Multiple Sources: Sox actively shopping Quentin

[joeynach]

Teahen and Jones worth 2 to 3 times that of Quentin? Really? Quentin mashes RHP. His OPS against RHP blows Teahen's OPS vs. RHP away, and if you saw Mark Teahen play RF, he isn't a big upgrade defensively over Quentin either, in fact, he may be worse. And don't even mention they will make approximately the same amount of money.Jones vs. LHP and defensively is obviously better at least all around, but he's also had 3 or 4 months in a row for 3 straight seasons where he did absolutely nothing.

 

Ok lets settle the Quentin as a defender argument right now. There is no doubt he is bad, however if you look at his Rfield statistic it will tell you what you need to know. Rfield measures the number of runs better or worse than average the player was for all fielding. Basically CQ had a career worst year defensively last year, absolutely brutal. However, prior to 2010 he wasnt great, but he wasnt that bad. I would expect him to bounce back defensively quite a bit, you have to be pretty horrific to post consecutive -20 Rfield numbers.

 

2006: +3

2007: +12

2008: -2

2009: -9

2010: -20

[Balta1701]

Ok lets settle the Quentin as a defender argument right now. There is no doubt he is bad, however if you look at his Rfield statistic it will tell you what you need to know. Rfield measures the number of runs better or worse than average the player was for all fielding. Basically CQ had a career worst year defensively last year, absolutely brutal. However, prior to 2010 he wasnt great, but he wasnt that bad. I would expect him to bounce back defensively quite a bit, you have to be pretty horrific to post consecutive -20 Rfield numbers.

 

2006: +3

2007: +12

2008: -2

2009: -9

2010: -20

Does 2009 account for the fact that he only played about 1/2 the year? Because if that scales up linearly with playing time, then he did post consecutive -20 seasons.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

From a real simple and imperfect fan scouting perspective, CQ on defense is 1) not very baseball-smart, 2) gets bad reads a lot, 3) has very little closing or makeup speed, 4) can be aggressive in the field and will go all out on a play at times, 5) has a strong arm that can be accurate when he's throwing to the proper base.

 

An arm alone is not enough to play RF. However, in a small park especially, playing LF gives the Sox at least the benefit of cutting down guys looking to take the extra base/score on somewhat shallow sac flies, so the huge loss in range is partly offset if nothing else. Ideally, since Ozzie rests his guys a lot, CQ would play LF normally but *always* DH when PK or Dunn get the day off. That would help minimize the damage he does defensively. Of course, anyone who DH's Omar Vizquel is liable to do really stupid things with Carlos. As long as Carlos is just being good, not even great, by working to minimize his OF time and keeping him in LF when he is out there, the bat will compensate for the loss of D IMO. The key is dumping Pierre or making him 4th OF while picking up a legit RF. Pierre shouldn't even be on this team IMO. He's a leftover from one of Kenny's worst offseasons ever.

[Lillian]

From a real simple and imperfect fan scouting perspective, CQ on defense is 1) not very baseball-smart, 2) gets bad reads a lot, 3) has very little closing or makeup speed, 4) can be aggressive in the field and will go all out on a play at times, 5) has a strong arm that can be accurate when he's throwing to the proper base.

 

An arm alone is not enough to play RF. However, in a small park especially, playing LF gives the Sox at least the benefit of cutting down guys looking to take the extra base/score on somewhat shallow sac flies, so the huge loss in range is partly offset if nothing else. Ideally, since Ozzie rests his guys a lot, CQ would play LF normally but *always* DH when PK or Dunn get the day off. That would help minimize the damage he does defensively. Of course, anyone who DH's Omar Vizquel is liable to do really stupid things with Carlos. As long as Carlos is just being good, not even great, by working to minimize his OF time and keeping him in LF when he is out there, the bat will compensate for the loss of D IMO. The key is dumping Pierre or making him 4th OF while picking up a legit RF. Pierre shouldn't even be on this team IMO. He's a leftover from one of Kenny's worst offseasons ever.

 

AMEN!!!! You knew that I would agree with you on Pierre. But then who would lead off?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

[/b]

 

AMEN!!!! You knew that I would agree with you on Pierre. But then who would lead off?

If we get a legit RF who can hit a bit then I don't even care. Believe me, I LOVE prototypical lead-off men, I really really do. But Pierre is NOT that. Of course in the real world the Sox would move Carlos if the choice were him or Pierre because that's the type of s*** they do.

[Lillian]

If we get a legit RF who can hit a bit then I don't even care. Believe me, I LOVE prototypical lead-off men, I really really do. But Pierre is NOT that. Of course in the real world the Sox would move Carlos if the choice were him or Pierre because that's the type of s*** they do.

 

Again, I agree. How Pierre could ever be considered preferable to Quentin is beyond my comprehension. It's because many way over value stolen bases.

I'll take the higher OBP, and the RBI production any time.

[Balta1701]

Again, I agree. How Pierre could ever be considered preferable to Quentin is beyond my comprehension. It's because many way over value stolen bases.

I'll take the higher OBP, and the RBI production any time.

Again we go through this.

 

OBP the last 2 years:

Carlos Quentin: .323, .342. Career number; .347.

Juan Pierre: .365, .341. Career number; .347.

 

I don't really care about RBI's since those are a product of whether or not people are on base. There's a monstrous slugging difference between the two, and the 2008 version of Carlos Quentin had a massive OBP, but that version hasn't shown up any other year. Right now, there's no good reason to assume that Carlos Quentin will give you a better OBP than Juan Pierre. If you want to rip pierre, at least get the stats right.

[Lillian]

Again we go through this.

 

OBP the last 2 years:

Carlos Quentin: .323, .342. Career number; .347.

Juan Pierre: .365, .341. Career number; .347.

 

I don't really care about RBI's since those are a product of whether or not people are on base. There's a monstrous slugging difference between the two, and the 2008 version of Carlos Quentin had a massive OBP, but that version hasn't shown up any other year. Right now, there's no good reason to assume that Carlos Quentin will give you a better OBP than Juan Pierre. If you want to rip pierre, at least get the stats right.

 

Yes, if you look at the last two years, you're right. However, he only played part time in '09, and if you go back to the 4 years prior to that, you get a completely different set of numbers.

Playing pretty much full time, Pierre's OBP was consistently around .327. Watching him last year, I would guess that .327 is more like what we should expect next year.

He had one insanely good month that brought his totals way up, but can you honestly say that you were favorably impressed the rest of the season?

 

Quentin admittedly had a pretty bad year, and was hobbled with the plantar faciitis in '09, but we've seen what he is capable of doing, and I prefer that presence and potential.

 

In any case, I didn't want to rehash any of this stuff. I was merely voicing my agreement with "Kenny Hates Pros".

Edited December 13, 2010 by Lillian

[Balta1701]

He had one insanely good month that brought his totals way up, but can you honestly say that you were favorably impressed the rest of the season?

No, I'd call his performance adequate. I'd call Carlos's disappointing, because I was hoping/expecting a ton more.

[Lillian]

No, I'd call his performance adequate. I'd call Carlos's disappointing, because I was hoping/expecting a ton more.

 

Yes, I think that expresses my sentiment exactly. I continue to hope and expect "a ton more" from Quentin, who is five years younger than Pierre.

Contrastly, I would expect Juan to be in decline as a result of losing a step with age, and his dependence upon speed. It's hard to imagine that he would do any better than his last seasons performance.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Lillian

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

I don't really care whichever way... I'm not gonna be all like "DUDE! OMG!!" if he gets traded and if he stays, meh, whatever.

 

But realistically, its hard to imagine him being any worse next season. He was a complete writeoff in 2009 offensively (his power numbers were greatly inflated by a 4-homer week early on in the season) and last year was just "blech". But looking at some recent "power" hitters that sustained wrist injuries, it took a good 18-24 months for them to return to full strength. Wouldn't surprise me in Quentin mashed again this season. But conversely, he could also mail it in again.

 

So what I am saying is... I don't know if he'll be any good and I don't have a decisive opinion for or against trading him.

[SoxAce]

Ok lets settle the Quentin as a defender argument right now. There is no doubt he is bad, however if you look at his Rfield statistic it will tell you what you need to know. Rfield measures the number of runs better or worse than average the player was for all fielding. Basically CQ had a career worst year defensively last year, absolutely brutal. However, prior to 2010 he wasnt great, but he wasnt that bad. I would expect him to bounce back defensively quite a bit, you have to be pretty horrific to post consecutive -20 Rfield numbers.

 

2006: +3

2007: +12

2008: -2

2009: -9

2010: -20

 

Quentin is not the same defensive stud that he was in Zona or even in Stanford (that I loved to see play back then) since he f***ed up his shoulder and had surgery on it.

[NorthSideSox72]

Quentin is not the same defensive stud that he was in Zona or even in Stanford (that I loved to see play back then) since he f***ed up his shoulder and had surgery on it.

I just don't get how that can result in so many bad reads and routes though. There has to be more to it than his injury.

 

[ptatc]

I just don't get how that can result in so many bad reads and routes though. There has to be more to it than his injury.

 

There should be. I don't see how left shoulder surgery on a right handed thrower makes much difference unless it is that he is tentative in his approach. He did have TJ surgery on his right elbow but that shouldn't bother his throwing a few years later.