Cliff Lee signs with Phillies

[LittleHurt05]

1. Wow. Halladay/Oswalt/Lee/Hamels. It doesn't get much better than that.

 

2. The Yankees are in dire need of a starter now and they sure as hell can't sign Carl Pavano. It should be interesting to see what move they can conjure up.

 

3. The rich keep getting richer in the MLB, the Phillies are right up there now with BOS & NYY. As a Sox fan, I can't really say much either cause the Sox are spending more than most other teams too.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So if my math is correct, and it's probably not as I suck at math, the Phillies are currently sporting a rotation that will make around $80 million next year? I can't remember if the Phillies got any cash back from the Oswalt trade. But give or take a few million and $80 sounds about right.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

agreed....and its a decent possibility. Oswalt was trending in the wrong direction before his rebound year last year (ERAs of 3.18, 3.54, 4.12).

 

Disclaimer: By no means am I about to say that cliff Lee is bad or anything like that.

I do think cliff lee is overrated though. He's being paid top 5 starter money, for a guy who is 26-22 with roughly a 3.20 ERA over the last two seasons. Still very good numbers, but given the fact that he is on the wrong side of 30, and is just 3 years removed from being a 29 year old with a 6.29 ERA who got sent back to the minors, I think there is considerably more risk in these deal than most people realize.

Chances are the contract eventually becomes an albatross, however, Jaime Moyer is always out there as an example of someone who struggled while they were young and turned it on as an older pitcher and really aged well. He's a one in a million probably and is probably a bad example, but he is an example. Personally, unless I was the Yankees and can make $100 million mistakes without it really harming me, I don't think I would have offered Lee the money.

[Dick Allen]

1. Wow. Halladay/Oswalt/Lee/Hamels. It doesn't get much better than that.

 

2. The Yankees are in dire need of a starter now and they sure as hell can't sign Carl Pavano. It should be interesting to see what move they can conjure up.

 

3. The rich keep getting richer in the MLB, the Phillies are right up there now with BOS & NYY. As a Sox fan, I can't really say much either cause the Sox are spending more than most other teams too.

They won't sign Pavano, Greinke in NY is probably a horrible idea. I doubt Tampa wants to trade Garza to them. It will be interesting to see how they fill out their rotation.

[LittleHurt05]

So if my math is correct, and it's probably not as I suck at math, the Phillies are currently sporting a rotation that will make around $80 million next year? I can't remember if the Phillies got any cash back from the Oswalt trade. But give or take a few million and $80 sounds about right.

 

According to BR.com:

 

Halladay - $20 mil

Oswalt - $16 mil (-$7 mil from Astros)

Lee - $24 mil

Hamels - $9.5 mil

Blanton - $8.5 mil

 

So thats about $78 million in the rotation, $71 mil of which they pay themselves.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Chances are the contract eventually becomes an albatross, however, Jaime Moyer is always out there as an example of someone who struggled while they were young and turned it on as an older pitcher and really aged well. He's a one in a million probably and is probably a bad example, but he is an example. Personally, unless I was the Yankees and can make $100 million mistakes without it really harming me, I don't think I would have offered Lee the money.

 

Between the ridiculous Howard extension and this move, the Phillies basically are the Yankees. Not to the exact same degree. But I'm stunned they were able to pull this off. Their 4-year tear through the NL has obviously generated quite a bit of coin and they're spending it.

[Jordan4life_2007]

According to BR.com:

 

Halladay - $20 mil

Oswalt - $16 mil (-$7 mil from Astros)

Lee - $24 mil

Hamels - $9.5 mil

Blanton - $8.5 mil

 

So thats about $78 million in the rotation, $71 mil of which they pay themselves.

 

Thanks. I wasn't sure if they got any money back from the Astros. Otherwise I was just a couple million off. But even at $71 million, that's just crazy to think about.

[beautox]

Yeah, the Rays might be the biggest winners of this deal (Phils aside).

 

Agreed; but it appears the Yanks are going to be locked out of nearly all the talent thats available via trade. I can't forsee the rays trading garza within the division to the yanks and they don't have ML ready prospects or talent to fill the holes that the rays have. Also on the ZG front, I might be mistaken but I could've sworn, he said he wouldn't goto a big market club like New York.

[justBLAZE]

I hear Phillies have a deal in place that sends Blanton to Boston Red Sox, per Rosenthal, Heyman.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I hear Phillies have a deal in place that sends Blanton to Boston Red Sox, per Rosenthal, Heyman.

 

I definitely see Mike Cameron being involved in such a deal.

[Balta1701]

Chances are the contract eventually becomes an albatross, however, Jaime Moyer is always out there as an example of someone who struggled while they were young and turned it on as an older pitcher and really aged well. He's a one in a million probably and is probably a bad example, but he is an example. Personally, unless I was the Yankees and can make $100 million mistakes without it really harming me, I don't think I would have offered Lee the money.

It's not just the Lee contract that the Phitins are holding that could become an albatross. They're really becoming the Yankees in more ways than 1...yes they seemingly have every big name available now, but just like the Yankees, you can look and say "gosh, every one of their big names is getting up there in age".

 

They will make the playoffs because even if 2 of their big names have injury problems they're still a loaded team, but we've seen already that giving a ton of money to 30+ year olds can be just as much of a weakness as a strength.

[beautox]

I definitely see Mike Cameron being involved in such a deal.

 

Indeed. Boston's quasi youth movement is going to be fun to watch between this season and next. I think they give the keys to Lowrie and move Scutaro for pieces as well, and then after JD drew leaves next year or gets hurt during this year they have Kalish and Nava ready to step in, all though i think Nava breaks camp as the 4th OF and Kalish gets a bit more polish at AAA.

[Balta1701]

Indeed. Boston's quasi youth movement is going to be fun to watch between this season and next. I think they give the keys to Lowrie and move Scutaro for pieces as well, and then after JD drew leaves next year or gets hurt during this year they have Kalish and Nava ready to step in, all though i think Nava breaks camp as the 4th OF and Kalish gets a bit more polish at AAA.

Youth Movement = spending $300 million on Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Youth Movement = spending $300 million on Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez.

 

Obviously he wasn't talking youth movement as in a Marlins or Royals type of youth movement. But the Red Sox have obsessed over the farm and player development since Theo took over and they, according to "experts", have capable replacements all over the place (save catcher, which they have nothing) and a bevy of draft picks coming up with the Martinez and eventual Beltre signings. And when your core consists of Gonzalez, Crawford, Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester Buchholz and Bard, you don't need these guys to be elite.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jordan4life

[Balta1701]

you don't need these guys to be elite.

In other words...it's not exactly a youth movement.

[ThunderBolt]

The last time the White Sox liked Yankees prospects we came back with Jeff Marquez. Stay away. And as nice as it is to see the Yankees come away with nothing here, the Phillies are becoming just as bad.

[Balta1701]

The last time the White Sox liked Yankees prospects we came back with Jeff Marquez. Stay away. And as nice as it is to see the Yankees come away with nothing here, the Phillies are becoming just as bad.

The Sox didn't do that deal for Marquez, even though they may have sold it that way. They did the Swisher deal to get rid of Nick Swisher and Nick Swisher's contract.

[BigSqwert]

More evidence that a salary cap is sorely needed in MLB.

[witesoxfan]

The last time the White Sox liked Yankees prospects we came back with Jeff Marquez. Stay away. And as nice as it is to see the Yankees come away with nothing here, the Phillies are becoming just as bad.

 

Again, I don't think the White Sox liked those prospects as much as they didn't like Nick Swisher. They felt as though they needed to get rid of him and then you have to try and spin that into a positive somehow. So "we like what Jeff Marquez did in Arizona and think he has good stuff" was essentially code for "Nick Swisher is the devil."

[beautox]

Youth Movement = spending $300 million on Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez.

 

i said quasi

 

quasi-

combining form

seemingly; apparently but not really

 

having said that and getting back on topic, yes the red sox just dropped a ton of coin on crawford and gonzalez, but they've still got a strong farm to supplement talent at the major league level and up the middle no less. I also think Boston signs Martin and he turns it around in Fenway.

[Jordan4life_2007]

i said quasi

 

quasi-

combining form

seemingly; apparently but not really

 

having said that and getting back on topic, yes the red sox just dropped a ton of coin on crawford and gonzalez, but they've still got a strong farm to supplement talent at the major league level and up the middle no less. I also think Boston signs Martin and he turns it around in Fenway.

 

I know what you meant. The Red Sox have become the model franchise in baseball and I'm very, very, very jealous.

[BigSqwert]

I know what you meant. The Red Sox have become the model franchise in baseball and I'm very, very, very jealous.

Sure makes it a lot easier with a payroll that size.

[Rooftop Shots]

Ralph Kramden's reaction became the epitomy of what the fans in Philadelphia must have reacted like when they saw the news on TV about Lees Signing and saw the rotation of Haliday.... Cy Young winner, perfecr game, no hitterLee...........Cy Young winnerOswalt..... (2 time 20 game winnerHamels....(World series MVPBlanton....(eh....some families add a little soybean filler in their hamburger

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sure makes it a lot easier with a payroll that size.

 

That's the easy response. But they spend on the draft and have become a player development machine. Look at their current core, guys all in their 20's that came up through their system: Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon and Bard. You're talking all-star to MVP caliber right there. When your system can produce that much then yes, it's A LOT easier to flex your financial muscle. And then have enough to land a bonafide superstar (Gonzalez) and still have valuable pieces in the system? I won't discount the financial advantages they have. But it's certainly not as simple as "well, they can spend x amount of dollars."

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jordan4life

[witesoxfan]

That's the easy response. But they spend on the draft and have become a player development machine. Look at their current core, guys all in their 20's that came up through their system: Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Buchholz and Bard. You're talking all-star to MVP caliber right there. When your system can produce that much then yes, it's A LOT easier to flex your financial muscle. And then have enough to land a bonafide superstar (Gonzalez) and still have valuable pieces in the system? I won't discount the financial advantages they have. But it's certainly not as simple as "well, they can spend x amount of dollars."

 

Having the ability to retain those players is pretty important though too. I mean, before moving into Target Field and resigning Mauer (and Morneau, Cuddyer, and the smaller extensions), how many players did the Twins either trade or lose to free agency simply because they couldn't afford to keep them? Same thing with Tampa Bay and Milwaukee, and going back a few years, Cleveland and Oakland too. Boston spending as much as they do on the MLB roster does have a huge effect on their team, regardless of whether they are producing those players or not. Had Youkilis come up with Oakland and had this much success, do you think there's any way he's still with them today? I would say there is no shot in hell of that.