Bobby Jenks to the Red Sox

[BigSqwert]

Somebody better get through to Oney and let him know that if he really wants to protect his dad he should STFU already.

Somebody? Isn't that his parents job?

[hi8is]

My only contribution to this thread is as such...

 

This is not worth talking about - this is not worth thinking about - this is not worth reading about. Time is a-wasting, start living... NOW.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Somebody? Isn't that his parents job?

One would think. But who knows, maybe Ozzie encourages that kind of flippant behavior. Maybe that's like verbal grinderism or something, like whenever Oney opens his mouth Ozzie just hears the sound of Darin Erstad trying to beat out a chopper, so he pats the kid on the back and says "go get 'em."

[BigSqwert]

One would think. But who knows, maybe Ozzie encourages that kind of flippant behavior. Maybe that's like verbal grinderism or something, like whenever Oney opens his mouth Ozzie just hears the sound of Darin Erstad trying to beat out a chopper, so he pats the kid on the back and says "go get 'em."

[Balta1701]

In case you haven't checked, this has now hit the front page list on ESPN.com.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I can't believe anyone would think what Oney did was good for the Sox in any way. Nor can I believe that any mature person would feel that Oney was justified for his tweets about Jenks.

 

Jenks, rightly or wrongly, criticizes the way Ozzie manages his bullpen. Oney responds by making personal information about marital problems, drinking problems, and other embarassing situations public. In the "real world" people are sued and peop[le lose their jobs over things like this. The Guillen family has no class and reflects poorly on the White Sox organization. JR's misplaced loyalty to Guillen isn't doing him any good either.

[Saufley]

Ozzie really loves the organization and, even if he makes decisions we all disagree with sometimes, at least it means something to him to wear the black and white. Maybe it sounds dumb, but that means a lot to me. There are too many managers out there who just don't seem to care. Very few of them speak their mind, and that bothers me as well. The personality and Sox connection I love, the bullpen management I like, the starting staff management I absolutely love, and the rest of the stuff IMO isn't going to matter really if a good enough team is on the field - like, his deficiencies probably aren't going to cost us a division in a long run. Either we're good enough or we aren't.

 

If we had to replace Ozzie I wouldn't like it, but it could work. Maybe we could find the right guy. But if we did replace Ozzie I damn sure wouldn't want to see Ozzie go out because of some stupid s*** his son did. That's just wrong on so many levels. Somebody better get through to Oney and let him know that if he really wants to protect his dad he should STFU already.

 

[WCSox]

Ultimately, this s*** has to stop. This annoys me more than makes me angry. What other managers' son has ever caused as much friction as Oney has the last couple years? Lame. I wouldn't mind another manager in place of Ozzie. But not because his son is retarded.

 

If Ozzie's son is going to leak the organization's behind-the-doors business via Twitter and Ozzie does nothing to stop it, I'd say that's grounds to fire Ozzie. Aside from the gross lack of class on Oney's part, it makes the organization look unprofessional/out-of-control, and could negatively impact their ability to sign free agents down the road.

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

In case you haven't checked, this has now hit the front page list on ESPN.com.

I notice they didn't go into the remarks about Jenk's personal problems that Oney tweeted. Although they did mention the tweet about Jenk's crying in the manager's office because he had "problems".

 

Edited December 29, 2010 by South Side Fireworks Man

[Balta1701]

could negatively impact their ability to sign free agents down the road.

Really folks, let's be honest...when do we ever actually expect this to happen? This season we've already won a couple of FA bidding wars and in the past we've had our GM's and managers ripping departing players repeatedly.

[Saufley]

So who becomes the new manager, of the Sox, when Ozzie is asked to leave? Joey Cora?

[WCSox]

Really folks, let's be honest...when do we ever actually expect this to happen? This season we've already won a couple of FA bidding wars and in the past we've had our GM's and managers ripping departing players repeatedly.

 

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't find a completely dysfunctional GM/Manager relationship and a punk kid Tweeting dirty laundry to get back at players who dare to disrespect daddy to be selling points for committing to an organization.

 

I'm not saying that this will make or break a FA's decision, but you're kidding yourself if you think that it's a complete non-factor. Big-name players have avoided the Yankees in the past because of Steinbrenner and the NY media circus. This isn't that much different.

 

[caulfield12]

I wonder if any legal ramifications could possibly come out of the assault allegations in Arizona? Probably past the statute of limitations?

 

It's really interesting to many because of the confluence of all these new "social networking/high tech" factors, it becomes even bigger than just a sports story.

 

Can Jenks sue Oney for libel/slander and win? Even if everything Oney said is true...and Jenks is definitely a public persona, so the standard is different according to the Supreme Court.

 

As a White Sox fan, I'm not as disappointed with Ozzie here as most. If anything, he bent over backwards to keep supporting Jenks when all signs pointed the other direction. How many times did he remove him from the closer's role only to put him back out there again....2 or 3 times last season. It was almost a joke because you never really believed Ozzie was capable of pulling the plug with Bobby.

 

So I understand Oney being upset about the criticism about not being able to handle a bullpen...there's a huge body of evidence that Ozzie's pretty damned good at that aspect of baseball, maybe one of his greatest strengths.

 

For one, I don't think the White Sox lost the ALCD because of Jenks...but it will the convenient story line now "well, if only Bobby's personal life hadn't spun out of control, we would have won the division in 2010, etc." We just weren't quite good enough, all the way down to the Manny Ramirez acquisition.

 

I'll echo what others have said here. Ozzie and his son bleed black and silver. The idea of someone like Buddy Bell or Cito Gaston defending the organization in a similar situation is laughable. Yes, the "company response" line would have been more appropriate, put out by you typical PR team. Still, it's refreshing that Ozzie ISN'T Bill Belichick. He has his own unique personality, but, in the end, he wants to win just as much as anyone and probably even more because of his connection to the owner, team and fans.

 

In my opinion, all of this stuff was pretty common knowledge around the team. There aren't very many secrets. When I was working for the Pirates, before we even saw Jose Guillen at the A ball (Augusta level), I'd heard a few stories about Jose Guillen that would make the clubby allegation seem like shoplifting. Everyone in the Pirates' organization covered up for him because they knew his talent and potential even then...it's just that 09 and 10, the days of defending and supporting Bobby weren't vindicated by a high enough level of success on the field, where he no longer was worth protecting and coddling to the detriment of the team. I'm sure most of the players in that clubhouse are glad he's gone and perhaps a little light on the dark situation provides insight into the dysfunction of the clubhouse/chemisty over the last couple of seasons.

[iamshack]

Really folks, let's be honest...when do we ever actually expect this to happen? This season we've already won a couple of FA bidding wars and in the past we've had our GM's and managers ripping departing players repeatedly.

When we try to acquire a guy who has an NTC clause at the deadline. When that player has a choice of what contender he wants to go to, and he says "I'm not playing for the White Sox and Ozzie Guillen. That guy runs a freaking soap opera over there."

 

It'll happen, and it may not be something that is recognizable at the time, but it will happen. Players pay attention to stuff like this, and it gets talked about.

[fathom]

When we try to acquire a guy who has an NTC clause at the deadline. When that player has a choice of what contender he wants to go to, and he says "I'm not playing for the White Sox and Ozzie Guillen. That guy runs a freaking soap opera over there."

 

It'll happen, and it may not be something that is recognizable at the time, but it will happen. Players pay attention to stuff like this, and it gets talked about.

 

Our own captain talked after he re-signed about how it was a distraction last year.

[Steve9347]

Ultimately, this s*** has to stop. This annoys me more than makes me angry. What other managers' son has ever caused as much friction as Oney has the last couple years? Lame. I wouldn't mind another manager in place of Ozzie. But not because his son is retarded.

That Darren Baker screwed all bat boys over forever.

[Balta1701]

Our own captain talked after he re-signed about how it was a distraction last year.

Do you think that having a closer blowing games because of personal issues is a distraction as well? And maybe is the sort that angers potential FA's and trade options?

[caulfield12]

But can't you also make the argument that the Swisher/Mariotti/blow-up doll/Cabrera stories in 2008 took focus away from the players and placed it squaely on Ozzie...? That a team that really had no business making the playoffs was possibly helped as much as 2010's team was distracted?

 

In the end, was that distraction enough to keep us from beating Minnesota? What if Jenks never even pitched for the 2010 White Sox and we spent his $7.5 million on a DH and/or a couple of relievers in the Crain/Guerrier/Rauch mold?

 

If we would have had Thome (and Minnesota NOT had him when Morneau went down) and then fill-in-the-blank reliever/s, it's easy to say in hindsight we would have been better off cutting the cord one year earlier before this all played out the way it did.

 

 

[iamshack]

Do you think that having a closer blowing games because of personal issues is a distraction as well? And maybe is the sort that angers potential FA's and trade options?

You are so much better than this, Balta.

 

You have no idea if these personal issues led to him blowing games.

 

And these guys are human beings...they all have real lives that affect their ability to do their jobs, just like you and I.

 

That doesn't give anyone the right to air them out over f***ing Twitter.

[ptatc]

Do you think that having a closer blowing games because of personal issues is a distraction as well? And maybe is the sort that angers potential FA's and trade options?

 

Players understand the problems of distractions. They wouldn't hold it against a team. Even if they did Jenks had 3 loses last year. An FA who looked it up, not that any of them care about individual player stats they usually want to know how good the team is, they would see he lost 3 games. that's better than many other closers in the game.

 

[Balta1701]

Players understand the problems of distractions. They wouldn't hold it against a team. Even if they did Jenks had 3 loses last year. An FA who looked it up, not that any of them care about individual player stats they usually want to know how good the team is, they would see he lost 3 games. that's better than many other closers in the game.

And those players are going to say the exact same thing about the Oney guillen distraction.

[Harry Chappas]

Have the White Sox lost out on a player they wanted to retain via free agency? Too me this is another in the line of Thomas, Swisher, Cabrerra, and Ordonez who were "allowed" to leave and then b****ed an moaned.

 

After all of the soap operas in the Guillen tenure, they retain the free agents and get the players they want.

 

It has scared off certain players but I think they are going with the media POV.

 

If players that the Sox wanted back did not come back, then I think this would have been an issue.

 

Konerko has been here plenty long, maybe a condition of his was that Jenks not come back....

[Dick Allen]

That's not the message this sends. The message this sends is that if you don't want your dirty laundry aired...then keep your own mouth shut. Ripping the team that knows all your dirty laundry? That's moronic.

 

Every one in that locker room suffered last year because of Bobby's problems, and every one of them kept their mouths shut. Bobby Jenks left, and immediately decided that he couldn't keep his mouth shut, and blamed the people who were covering for him.

What is shows is if you go to Ozzie with a personal situation he likes to discuss it over dinner with the rest of his family. If, for some reason, you want to jab Ozzie in the future, and by no means do I think what Jenks did was right, then you will be subject to Oney airing out all of your personal laundry. It really isn't good.

[Dick Allen]

So who becomes the new manager, of the Sox, when Ozzie is asked to leave? Joey Cora?

According to Oney, Joey would never dis Ozzie like that.

[Balta1701]

What is shows is if you go to Ozzie with a personal situation he likes to discuss it over dinner with the rest of his family. If, for some reason, you want to jab Ozzie in the future, and by no means do I think what Jenks did was right, then you will be subject to Oney airing out all of your personal laundry. It really isn't good.

I still think, if I were in that locker room, I'd be much more angry about Jenks opening his mouth than about the fire-back.