Current Compromise on Tax Cuts

[Texsox]

Overall it must be great news, Social Security is on such solid ground we can cut the money coming in. Plus we can borrow more money from China to keep government spending at such a high level. While we are pissing away our children's future, why not borrow an extra $20,000 per person and send us a big check.

 

 

 

Cut the f***ing spending or raise the taxes but don't cut income and increase spending.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Overall it must be great news, Social Security is on such solid ground we can cut the money coming in. Plus we can borrow more money from China to keep government spending at such a high level. While we are pissing away our children's future, why not borrow an extra $20,000 per person and send us a big check.

 

 

 

Cut the f***ing spending or raise the taxes but don't cut income and increase spending.

No, Tex, P***ing away your children's future = allowing the job market to continue deteriorating.

 

And it doesn't matter one iota who buys treasury bonds. If China were to begin selling them off today, their currency would skyrocket relative to ours, that would kill their manufacturing sector, send them into a giant recession, and strengthen the U.S. job market. All those complaints we hear about how China is fixing their currency to protect their economy? Same exact issue.

[Balta1701]

Oh, I could also add that some, me included, would say that truly being irresponsible is knowing that we have a couple trillion dollars worth of infrastructure work that needs to be done while at the same time having the lowest long-term interest rates in a century, and failing to take advantage of that opportunity.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I love the hypocrisy of the GOP... "we must reduce the debt... let's add $700 billlion to it by extending the tax cuts"

[Balta1701]

I love the hypocrisy of the GOP... "we must reduce the debt... let's add $700 billlion to it by extending the tax cuts"

Where'd you get that $700 b figure? Is that the figure for this compromise package?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Where'd you get that $700 b figure? Is that the figure for this compromise package?

that's what a political analyst said on WGN this morning.

 

If anyone else has heard a different number, let me know. I'm going on what I heard.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Athomeboy_2000

[Balta1701]

that's what a political analyst said on WGN this morning.

 

If anyone else has heard a different number, let me know. I'm going on what I heard.

I've read estimates of between $600 b and $900 b.

 

I'd guess the actual number probably depends on how concentrated income growth is at the top level, which probably means that it'll be towards the high end.

 

Certainly interesting to note that it's approximately the same amount as the horrible, budget-busting, worst thing eva wasteful stimulus package.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think both parts of this idea suck. I'm fine with keeping the tax cuts for those making under 250k. Tax the rich, they can handle the minor increase.

 

But I wasn't in favor of extending unemployment benefits. Maybe for a short term (6 month) time period, but at some point we gotta start weening people off and forcing them to take jobs, ANY jobs, even if its not what they want. That's the only way this thing gets turned around.

[southsider2k5]

I think both parts of this idea suck. I'm fine with keeping the tax cuts for those making under 250k. Tax the rich, they can handle the minor increase.

 

But I wasn't in favor of extending unemployment benefits. Maybe for a short term (6 month) time period, but at some point we gotta start weening people off and forcing them to take jobs, ANY jobs, even if its not what they want. That's the only way this thing gets turned around.

 

I laugh everytime I hear this.

 

Exactly what jobs are we turning down? I have been out for a year and a half now, without a single job offer.

[BigSqwert]

I laugh everytime I hear this.

 

Exactly what jobs are we turning down? I have been out for a year and a half now, without a single job offer.

For real. I log every job I apply for. So far I've turned in my resume for 34 different job postings this year. I've had one interview out of all of that.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think both parts of this idea suck. I'm fine with keeping the tax cuts for those making under 250k. Tax the rich, they can handle the minor increase.

 

But I wasn't in favor of extending unemployment benefits. Maybe for a short term (6 month) time period, but at some point we gotta start weening people off and forcing them to take jobs, ANY jobs, even if its not what they want. That's the only way this thing gets turned around.

You can't possibly think that any large percentage of UE benefits recipients are just taking a holiday. People are out of work and in most fields, hiring is way smaller than applicants.

 

If you want to argue that the cost is too high, then I can at least understand the argument. But this weird idea that the UE benefits recipients are just a bunch of lazy people is laughable.

 

[Rex Kickass]

I laugh everytime I hear this.

 

Exactly what jobs are we turning down? I have been out for a year and a half now, without a single job offer.

 

^^

 

The best part of this deal is the 13 extra months the emergency tiers get. This lets us spend a year blocking votes in the Senate on other important issues. It's also extremely stimulative, because I'm sure as SS2K can attest to, that UI money doesn't magically find its way into a 5 year CD or Money Market account.

[southsider2k5]

For real. I log every job I apply for. So far I've turned in my resume for 34 different job postings this year. I've had one interview out of all of that.

 

In all seriousness, I have probably turned in 10 times that over the year and a half I have been out. I have gotten about three interviews, though one of them might be generating another chance, as the person who was hired for the position was already promoted, and I talked to the VP who interviewed me and he wants me to come back in again.

[Chisoxfn]

Sqwert, you are in internal audit? Woudl you be willing to transfer? If so, I'll come me eye open for some IA jobs out here. What industry do you have experience in?

[southsider2k5]

^^

 

The best part of this deal is the 13 extra months the emergency tiers get. This lets us spend a year blocking votes in the Senate on other important issues. It's also extremely stimulative, because I'm sure as SS2K can attest to, that UI money doesn't magically find its way into a 5 year CD or Money Market account.

 

The lower in the income level, the more of the money that gets spent.

[BigSqwert]

Sqwert, you are in internal audit? Woudl you be willing to transfer? If so, I'll come me eye open for some IA jobs out here. What industry do you have experience in?

I'd be willing to transfer if relocation is at least partially covered. And it depends on where the location is.

 

Experience has been primarily in retail/wholesale. And yes, Internal Audit.

 

Thanks Jason!

Edited December 7, 2010 by BigSqwert

[Jenksismyhero]

You can't possibly think that any large percentage of UE benefits recipients are just taking a holiday. People are out of work and in most fields, hiring is way smaller than applicants.

 

If you want to argue that the cost is too high, then I can at least understand the argument. But this weird idea that the UE benefits recipients are just a bunch of lazy people is laughable.

 

I'm just saying that if you let those people know that in 6 months there will be no income coming in, guess what, they might have to change gears for a couple of years and take a job they normally wouldn't. I was there too. I didn't have a job after law school for almost 2 years. I got 2 part time jobs to pay the bills until I got something. It's obviously a tough situation. I'm not saying it's not.

 

I have the same view with all types of government aid like that. It often times stops being a band aid and becomes a crutch. Provide someone a house to live in, next thing you know they're demanding a better a house and payment of their bills. CLEARLY IT'S NOT THE SAME SITUATION, but my attitude towards fixing the problems tends to be the same - provide temporary relief, but let people know that decisions will need to be made because it won't continue forever.

 

And that's not to say that the government should just stop payment and do nothing else. I still think taking that money and giving small to medium size businesses huge temporary tax breaks for every new employee hired would be big. The radio this morning said there was something about a tax credit for investment and R&D costs for small businesses. They didn't say how much though. I'm in favor of that idea as well.

 

 

 

[BigSqwert]

There are 15 million people unemployed. What do you propose be done about it until most of these people find work?

[Cknolls]

Quick question. The extension of unemployment benefits: Does this cover only people whose benfits expired this past week or does it include people whose benefits expire in Jan,Feb,Mar etc?

[KipWellsFan]

Gotta agree with Tex, this seems mostly like increasing government spending and reducing revenue. Sounds pretty crazy.

 

But on the estate tax thing, would it have been zero without this deal?

[Balta1701]

Quick question. The extension of unemployment benefits: Does this cover only people whose benfits expired this past week or does it include people whose benefits expire in Jan,Feb,Mar etc?

That's difficult to answer the way you've phrased it.

 

Check the Dem thread for a different way to explain it if you don't like mine.

 

There are currently 5 "classes" of unemployed, each who have been unemployed for different lengths. The longest class, the "99ers", have been unemployed for 99 weeks now; basically since the 2008 collapse. The 99ers WILL NOT have their unemployment benefits extended by this compromise. 2 million people had their unemployment benefits end last week. NONE of them will receive any added benefits under this compromise.

 

The other 4 classes have been unemployed for less than 99 weeks. Currently, each of the other classes has a lower limit than 99 weeks, because that's how Congress does things. This bill will provide substantial unemployment extensions for just about all of those classes, pushing most of them up towards 99.

 

No one will receive more than 99 weeks of unemployment benefits because of this. Most of the people who's benefits expire in January-March will also receive nothing from this compromise. By the end of March, somewhere around 6 million people will have fully exhausted their unemployment benefits.

[Balta1701]

But on the estate tax thing, would it have been zero without this deal?

No. Like all the Bush tax cuts, that was passed under reconciliation rules that required it to end 10 years after passage. The law as written stated that the estate tax was 0% on all levels this year, and was to return to 50% on estates above >$4 million or so next year.

 

This deal therefore includes an estate tax cut relative to current law. This deal also includes an estate tax rate cut relative to every year of the Bush administration's tax cuts except for this year, the final year, when it went to 0.

[Balta1701]

And that's not to say that the government should just stop payment and do nothing else. I still think taking that money and giving small to medium size businesses huge temporary tax breaks for every new employee hired would be big. The radio this morning said there was something about a tax credit for investment and R&D costs for small businesses. They didn't say how much though. I'm in favor of that idea as well.

First point...that actually happened. The Dems finally broke a nearly-year-long filibuster on doing that back in September.

 

Second...the payroll tax cut on the employer side is also very similar in its impact.

[Balta1701]

The lower in the income level, the more of the money that gets spent.

When did you turn into a hippy?

[Jenksismyhero]

First point...that actually happened. The Dems finally broke a nearly-year-long filibuster on doing that back in September.

 

Second...the payroll tax cut on the employer side is also very similar in its impact.

 

Which did they do back in September?