Winter Meeting Buzz

[southsider2k5]

I don't get the Accardo interest. He has had one good year in his ML life with a 2.14 ERA in 2007. He had a nice ERA in limited innings in 2009 (2.55), but a horrific WHIP (1.62). Man I hope this is not the type we are going to go after because he pretty much blows. Would rather see s***ty prospects pitch than this bum. I wonder if there is any thought to moving Addison Reed back to a reliever to speed his timetable up? As well, I am now fully convinced Sale is going to be in the pen as the closer with Matt and Sergio as the set-up men. Pena as one of the middle relievers.

 

EDIT: I see Addison relieved most of this year in the minors.

 

That could have been something to do with innings pitched. Honestly the Sox don't like their pitching prospects in the pen. They like them starting to get their reps and their development.

[Lillian]

I'm trying to forget about Juan Pierre right now because he makes me want to hurl. But I agree. Mitchell is one of, like, 2 prospects we have right now that really, really intrigues me. I just hope it doesn't take him forever to bounce back from missing so much time. So are you saying that you wouldn't deal Dayan, Flowers and whatever scrub for Broxton and maybe another piece? That's where this all started for me. I hate hypothetical trades with no substance like Megatron hates Optimus prime. But I'm buzzed and bored and had to speak my mind.

 

Thank you for expressing your sentiments regarding Pierre. I've posted several extensive comments on White Sox Interactive about how I would like to see the Sox upgrade the outfield, starting with Pierre. The insults and attacks against my suggestions have been "over the top".

Geez, I can't help it if a guy who can't drive the ball out of the infield doesn't excite me. Apparently, a lot of the guys on that board just think that it's all about stolen bases. Pierre can do that, but that's about all he can do.

 

At any rate, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who is not enamored with J. P.'s game.

[Jerksticks]

Thank you for expressing your sentiments regarding Pierre. I've posted several extensive comments on White Sox Interactive about how I would like to see the Sox upgrade the outfield, starting with Pierre. The insults and attacks against my suggestions have been "over the top".

Geez, I can't help it if a guy who can't drive the ball out of the infield doesn't excite me. Apparently, a lot of the guys on that board just think that it's all about stolen bases. Pierre can do that, but that's about all he can do.

 

At any rate, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who is not enamored with J. P.'s game.

Yes, I think he is an awful fit for this team. And sweet stinkin sausage, at lead off of all places!?

[maggsmaggs]

Thank you for expressing your sentiments regarding Pierre. I've posted several extensive comments on White Sox Interactive about how I would like to see the Sox upgrade the outfield, starting with Pierre. The insults and attacks against my suggestions have been "over the top".

Geez, I can't help it if a guy who can't drive the ball out of the infield doesn't excite me. Apparently, a lot of the guys on that board just think that it's all about stolen bases. Pierre can do that, but that's about all he can do.

 

At any rate, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who is not enamored with J. P.'s game.

I don't anyone is particular enamored with JP's game (granted I haven't see your conversations with others on this board), but after the All-Star break, JP was solid:

.295 average, .357 OBP and 36 SBs to 7 CSs. For a leadoff hitter making $4 million (taking into consideration what the Dodger's are paying) that is pretty good. Chone Figgins was worse last year and the Mariners are paying double than the what the Sox are. JP played very good D and was a strong player after the break. He also added 33 RBIs, too after the break. Is the ideal? No. But at the low price, he is fine. Who out there at a reasonable price is gonna perform better? Obviously there are many players better than JP, but they also command triple his salary. Sometimes you need less than ideal players because of salary restraints. Of all the things wrong last year, Juan Pierre was not one of them.

Edited December 9, 2010 by maggsmaggs

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't anyone is particular enamored with JP's game (granted I haven't see your conversations with others on this board), but after the All-Star break, JP was solid:

.295 average, .357 OBP and 36 SBs to 7 CSs. For a leadoff hitter making $4 million (taking into consideration what the Dodger's are paying) that is pretty good. Chone Figgins was worse last year and the Mariners are paying double than the what the Sox are. JP played very good D and was a strong player after the break. He also added 33 RBIs, too after the break. Is the ideal? No. But at the low price, he is fine. Who out there at a reasonable price is gonna perform better? Obviously there are many players better than JP, but they also command triple his salary. Sometimes you need less than ideal players because of salary restraints. Of all the things wrong last year, Juan Pierre was not one of them.

 

Just because we don't have anybody better doesn't mean that JP sucks any less. How the f*** does a major league baseball player amass 22 extra base hits in 734 PAs? He's terrible. I don't care, And stolen bases have long proven to be overrated.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Jordan4life

[Thad Bosley]

Just because we don't have anybody better doesn't mean that JP sucks any less. How the f*** does a major league baseball player amass 22 extra base hits in 734 PAs? He's terrible. I don't care, And stolen bases have long proven to be overrated.

Why do you think they are overrated? Any time you can put yourself in a better position to score is a very good thing.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Just because we don't have anybody better doesn't mean that JP sucks any less. How the f*** does a major league baseball player amass 22 extra base hits in 734 PAs? He's terrible. I don't care, And stolen bases have long proven to be overrated.

 

All hatred aside, that is just patently not true.

[maggsmaggs]

Just because we don't have anybody better doesn't mean that JP sucks any less. How the f*** does a major league baseball player amass 22 extra base hits in 734 PAs? He's terrible. I don't care, And stolen bases have long proven to be overrated.

You can't have nine Barry Bonds on every team. It's only natural that some positions are going to be filled by lesser ball players. The fact of the matter is after the All-Star break JP was not terrible, before yes he was bad. JP had the same WAR last year as Adam Jones. And fielding-wise, JP had the EIGHTH BEST UZR of all outfielders. So he was a a terrific fielder. I think its a misconception that Juan Pierre sucked last year simply because he doesn't have power. He also had the ninth best WAR out of left fielders. He doesn't suck. He just doesn't have a high slugging percentage. There's a difference.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why do you think they are overrated? Any time you can put yourself in a better position to score is a very good thing.

The argument isn't even about SB's, as I think anyone will tell you they are valuable - in a vacuum. The issue is effectiveness, which comes from rate. A guy who steals 18 in 20 attempts is more valuable than a guy who steals 50 but gets caught 30. The negative value of a CS is more than the positive value of a SB.

 

 

[maggsmaggs]

Why do you think they are overrated? Any time you can put yourself in a better position to score is a very good thing.

I will agree with Jordan4life here. They have been proven to be overrated because the amount of times you fail in stealing gives up one valuable out which is more important than moving that runner up one base via the SB. SBs aren't awful if stolen at a high percentage, but they are overrated.

Edited December 9, 2010 by maggsmaggs

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why do you think they are overrated? Any time you can put yourself in a better position to score is a very good thing.

 

OBP has proven to be the best and most effective way to score runs. Give me a guy with Konerko's speed that can get on base at a .390+ clip over JP and his peak .340 clip. Juan Pierre is not a good baseball player. I believed this in 2006 when he was with the Cubs and I mocked all their fans. And I still believe this. I'll, of course, cheer for JP because he plays LF for my favorite team. But I will not mask my true feelings.

[RockRaines]

OBP has proven to be the best and most effective way to score runs. Give me a guy with Konerko's speed that can get on base at a .390+ clip over JP and his peak .340 clip. Juan Pierre is not a good baseball player. I believed this in 2006 when he was with the Cubs and I mocked all their fans. And I still believe this. I'll, of course, cheer for JP because he plays LF for my favorite team. But I will not mask my true feelings.

I dont like him much either, but every SB adds to his XBH total IMO. And there isnt really a statistic kept that can show the value of moving from 1st to 3rd or scoring on a single from second. OBP is great and all, but I would HATE having a lineup full of slow guys that cannot take an extra base.

[RockRaines]

And sorry for blowing up this thread earlier, I never said anything was happening immediately, just reporting what I heard.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Thank you for expressing your sentiments regarding Pierre. I've posted several extensive comments on White Sox Interactive about how I would like to see the Sox upgrade the outfield, starting with Pierre. The insults and attacks against my suggestions have been "over the top".

Geez, I can't help it if a guy who can't drive the ball out of the infield doesn't excite me. Apparently, a lot of the guys on that board just think that it's all about stolen bases. Pierre can do that, but that's about all he can do.

 

At any rate, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who is not enamored with J. P.'s game.

What are you still doing over there anyway? You have no reason to post anywhere other than SoxTalk.

[Jordan4life_2007]

What are you still doing over there anyway? You have no reason to post anywhere other than SoxTalk.

 

True. WSI is a horrible board. They have like 15000 Scott Merkins over there. You can't even being to say something negative about the franchise without them threatening to ban you. Makes me appreciate the great work Jason, Heads and all the guys do over here that much more.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I dont like him much either, but every SB adds to his XBH total IMO. And there isnt really a statistic kept that can show the value of moving from 1st to 3rd or scoring on a single from second. OBP is great and all, but I would HATE having a lineup full of slow guys that cannot take an extra base.

You need balance on a baseball team. I hated that deal when the Sox made it and I'm still not a fan, and boy would I love an improvement over Pierre, but I'm definitely okay with speed at the top of the lineup.

 

Besides, .390 OBP sluggers don't exactly grow on trees nor do they come cheaply. And even if they did I still wouldn't want it. It's nice to take the extra base, and it's nice to be able to put down a bunt hit or steal a bag, especially against tough pitching. It's also nice to have that one light-hitting contact/speed guy to look to when the power guys are pressing and giving away ABs late in a game. IIRC it was Juan who kept us from being embarrassingly no-hit by Ted Lilly last year.

[maggsmaggs]

True. WSI is a horrible board. They have like 15000 Scott Merkins over there. You can't even being to say something negative about the franchise without them threatening to ban you. Makes me appreciate the great work Jason, Heads and all the guys do over here that much more.

That would be bad. If you can't have arguments over your team, what's the point of posting your opinions?

[Thad Bosley]

The argument isn't even about SB's, as I think anyone will tell you they are valuable - in a vacuum. The issue is effectiveness, which comes from rate. A guy who steals 18 in 20 attempts is more valuable than a guy who steals 50 but gets caught 30. The negative value of a CS is more than the positive value of a SB.

His success rate in stealing last year was 79%, and if I'm not mistaken, the threshold for being a good stealer is 80%. So from that perspective, he was fairly effective at the craft of stealing bases last year, especially given that he accomplished the feat more than anyone else in the league. Couple that with the very good defense he featured in left field, and I hardly think we have a "terrible" player on our hands here. Great, no. Good, probably not. Decent, probably. Terrible, no. I would save the terrible label for a guy like Teahen, who for the most part is below average in almost every aspect of the game.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

True. WSI is a horrible board. They have like 15000 Scott Merkins over there. You can't even being to say something negative about the franchise without them threatening to ban you. Makes me appreciate the great work Jason, Heads and all the guys do over here that much more.

The worst is the gang mentality, it's stupid. I don't care if the mods want to ban people, it's their site, their call, and they seemed like good enough people to me. But it's annoying when a bunch of PC police wannabe mods jump on you.

 

We don't always agree J4L but I'm 100% with you on the SoxTalk staff. They do a great job and really make this the best place for baseball discussions.

[hi8is]

True. WSI is a horrible board. They have like 15000 Scott Merkins over there. You can't even being to say something negative about the franchise without them threatening to ban you. Makes me appreciate the great work Jason, Heads and all the guys do over here that much more.

I think I've been permanently banned there about 5 times.

 

They not only do not enjoy negatively charged posts - they also do not tolerate the following:

Humor

Wit

Penises

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

That would be bad. If you can't have arguments over your team, what's the point of posting your opinions?

 

I was posting there in 2007 and I was grilling KW for what had become the failed experiment in putting together a bunch of flame-throwing relievers that weren't really all that good (you remember the bullpen experiment). And I got a PM that said I was being "excessively negative" and there's "no place for that on this board" and I proceeded to leave. That board f***ing sucks.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Jordan4life

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I think I've been permanently banned there about 5 times.

 

They not only do not enjoy negatively charged posts - they also do not tolerate the following:

Humor

Wit

Penises

Oh come on, who WOULDN'T tolerate a penis??? I think you're exaggerating just a tad...

[Balta1701]

Oh come on, who WOULDN'T tolerate a penis??? I think you're exaggerating just a tad...

Especially if they're ferociously cute.

[SoxFan562004]

sorry if this has been posted a few pages back, but Heyman reporting Rangers sending delegation to meet with Lee in Little Rock and they'll stretch offer to 6 years, NYY at 7

[Jordan4life_2007]

The worst is the gang mentality, it's stupid. I don't care if the mods want to ban people, it's their site, their call, and they seemed like good enough people to me. But it's annoying when a bunch of PC police wannabe mods jump on you.

 

We don't always agree J4L but I'm 100% with you on the SoxTalk staff. They do a great job and really make this the best place for baseball discussions.

 

No doubt about it. I've never had a beef with you or caulfield ( who hates me). I love this board. I can't stay off this motherf***er for some reason. Only person I've ever had a legitimate beef with was Brandofan. And the mods took care of that p****. But I still hate the poster that goes by the name of witesoxfan.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Jordan4life