White Sox sign Jesse Crain

[Leonard Washington]

To clear things up a little bit, Putz signed for 2Y/$11.5MM. The first two years are worth $10MM, and he has a $1.5MM buyout for the 3rd year option. So he's guaranteed $11.5MM.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Pale Sox

[claydude14]

Finally a Rochester Red Wing to be excited about!

 

F U TWINKS! Kudos to Jerry for manning up like a man for a twink and not like a twink twinking up for a man.

[fathom]

Yes, I think there should be plenty of cushion given to the GM that operates the way he does, and in particular this offseason. Because regardless of the outcome, there is only so much over which he has absolute control. The actual performance of Dunn, PK, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Rios, Crain, Thornton, etc. is not really in his control.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Someone like Peavy had huge question marks coming over to the AL and leaving the pitcher's haven that is PetCo. There were also a lot of red flags that existed with Peavy that people in the baseball industry had over his long term productivity. KW took a huge risk by taking on that contract, and if he could get out of that deal, it seems likely he would right now.

[Dick Allen]

It's still not the same thing. Not even close. As a GM, you're performance is soley based on what's available to you and what you have to offer/spend. If you make the effort to get the best free agents available and spend the money, there's no reason for fans to complain about that. Especially when fans will complain when you DON'T spend money and DON'T effor to make the big moves. Then, after you acquire those players, you're still dependant on them to perform to their capbilities.

 

You're missing the point anyway when I use the word "effort". I'm not talking about how many hours per day he works, I'm talking about him making the decision to land the aboslute best available and directing all the resources toward doing that.

 

Yes, I think there should be plenty of cushion given to the GM that operates the way he does, and in particular this offseason. Because regardless of the outcome, there is only so much over which he has absolute control. The actual performance of Dunn, PK, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Rios, Crain, Thornton, etc. is not really in his control.

 

What I'm saying is, if a GM puts together a good team on paper, that's all that can be realistically asked of him.

If his choices are Player A or Player B or Player C vs. Player D, if he picks A and C and B and D outperform them, he didn't do his job. His job isn't just to pick the players with the best track records. His job is also to project. How does any GM lose their job? Their success is all contigent on players' performances they have no control over, but they do have control over the roster, and if JR isn't getting bang for his buck, someone has to be responsible for the players' who arenot performing being there. It absolutely was KW's fault he blew $4 million on Manny Ramirez in 2010.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

To clear things up a little bit, Putz signed for 2Y/$11.5MM. The first two years are worth $10MM, and he has a $1.5MM buyout for the 3rd year option. So he's guaranteed $11.5MM.

This is what I got:

 

Per Ken Rosenthal, it's $4 million in 2011 and $4.5M in 12, with a $6.5 million club option for 2013, or a $1.5 million buyout. So, either $10 million for two years or $15 million for three.

 

Apparently Putz lives either in Phoenix or close. That's probably the reason he's there right now.

 

[Leonard Washington]

This is what I got:

 

Per Ken Rosenthal, it's $4 million in 2011 and $4.5M in 12, with a $6.5 million club option for 2013, or a $1.5 million buyout. So, either $10 million for two years or $15 million for three.

 

Apparently Putz lives either in Phoenix or close. That's probably the reason he's there right now.

Yup, you're bang on. Misread the numbers. My bad.

 

So much for clearing things up..

[chw42]

Wow, did we have to give him three years? Jeez.

 

I think he's a decent pitcher and all, but I'm not liking the length of the contract. It's true that he should stay relatively healthy and all, but they might as well have gotten Scott Downs.

[Ranger]

I couldn't disagree more. Someone like Peavy had huge question marks coming over to the AL and leaving the pitcher's haven that is PetCo. There were also a lot of red flags that existed with Peavy that people in the baseball industry had over his long term productivity. KW took a huge risk by taking on that contract, and if he could get out of that deal, it seems likely he would right now.

 

Sure Peavy was a risk because of the salary, but would you prefer he never takes risks on the big names? I recall very few people upset about that deal at the time. Peavy is a top of the line pitcher, and when he's healthy, he makes them better than Clayton Richard would have. Peavy usually makes 30+ starts a season. I'll take that if he continues to do that over the course of the contract.

 

Three is risk in signing/trading for any large contract player, but that doesn't mean a GM should never do it ever. In fact, most people would complain if he didn't ever do it. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

 

If his choices are Player A or Player B or Player C vs. Player D, if he picks A and C and B and D outperform them, he didn't do his job. His job isn't just to pick the players with the best track records. His job is also to project. How does any GM lose their job? Their success is all contigent on players' performances they have no control over, but they do have control over the roster, and if JR isn't getting bang for his buck, someone has to be responsible for the players' who arenot performing being there. It absolutely was KW's fault he blew $4 million on Manny Ramirez in 2010.

 

It's pointless to talk about Manny because, again, nobody complained about it at the time. They gave up no players to get him and they were trying the best they could to add anything to make the final push a little easier. So, it didn't work, but no harm done. They aren't on the hook for him, and you can't blame a guy for trying strengthen the offense for a month. They lost nothing by adding him and they didn't miss the playoffs because he was here.

 

And it's not as simple as just "picking" A, B, C, or D. For one, they often times also have to pick you. Second, you always have to have the resources to acquire them. Your original point is that being a GM is like being a salesman responsible for his sales. The truth is, the two jobs are nothing alike. At all.

 

Sure, some GMs are more prone to make poor decisions than others are, but Kenny isn't one of them. You can't blame him for doing the best with what he had to work with this offseason. He's actually done vrey well. And really, it comes down to how much ownership has committed...and they've committed quite a bit and have made the best effort possible for them.

 

 

 

[Ranger]

Wow, did we have to give him three years? Jeez.

 

I think he's a decent pitcher and all, but I'm not liking the length of the contract. It's true that he should stay relatively healthy and all, but they might as well have gotten Scott Downs.

 

Again, when you need something, you're probably going to have to overpay for it. Same thing with Linebrink. Sox desperatley needed bullpen help, Sox were gonna have to overpay. It's how the market works.

[chw42]

Again, when you need something, you're probably going to have to overpay for it. Same thing with Linebrink. Sox desperatley needed bullpen help, Sox were gonna have to overpay. It's how the market works.

 

There were better options out there who are going for around the same rate.

 

Downs is a better reliever than Crain, yet he only got two million more. The reason I wanted the Sox to sign Crain was because I thought he was going to come cheaper, something around 2 for $7 million or 3 for $10 million. The contract pays Crain to be at least a 1 WAR reliever, he hasn't done that yet in his career. Although if he pitches like he did last year, he should be just fine.

 

Either the payroll is going to $125 million or there's a lot of trades coming our way.

 

Edited December 16, 2010 by chw42

[Dick Allen]

Sure Peavy was a risk because of the salary, but would you prefer he never takes risks on the big names? I recall very few people upset about that deal at the time. Peavy is a top of the line pitcher, and when he's healthy, he makes them better than Clayton Richard would have. Peavy usually makes 30+ starts a season. I'll take that if he continues to do that over the course of the contract.

 

Three is risk in signing/trading for any large contract player, but that doesn't mean a GM should never do it ever. In fact, most people would complain if he didn't ever do it. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

 

 

 

It's pointless to talk about Manny because, again, nobody complained about it at the time. They gave up no players to get him and they were trying the best they could to add anything to make the final push a little easier. So, it didn't work, but no harm done. They aren't on the hook for him, and you can't blame a guy for trying strengthen the offense for a month. They lost nothing by adding him and they didn't miss the playoffs because he was here.

 

And it's not as simple as just "picking" A, B, C, or D. For one, they often times also have to pick you. Second, you always have to have the resources to acquire them. Your original point is that being a GM is like being a salesman responsible for his sales. The truth is, the two jobs are nothing alike. At all.

 

Sure, some GMs are more prone to make poor decisions than others are, but Kenny isn't one of them. You can't blame him for doing the best with what he had to work with this offseason. He's actually done vrey well. And really, it comes down to how much ownership has committed...and they've committed quite a bit and have made the best effort possible for them.

My original point was not that a GM was like a salesman, but that this isn't Little League, effort doesn't really matter. Results do. People put up with Manny jaking it when he was MVP calibur. They don't know. Its reasonable to think the harder someone works the better their performance, but that's not necessarily true. I'm sure you know a least a couple people in your profession that mail it in and seem to get higher ratings and praise than others who work their butts off.

 

As a lifelong White Sox fan and a guy who is sick of hearing about budget problems, I and several others pointed out what a waste of money bringing in Manny was. He had been hurt, hadn't played much, and it was pretty obvious what was going to happen.That was $4 million they could have spent on 2011. Its not a no harm no foul transaction. And you can give him an A for his offseason, but the games are played on the field. Teachers don't give grades before the students take their tests.

 

[chw42]

LR Minor Leaguer

MR Pena

MR Santos

SU Sale

SU Crain

CL Thornton

 

We're getting warmer...

[macsandz]

Wow, did we have to give him three years? Jeez.

 

I think he's a decent pitcher and all, but I'm not liking the length of the contract. It's true that he should stay relatively healthy and all, but they might as well have gotten Scott Downs.

 

Club option for the 3rd year. I like it.

[macsandz]

There were better options out there who are going for around the same rate.

 

Downs is a better reliever than Crain, yet he only got two million more. The reason I wanted the Sox to sign Crain was because I thought he was going to come cheaper, something around 2 for $7 million or 3 for $10 million. The contract pays Crain to be at least a 1 WAR reliever, he hasn't done that yet in his career. Although if he pitches like he did last year, he should be just fine.

 

Either the payroll is going to $125 million or there's a lot of trades coming our way.

 

Let Jerry worry about the payroll....

[beautox]

LR Minor Leaguer

MR Pena

MR Santos

SU Sale

SU Crain

CL Thornton

 

We're getting warmer...

 

Now burn down the farm for soria and sign andrew miller and close the door on our pen.

 

LR Pena

LO Miller

MR Santos

MR Crain

SU Sale

SU Thornton

CL Soria

[jphat007]

Club option for the 3rd year. I like it.

 

Where'd you see that?

[Ranger]

There were better options out there who are going for around the same rate.

 

Downs is a better reliever than Crain, yet he only got two million more. The reason I wanted the Sox to sign Crain was because I thought he was going to come cheaper, something around 2 for $7 million or 3 for $10 million. The contract pays Crain to be at least a 1 WAR reliever, he hasn't done that yet in his career. Although if he pitches like he did last year, he should be just fine.

 

Either the payroll is going to $125 million or there's a lot of trades coming our way.

 

Who says Downs was intersted in coming here? This is fantasy baseball. There are a lot of variables to signing players you want to sign and the market can change over the course of several days.

 

My original point was not that a GM was like a salesman, but that this isn't Little League, effort doesn't really matter. Results do. People put up with Manny jaking it when he was MVP calibur. They don't know. Its reasonable to think the harder someone works the better their performance, but that's not necessarily true. I'm sure you know a least a couple people in your profession that mail it in and seem to get higher ratings and praise than others who work their butts off.

 

As a lifelong White Sox fan and a guy who is sick of hearing about budget problems, I and several others pointed out what a waste of money bringing in Manny was. He had been hurt, hadn't played much, and it was pretty obvious what was going to happen.That was $4 million they could have spent on 2011. Its not a no harm no foul transaction. And you can give him an A for his offseason, but the games are played on the field. Teachers don't give grades before the students take their tests.

 

For a GM, I think you have to give the benefit of the doubt if he's put together a good team on paper for the simple fact that too many unexpected and unpredictable things that can happen during the season that affect the outcome of the year.

 

I don't think the Manny thing was "obvious" as he had the NL's 4th best OPS prior to injury before coming here. And it doesn't matter anyway because the payroll doesn't work like that. His acquisition last year doesn't take away $4 million from teh pot this season. New year, new payroll.

[fathom]

For a GM, I think you have to give the benefit of the doubt if he's put together a good team on paper for the simple fact that too many unexpected and unpredictable things that can happen during the season that affect the outcome of the year.

 

This is so wrong, in my opinion. If that was the case, then the big market teams would never fire their GMs. Guys like Omar Minaya put together good teams on paper, but there were obvious chemistry flaws or teams loaded with injury-prone players.

[Real]

I think Santos is going to have a disappointing year, his 2nd half last year was really bad and he made a lot of questionable pitches (remember the Royals game?)

[Ranger]

This is so wrong, in my opinion. If that was the case, then the big market teams would never fire their GMs. Guys like Omar Minaya put together good teams on paper, but there were obvious chemistry flaws or teams loaded with injury-prone players.

 

 

There was more to Minaya being gone than just the results. A lot going on behind the scenes there in terms of his "behavior", shall we say. It is also nearly impossible to create chemistry in a clubhouse. Unless you're just constantly bringing in terrible people to play for you. Besides, a team full of constantly-injured players would make a team not good on paper.

 

I also think that in many cases, GMs shouldn't be as readily fired as they are. Sometimes it's deserved, but for the most part, if they put the best team they can within their means, there isn't eally much more than can be reasonably asked. There just isn't.

 

[chw42]

Who says Downs was intersted in coming here? This is fantasy baseball. There are a lot of variables to signing players you want to sign and the market can change over the course of several days.

 

Oh, then I'd like to trade for Joakim Soria.

 

What if Kenny didn't like Downs for some reason? What if Kenny preferred a right handed pitcher instead of a left hander? Could all be possible, but there's no question Downs is the better pitcher and would give you a better return.

Edited December 16, 2010 by chw42

[fathom]

Oh, then I'd like to trade for Joakim Soria then.

 

What if Kenny didn't like Downs for some reason? What if Kenny preferred a right handed pitcher instead of a left hander? Could all be possible, but there's no question Downs is the better pitcher and would give you a better return.

 

KW loves Downs, as he tried to acquire him last season.

[Frank_Thomas]

Not sure if this was posted yet, if so my apologies.

 

ChuckGarfien Crain vs. Konerko .111 with 10K's in 18 at-bats, vs. AJ .154, vs. Alexei .125, vs. Teahen .000 with 5 K's....

about 2 hours ago

 

ChuckGarfien Jesse Crain's career against the White Sox: 5-2. 1.45 ERA in 49.2 innings.

Don't have to deal with that anymore.

about 2 hours ago

[Wanne]

Not sure if this was posted yet, if so my apologies.

 

ChuckGarfien Crain vs. Konerko .111 with 10K's in 18 at-bats, vs. AJ .154, vs. Alexei .125, vs. Teahen .000 with 5 K's....

about 2 hours ago

 

ChuckGarfien Jesse Crain's career against the White Sox: 5-2. 1.45 ERA in 49.2 innings.

Don't have to deal with that anymore.

about 2 hours ago

 

Best part of the whole deal IMO. Kenny scored here I think...

[dpd9189]

Best part of the whole deal IMO. Kenny scored here I think...

 

He better produce for that term and those numbers. I don't want Linebrink part 2.