White Sox sign Jesse Crain

[Lillian]

Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking.

 

I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking.

 

I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it?

 

Split-finger is the pitch that I saw him looking to acquire, yes. I have no idea how it effects the arm injury wise. I would assume not much since it's a pretty much downward, normal type of wrist movement, maybe?

[witesoxfan]

Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking.

 

I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it?

 

It can be effective, but like anything, it depends on how good it is. If it looks like a fastball until it gets to the plate, and then the bottom falls out, it will be effective. If it flattens out and only drops a little, it's basically a hanging fastball and it'll get knocked around. I would say that it's something he can try, but if it doesn't work, he should probably vacate the idea of throwing it. It also will be less stressful on the elbow, as you have the normal snapping of the elbow like you would the fastball. However, I have to imagine that it is a bit more stressful on the hand and forearm too.

 

I also need to clarify that I know virtually nothing of pitching itself and only make inferences based on the data I have.

 

Anyways, hopefully he can make it work, because that would certainly increase the likelihood that he will be effective over his 3 years here.

[Springfield Soxfan]

Is Crain the closer and not Thornton going into 2011?

[Balta1701]

Is Crain the closer and not Thornton going into 2011?

Until we sign another lefty, that's a possible but unlikely scenario.

[SoxFan562004]

I find it amazing that Soriano is still owed over like $70 million.

Yup, he and Dunn have 4 years on their deal with each team, Dunn will get about 14m less over the next for years... really one of if not the worst position player contract ever handed out, and if you believe reports, Cubs really bid against themselves, no other team was showing a ton of interest at that point, I believe the Phils had kicked the tires but that was about it at that point.

[dpd9189]

Yup, he and Dunn have 4 years on their deal with each team, Dunn will get about 14m less over the next for years... really one of if not the worst position player contract ever handed out, and if you believe reports, Cubs really bid against themselves, no other team was showing a ton of interest at that point, I believe the Phils had kicked the tires but that was about it at that point.

 

The Jayson Werth deal might be the new worst and I actually really like Jayson Werth.

[southsider2k5]

The Jayson Werth deal might be the new worst and I actually really like Jayson Werth.

 

I think the Crawford deal is worse than the Werth deal by a long shot.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I think the Crawford deal is worse than the Werth deal by a long shot.

 

Agreed. Crawford for the next 2-4 years might be worth close to his annual salary, still overpaid in my mind but not ridiculous, but the last few years of that contract they are gonna regret. Werth won't lose near as much of his game as Crawford will throughout the length of their contracts. Most guys, maybe Crawford's an exception, stop stealing bases in their early to mid thirties. I see him dropping to 20-25 bags tops in 4 or 5 years.

[iamshack]

Agreed. Crawford for the next 2-4 years might be worth close to his annual salary, still overpaid in my mind but not ridiculous, but the last few years of that contract they are gonna regret. Werth won't lose near as much of his game as Crawford will throughout the length of their contracts. Most guys, maybe Crawford's an exception, stop stealing bases in their early to mid thirties. I see him dropping to 20-25 bags tops in 4 or 5 years.

I think you're probably right in that regard, but I think it's hard to say for sure. I've been expecting Ichiro to slow down for the last 3-4 years, and it really hasn't happened. Now he's also a legendary worker, so he may be an extremely unique case. But it points out that just because it would seem that Crawford will slow down is not necessarily proof that he will.

[ptatc]

Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking.

 

I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it?

 

the split finger is actually more stressful on the arm in general if both pitches are thrown properly. To throw the split you need to have more wrist action than a normal pitch. you need to flex the wrist quickly to get the extra spin which causes it to drop.

All other pitches should be thrown with a stiff wrist (in different positions for different pitches) and use more finger action. The slider becomes more stressful when the pitcher drops down or straighten the elbow to get more "slide" across the plate instead of downward motion.

 

[flavum]

So when's the physical so they can actually make this official?

[Balta1701]

So when's the physical so they can actually make this official?

Sounds like next week.

[BigSqwert]

[macsandz]

. The slider becomes more stressful when the pitcher drops down or straighten the elbow to get more "slide" across the plate instead of downward motion.

 

...see Jake Peavy or Chris Sale...yikes.

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

...see Jake Peavy or Chris Sale...yikes.

 

Yeah I certainly hope it isn't the case, but I could definately see that motion of Sale's giving him some trouble at some point in his career.

[ptatc]

...see Jake Peavy or Chris Sale...yikes.

 

Sale doesn't actually drop down very far. He has a shortened wind up due to the angle he holds his elbow during the early wind up. Because of this he can't get his hand up over his head in time so he throws from a lower arm slot. however he compensates some by leaning to the side with his back so his actual arm angle isn't as bad as you think. It's an odd motion but not as bad as some are making it out to be.

 

Peavy on the other hand needs to stay with his normal motion and not drop down so far when he tries to trick hitters.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Jeff Passan with another excellent piece on the mental retardation that is giving relievers not named Mariano Rivera multi-year deals. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Akql...erscolumn121710

 

I really wish we didn't have to go three years with Crain.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Jordan4life

[iamshack]

Jeff Passan with another excellent piece on the mental retardation that is giving relievers not named Mariano Rivera multi-year deals. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Akql...erscolumn121710

 

I really wish we didn't have to go three years with Crain.

What these GMs are faced with, however, is losing because of no relief corps, or overpaying for it. Is it acceptable to have a championship caliber team in place, other than an effective bullpen, and to not pay for it because it would be overpaying? Perhaps in a perfect world every team could develop their pen from within, but absent that, should a GM refuse to pay up?

 

Wouldn't it be a waste of the other $100 million committed already to go into a season with an ineffective bullpen?

 

It seems to me that this is a result of a need for some kind of certainty, even if it is based on hope or recent history, to have one's bases covered, rather than to go into the season with the prayer that the pen will take care of itself through a more efficient process.

[Balta1701]

What these GMs are faced with, however, is losing because of no relief corps, or overpaying for it. Is it acceptable to have a championship caliber team in place, other than an effective bullpen, and to not pay for it because it would be overpaying? Perhaps in a perfect world every team could develop their pen from within, but absent that, should a GM refuse to pay up?

 

Wouldn't it be a waste of the other $100 million committed already to go into a season with an ineffective bullpen?

 

It seems to me that this is a result of a need for some kind of certainty, even if it is based on hope or recent history, to have one's bases covered, rather than to go into the season with the prayer that the pen will take care of itself through a more efficient process.

Furthermore, what's worse...going to 3 years with Jesse Crain, 4 years with Scott Linebrink, or 7 years with Carl Crawford/Jayson Werth?

[Harry Chappas]

The Vikings PBP guy and morning guy on KFAN in Minny loved the moved for the Sox and thinks Crain will be the closer.

[scenario]

Jeff Passan with another excellent piece on the mental retardation that is giving relievers not named Mariano Rivera multi-year deals. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Akql...erscolumn121710

 

I really wish we didn't have to go three years with Crain.

 

The hard part about multi-year deals with relievers is that amount of time they pitch in a season results in year-to-year small samples. They don't pitch enough over the course of a season to overcome a bad stretch... which practically guarantees at least one crap year in a 3-year deal.

 

And since the crap year is all that fans remember, practically every one of these deals look bad.

 

But to get talented free agent relievers to sign on, the 3rd year is often a clincher. Fail to offer it and risk losing out. The only way to get above average talent for fewer years is if they are coming off a bad year or an injury.

 

So, pick your poison.

 

 

[Lillian]

The Vikings PBP guy and morning guy on KFAN in Minny loved the moved for the Sox and thinks Crain will be the closer.

 

I doubt that he will close, except in situations where the hitters due up in the 9th are all right handed.

It would be nice if he could be an effective closer though, as then Sale could be in the rotation. It wouldn't make any sense to make Sale the second best southpaw out of the pen, behind Thornton.

[SkokieSox]

The hard part about multi-year deals with relievers is that amount of time they pitch in a season results in year-to-year small samples. They don't pitch enough over the course of a season to overcome a bad stretch... which practically guarantees at least one crap year in a 3-year deal.

 

And since the crap year is all that fans remember, practically every one of these deals look bad.

 

But to get talented free agent relievers to sign on, the 3rd year is often a clincher. Fail to offer it and risk losing out. The only way to get above average talent for fewer years is if they are coming off a bad year or an injury.

 

So, pick your poison.

 

Which is a great point, as relief pitchers sometimes offer every other year good production. If it works out like that, you'd almost rather have a guy like Crain for 3 years versus 2.

[Dick Allen]

Which is a great point, as relief pitchers sometimes offer every other year good production. If it works out like that, you'd almost rather have a guy like Crain for 3 years versus 2.

Not really. He's due to be bad in year 1, which if he did the alternating good and bad, make him worth his paycheck 1 out of 3 seasons. Maybe the guy has figured something out. I sure hope so. This was the one guy I personally would have stayed away from this offseason. You pay him for 2010 which he was lights out for June, July and August. Just about unhittable. He wasn't very good the rest of the year, had shoulder surgery in 2007 and shoulder issues in 2009. At least its not an obnoxious number they are paying him.