Multiple Sources: Sox actively shopping Quentin

[beck72]

It makes sense to see what the sox can get for Carlos. If no offers are near his value, they should just hold onto him. Viciedo is more likely traded as he doesn't have a spot with the sox. The sox don't have a viable replacement for Q and I don't know how many teams would give fair value for Carlos. Dayan more likely would see more offers that could give the sox a decent package.

 

Garza is worth more than Carlos. I could see Tampa doing more of a Ben Zobrist for Quentin deal than Garza for Q. Both Zobrist and Q have questions and making similar money. But Zobrist is on a long term deal now.

[Lemon_44]

It seems like Ozzie talks alot about Quentin being the key to the offense. I think they'd have to blown away to trade him. I wouldn't trade him.

[Lillian]

The kinds of names that have come up in previous, recent speculation regarding Quentin are guys like Dunn, and Rasmus.

Judging from that, I hope that Carlos would only be moved for someone of that calibre.

I mentioned Dominic Brown because I would regard him as both an appealing return for Quentin, and because the Phillies might be a good fit for that kind of trade with the Sox.

 

Of course, Brown is unproven. However, he is young, cheap, a potential star 3 or 4 tool outfielder, and is left handed.

Here are a couple of old scouting reports:

 

http://baseballbeginnings.com/2009/12/05/d...ic-brown-report

http://razzball.com/scouting-the-unknown-8-5-09/

 

Some of you think that he's not a good enough return for Quentin, while others think that the Phillies would never make such a trade, though it would fill one of their stated highest priority needs. So, I have no idea. All I know is that trading Carlos for bullpen arms would not make me at all happy.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Lillian

[JohnCangelosi]

I think we gotta give TCQ one more year to see if he can get his head straight, as the 2008 version would make our offense pretty sick. I realize that was a while ago but again I think we should give him one more year, seems he will be 100% starting spring training with no nagging injuries. If we've gone this far why can't we just spend another 3-4 million on two halfway decent relievers who have some experience under their belt? It seems silly to spend all this money on PK, Dunn, etc and then start the season with a few minor leaguers working out of the pen....

[soxrwhite]

I think we gotta give TCQ one more year to see if he can get his head straight, as the 2008 version would make our offense pretty sick. I realize that was a while ago but again I think we should give him one more year, seems he will be 100% starting spring training with no nagging injuries. If we've gone this far why can't we just spend another 3-4 million on two halfway decent relievers who have some experience under their belt? It seems silly to spend all this money on PK, Dunn, etc and then start the season with a few minor leaguers working out of the pen....

 

 

This makes sense to me.

[Springfield Soxfan]

I think we gotta give TCQ one more year to see if he can get his head straight, as the 2008 version would make our offense pretty sick. I realize that was a while ago but again I think we should give him one more year, seems he will be 100% starting spring training with no nagging injuries. If we've gone this far why can't we just spend another 3-4 million on two halfway decent relievers who have some experience under their belt? It seems silly to spend all this money on PK, Dunn, etc and then start the season with a few minor leaguers working out of the pen....

I agree as well if TCQ is healthy, this lineup is stacked!! Use prospects to get bullpen help (if possible), the thoughts and potential for this lineup are scary.

[Vote4Pedro]

It seems like Ozzie talks alot about Quentin being the key to the offense. I think they'd have to blown away to trade him. I wouldn't trade him.

ozzie talked about him being the key to the offense last year and you saw where that got us

[Dick Allen]

ozzie talked about him being the key to the offense last year and you saw where that got us

Quentin had a higher OPS than Rios yet a lot of people want Rios to bat 3rd in 2011. You don't trade Carlos Quentin for something run of the mill. While he is brutal in the OF, at the plate even when he's having a bad year, he's better than most, and if he puts it all together we all know he's MVP-calibur.

[beck72]

I think we gotta give TCQ one more year to see if he can get his head straight, as the 2008 version would make our offense pretty sick. I realize that was a while ago but again I think we should give him one more year, seems he will be 100% starting spring training with no nagging injuries. If we've gone this far why can't we just spend another 3-4 million on two halfway decent relievers who have some experience under their belt? It seems silly to spend all this money on PK, Dunn, etc and then start the season with a few minor leaguers working out of the pen....

The thinking seems to be if Carlos can be traded for a somewhat proven bullpen arm + other players [probably prospects not that far away from the bigs]. The sox will probably find that Carlos isn't going to get the return they need and will keep him.

 

If anyone would be expendable, IMO, it's Viciedo. Esp. as the two spots talked about, 1b and DH, are wrapped up for the next 3, 4 years. He's too valuable as a trade chip to stow away in AAA as insurance should one of those 2 big guys go down.

[beck72]

This has all the makings of a classic non-trade. Few teams will give up what Carlos potentially is worth, so the Sox hold onto him. Yet even if the Sox hold onto him and Carlos has another bad, injury riddled 2011, the return this off-season would barely have been worth it.

 

Even a decent year by Carlos will likely be an "upgrade" over whatever any other team would have trade for him. And the possibility remains that he can come close to his 2008 year.

 

I've talked myself into it--Kenny, keep Carlos. And have a late inning defensive specialist ready in the 7th inning to take over for him.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The A's need offense. I like Josh Outman but he's had surgery and has missed a LOT of time. OTOH he's supposedly healthy going into this year and would be a great buy low candidate, and he's expendable with the staff the A's have. I'm also a fan of Henry Rodriguez. A Quentin for Outman + Rodriguez deal could potentially net us a lefty reliever for 2011 and lefty starter beyond, with Rodriguez a potential closer. I'd want more though because of all the uncertainty around Outman.

 

I'd be extremely happy with Quentin + Infante for Crisp + Rodriguez + Outman, although I'm sure not Beane would touch that.

 

Back that deal up with Viciedo + prospects for Garza, then package Pierre and Teahen ($13.25M combined) for an OF on a bad contract. Send prospects depending on the player. Beltran and cash would rule, but I'd be happy with Fukudome too. This replaces Pierre and gives us an OF of Crisp (leading off) in LF, Rios in CF, actual RF playing RF. The bullpen gains its third lefty and a righty setup man/potential closer. Then take all 6 starters and make them all available, and take whichever deal makes the most baseball sense. Or, maybe we keep all 6 until Peavy comes back. Someone may get hurt/stay hurt and we'll need the extra depth. We'd technically have 8 starters at that point, 9 if you're including Pena.

 

 

[caulfield12]

It's going to take a lot more than Viciedo to get Garza. Who else do we have in the minors that would possibly that deal work? Would you trade Viciedo and Mitchell for him? And then we'd only have Garza for one or two years, right?

 

Other than Carlos Beltran and Vernon Wells, what CFers out there with the type of atrocious contracts that want to take Juan Pierre and Mark Teahen? Even with a bad contract for both those two (or Fukudome), I'm not sure why I would want two players that will have a negligible affect on any rebuilding ballclub. If it's a team like the Mets, they're not going to want to totally demoralize their fanbase by starting Pierre AND Teahen, even if they are saving, let's say, $8-10 million, on Beltran.

 

Why is CoCo Crisp leading off a good idea? Is he a significant upgrade over Pierre? How likely is he actually to stay healthy? If he goes down, we're looking at playing Jordan Danks or our 4th/5th outfielder, whoever that is. Trying to replace a starter during the regular season will be even more expensive....in terms of prospects surrendered or giving up all our remaining minor league prospects.

 

Even if we tried to trade one of our starters, we're not going to get much back unless it's for Floyd/Danks/Garza...and then your strength is a weakness again because you can't count on either Outman or Peavy at this point. And you count Sale and Pena as "starters" on KW's big board of depth, but things still start looking very ugly in 2013.

 

It's like the Twins, even without Pavano, they have Liriano/Duensing/Baker/Blackburn/Slowey and Gibson, so but you're never going to see them trade one of those last three until they're sure what they've got in Gibson at the major league level.

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

KW shoots down CQ trade rumor.

 

http://twitter.com/davandyck/status/13627784962248704

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It's going to take a lot more than Viciedo to get Garza. Who else do we have in the minors that would possibly that deal work? Would you trade Viciedo and Mitchell for him? And then we'd only have Garza for one or two years, right?

 

Other than Carlos Beltran and Vernon Wells, what CFers out there with the type of atrocious contracts that want to take Juan Pierre and Mark Teahen? Even with a bad contract for both those two (or Fukudome), I'm not sure why I would want two players that will have a negligible affect on any rebuilding ballclub. If it's a team like the Mets, they're not going to want to totally demoralize their fanbase by starting Pierre AND Teahen, even if they are saving, let's say, $8-10 million, on Beltran.

 

Why is CoCo Crisp leading off a good idea? Is he a significant upgrade over Pierre? How likely is he actually to stay healthy? If he goes down, we're looking at playing Jordan Danks or our 4th/5th outfielder, whoever that is. Trying to replace a starter during the regular season will be even more expensive....in terms of prospects surrendered or giving up all our remaining minor league prospects.

 

Even if we tried to trade one of our starters, we're not going to get much back unless it's for Floyd/Danks/Garza...and then your strength is a weakness again because you can't count on either Outman or Peavy at this point. And you count Sale and Pena as "starters" on KW's big board of depth, but things still start looking very ugly in 2013.

 

It's like the Twins, even without Pavano, they have Liriano/Duensing/Baker/Blackburn/Slowey and Gibson, so but you're never going to see them trade one of those last three until they're sure what they've got in Gibson at the major league level.

Viciedo is good enough to serve as the centerpiece for Garza. The Rays like relievers of Bellamy's ilk, maybe him and a throw-in is enough to beat the unknown Cubs package.

 

Pierre may not be worth $8.5M but he's probably worth $3-4M easily. Teahen is worth at least $2M per, maybe even a bit more to an NL club as a LH PH and interleague DH, so if the Sox throw in cash in 2012 he's a nice addition. The Mets are going to have to send cash to move Beltran and it's always far better to get some value out of a bad contract rather than just eating a bunch of cash. A Beltran deal would probably have to be centered around someone like Thompson, who has a high ceiling but is far away, and another spare part that might contribute, like Leesman or something. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Beltran bringing in a blue chip prospect at this point. You're not trading for Carlos Beltran the All-Star, you're trading for Carlos Beltran the bounce-back candidate on a bad contract. And at his contract value he's not getting an arb offer, so you're not trading him with the idea of collecting picks after he leaves to FA either.

 

Fukudome is a 4th OF for the Cubs. They have Soriano, Byrd, and Colvin. Pierre can be their 4th OF and Teahen can improve their bench. If the Sox throw in $3-3.5M in 2012 then having Teahen reasonably in 2012 makes this even better for them. This deal would help out both teams.

 

Yes, Coco Crisp is a significant improvement over Juan Pierre. If he gets hurt... you can say that about anyone. But it doesn't take a worldbeater to replace what would have been Juan Pierre's production. You put DeAza there, or grab a Reed Johnson for little to nothing, something like that. You don't have to sell the farm to spot patch that kind of loss.

 

Nobody cares about 2013 right now. If we did we never would have paid Paulie $6.5M that year when Dunn is already here and you know PK is going to be a DH then. It's pretty clear what is going on IMO. Jackson and MB are off the books after 2011 and CQ, Danks, Floyd, and Alexei are going to start getting really expensive. If the Sox can't win in 2011 and position themselves for a high payroll in 2012 then they have basically no other option but firesale.

[Dick Allen]

KW shoots down CQ trade rumor.

 

http://twitter.com/davandyck/status/13627784962248704

Cowley is wrong again? Say it ain't so Joe. Try again. One of your guesses is bound to be right someday.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

KW shoots down CQ trade rumor.

 

http://twitter.com/davandyck/status/13627784962248704

Interesting how that is worded. Saying that there isn't truth to trade rumors out there is different than saying "Carlos is not available."

[Dick Allen]

Interesting how that is worded. Saying that there isn't truth to trade rumors out there is different than saying "Carlos is not available."

As JR said everyone has his price except for Michael Jordan. Cowley said they were "actively shopping him", which apparently couldn't be further from the truth.

[Real]

KW shoots down CQ trade rumor.

 

http://twitter.com/davandyck/status/13627784962248704

 

just like when KW shot down the rumor of trading Beckham and then offered him for A-Gon

[Buehrlesque]

Cowley is wrong again? Say it ain't so Joe. Try again. One of your guesses is bound to be right someday.

What do you expect KW to say, "We are desperate to unload Quentin and are currently initiating lots of trade talk"?

[caulfield12]

Yes, Coco Crisp is a significant improvement over Juan Pierre. If he gets hurt... you can say that about anyone. But it doesn't take a worldbeater to replace what would have been Juan Pierre's production. You put DeAza there, or grab a Reed Johnson for little to nothing, something like that. You don't have to sell the farm to spot patch that kind of loss.

 

The problem is that is we've seen firsthand how difficult it is to find bullpen replacements (2006-2007/2010), CFers since Rowand, a fifth starter (2001-2004), a quality lead-off hitter, a DH last year, etc.

 

I'm not going to put Crisp in the Nick Johnson category, but there's no way I would feel confident in him staying healthy for a full season.....same with Andruw Jones. There's calcuated risk (bringing in Putz/Jones/Vizquel on value contracts), and then there's even higher risk.

 

This whole idea of patching losses easily took a big hit last year with the whole Mark Kotsay fiasco. We said it in the offseason...up until the season started, and then again in June/July. Still, no solution.

 

 

 

 

[TheChrisSamsa]

Interesting how that is worded. Saying that there isn't truth to trade rumors out there is different than saying "Carlos is not available."

 

He also went onto say "We won't be trading a piece of the everyday lineup for relief pitching."

 

http://twitter.com/#!/davandyck/status/13638107970674688

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

He also went onto say "We won't be trading a piece of the everyday lineup for relief pitching."

 

http://twitter.com/#!/davandyck/status/13638107970674688

That is sooo great to hear. I hope he's not bulls***ting.

[sircaffey]

The original rumor doesn't say they were looking to trade Quentin for relief pitching. It says for "a package that includes at least 1 reliever." That's a very different wording.

[TheChrisSamsa]

The original rumor doesn't say they were looking to trade Quentin for relief pitching. It says for "a package that includes at least 1 reliever." That's a very different wording.

 

True, and I like the idea of "atleast 1 reliever" if it brings back a potential position-piece to the MLB club too. As Sox fans, we might be under-valuing Quentin because he's frustrating to watch everyday, but he's a commodity that I'm sure the organization will value properly.

[sircaffey]

True, and I like the idea of "atleast 1 reliever" if it brings back a potential position-piece to the MLB club too. As Sox fans, we might be under-valuing Quentin because he's frustrating to watch everyday, but he's a commodity that I'm sure the organization will value properly.

Under-value? I'd say over-value, personally.