reliable way to scoring runs. I don't care about playoff stats. The playoffs are a short sample size and an extreme crapshoot. I'm talking about the marathon that is the 162-game regular season. And Juan Pierre still sucks. This is part of the problem. The team that focuses only on the averages and stats marathon, doesn't necessarily have the good post season team. The post season may be a small sample size but it's the most important sample to win the world series. This is part of the reason you need to use baseball sense along with the stats to create a team that can win in both. If you focus too much on one you may not be able to win the whole the thing which is the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:42 PM) Not that this necessarily means anything, but Swisher from the leadoff spot was unwatchable. I don't have the numbers, nor do I care enough to get them, but wasn't his OBP there decent in his few PA's? I think OBP>Speed from the spot but I think a mix is very desirable. I don't know the exact numbers either. But Swisher was beyond pathetic in 2008. Any other year? Give me him over JP 7 days a week. It's a pretty s***ty feeling when watching a guy with over 700 PAs knowing that the best-case scenario is a f***ing single. My name is Jordan4life and I hate Juan Pierre. The end. Edited December 9, 2010 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 05:38 PM) Besides Rickey? I can't think of anybody off the top of my head. That's not my point. For some reason certain posters have become obsessed with speedy leadoff guys. Speed is fine if it's there. But it's not essential. Barry Bonds and Bobby Abreu I think that a balance is important, though. At least one speed guy is good to have to balance out the clubbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 08:32 PM) Oh come on, who WOULDN'T tolerate a penis??? I think you're exaggerating just a tad... Not exaggerating - just deliousionally omitting. I believe that my reference to penis was something in the nature of telling a moderator to... Well - you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:50 PM) I don't know the exact numbers either. But Swisher was beyond pathetic in 2008. Any other year? Give me him over JP 7 days a week. It's a pretty s***ty feeling when watching a guy with over 700 PAs knowing that the best-case scenario is a f***ing single. My name is Jordan4life and I hate Juan Pierre. The end. I'm with you. I don't mind the no power thing, but Pierre is only a decent leadoff hitter if he gets on base at a .365 or higher clip. That means he has to take walks. It's cool that he increases pitch counts by swinging at every single pitch and fouling it off before eventually grounding out to second base, but you can also increase pitch counts by having a good eye, taking balls, and hitting the ball hard when they put it in the strike zone -- and you get on base a LOT more that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 11:20 AM) I'm with you. I don't mind the no power thing, but Pierre is only a decent leadoff hitter if he gets on base at a .365 or higher clip. That means he has to take walks. It's cool that he increases pitch counts by swinging at every single pitch and fouling it off before eventually grounding out to second base, but you can also increase pitch counts by having a good eye, taking balls, and hitting the ball hard when they put it in the strike zone -- and you get on base a LOT more that way. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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