Bobby Jenks to the Red Sox

[Kyyle23]

That they hung out quite a bit, yes 100% I know it to be true. Witnessed it first hand.

 

This is where these arguments devolve.

 

 

Im done, Ozzie isnt responsible for what Oney said, but he is responsible for his team. Private info was released, how it was acquired is irrelevant. Oney was a moron for turning it personal instead of keeping it on the professional level

[RockRaines]

Where are you getting the beating and killing from? Jesus, no one ever even hinted at that.

 

Secondly, if you think Ozzie has nothing to do with this, and this is outside his scope, you're absolutely kidding yourself. Ozzie brings his kids into the fray, which is fine by me, lots of managers do it. But if his kids are not mature enough to understand what needs to stay behind closed doors and what is ok to talk about, then yes, that reflects poorly on Ozzie and ultimately he is responsible for it.

 

No one has the right to force Ozzie to do anything in relation to how he handles his family. But if his family continues to make the Organization look poorly because of the privileges extended to Ozzie's family due to his position as manager, whether in the past or present, then Ozzie will be fired. This is the real world and this crap is not tolerated.

 

To say it's outside of his scope or not his responsibility or that he had nothing to do with it is just not true.

At what age do you no longer have responsibility for your children's actions?

[iamshack]

Thats not what happened. Oney knows this stuff first hand, he's been close to Bobby for years.

And why have Bobby and Oney been close? Because they met in Spirit Lake, Idaho? Did they play American Legion ball together?

[Kyyle23]

I know they've hung out quite a bit first hand. Thats what I am referring to. If I didnt ditch an old cell phone I could show you a picture of a few members of the pen with Oney and Oz Jr.

 

Rock, what does this have to do with anything? You rub elbows with them so Im to believe you when you tell me that Bobby told Oney all of his personal business? Come on.

 

regardless of how he got his info, he shouldnt of said it. The end

[RockRaines]

This is where these arguments devolve.

 

 

Im done, Ozzie isnt responsible for what Oney said, but he is responsible for his team. Private info was released, how it was acquired is irrelevant. Oney was a moron for turning it personal instead of keeping it on the professional level

I think everyone is in agreement that Oney is a moron. Quite simply, I think his actions were that of an idiot that didnt put much thought into his actions. Frankly I think alot of the ways people use social media these days is completely irrational.

 

With that said, I'm not sure that Ozzie should be fire because his grown up offspring posted something on twitter. If you can fire a coach or manager because their family does something embarrassing, I expect Rex Ryan to be canned in the next few weeks.

[Kyyle23]

At what age do you no longer have responsibility for your children's actions?

 

when your childrens actions are a direct result of your job and the people within it, you are responsible for them.

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

Rock, what does this have to do with anything? You rub elbows with them so Im to believe you when you tell me that Bobby told Oney all of his personal business? Come on.

 

regardless of how he got his info, he shouldnt of said it. The end

No, I'm saying its very plausible that he learned this stuff first hand. None of us know anything for sure, but its more realistic that Oney knew of Bobby's drinking because Oney used to go out drinking with Bobby.

[RockRaines]

when your childrens actions are a direct result of your job and the people within it, you are responsible for them.

But they already fired Oney. He's not connected to the White Sox.

[Princess Dye]

I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that my boss would be fired on the spot.

 

Depends what position your boss is in. My boss is the managing partner of a law firm. He would not be fired.

 

Ozzie is the manager of a pro baseball team. Needless to say he's of great value to the organization on a national level.

 

Different bosses face different consequences. In this situation, there are a lot of coaches with difficult personalities leaguewide. If they're successful or valuable they get all kinds of opportunities to keep going.

 

There have been past situations where coaches' kids have had troublesome social networking material up (Tony Dungy's son?). Famous people now have all kinds of glory-seeking family members and friends posting all kinds of things.... so whether right or wrong, it isn't a brand new occurrence. It's the world we're in now.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Princess Dye

[Kyyle23]

I think everyone is in agreement that Oney is a moron. Quite simply, I think his actions were that of an idiot that didnt put much thought into his actions. Frankly I think alot of the ways people use social media these days is completely irrational.

 

With that said, I'm not sure that Ozzie should be fire because his grown up offspring posted something on twitter. If you can fire a coach or manager because their family does something embarrassing, I expect Rex Ryan to be canned in the next few weeks.

 

Rex Ryans foot fetish has nothing to do with the Jets. Twice Oney has taken to twitter and has made embarrassing situations for the White Sox and his father. I dont expect Ozzie to be fired, but at some point you would think that he would go to his son and ask him to stop this nonsense

[iamshack]

At what age do you no longer have responsibility for your children's actions?

It's not an issue of someone wanting to punish Oney for his actions.

 

It's an issue of Oney having access to information based solely on his father's position with the Organization, and then having that information spewed all over Twitter. And in the real world, especially the part of it where huge dollars are at stake, if you can't maintain the integrity of your organization or the potential for its success is jeopardized, whether you are directly responsible or not, you get fired. It gets determined that you can no longer be entrusted to lead. The world is not fair. Game over.

 

Secondly, I've seen you argue that the ruling on Cam Newton is bogus, because now players can just claim they knew nothing and their parents did all the negotiating. Well this is the inverse. Now we'll just have Ozzie's kid do all the talking and he can claim he is not responsible for any of it. Just like Balta claimed early on in this discussion.

 

It's all bs. Ozzie is responsible for that clubhouse. To claim it is not within his scope or that he is not responsible because his child is an adult is oversimplifying the issue drastically and burying your head in the sand because you support Ozzie Guillen.

Edited December 30, 2010 by iamshack

[justBLAZE]

Rex Ryans foot fetish has nothing to do with the Jets. Twice Oney has taken to twitter and has made embarrassing situations for the White Sox and his father. I dont expect Ozzie to be fired, but at some point you would think that he would go to his son and ask him to stop this nonsense

 

And what makes you think that he hasn't?

[iamshack]

But they already fired Oney. He's not connected to the White Sox.

See, now you're pointing out that they actually had to FIRE the manager's son.

 

But you are shocked that anyone would now ask Ozzie to publicly denounce this same son?

 

It's clear the kid is an absolute fool and Ozzie needs to completely separate his relationship with his son from his job with the White Sox.

[ptatc]

When his tweets have the potential to complicate Ozzie's career then no he can't tweet whatever the hell he wants. I've spent some time at my father's workplace over the years and gotten to know his coworkers, if I starting sharing sensitive, personal information about his former coworkers he'd stomp my f***ing ass and I'd say we have a pretty close relationship. Oney's pampered lifestyle is direct result of his father's hard work and ability to hold a job in the game of baseball, why Oney would want to put that at risk is beyond me. I suppose it arises from that family's ridiculous machismo.

 

 

Personally, I'll go with Oney being an idiot who didn't think before he acted.

[ptatc]

And why have Bobby and Oney been close? Because they met in Spirit Lake, Idaho? Did they play American Legion ball together?

 

I met Bob Feller (RIP) in Spirit Lake Iowa but we wern't close.

[Kalapse]

I agree that Oney went over the line, and he should keep his mouth shut!

 

I disagree that Bobby kept it professional. Everyone here wanted Ozzie gone because he kept sending Jenks up there last season remember? Now Bobby tells media Ozzie doesn't know how to run a bullpen! Hypocrite!

Then go after Jenks with that don't air his dirty laundry in public. If Jenks is going to criticize the way Ozzie does his job and Ozzie's dips*** son feels the need to defend his father's honor then turn around and go after Jenks for his on-field performance. There's plenty of ammunition there. If turnabout is fair game then at least keep it fair.

[RockRaines]

It's not an issue of someone wanting to punish Oney for his actions.

 

It's an issue of Oney having access to information based solely on his father's position with the Organization, and then having that information spewed all over Twitter. And in the real world, especially the part of it where huge dollars are at stake, if you can't maintain the integrity of your organization or the potential for its success is jeopardized, whether you are directly responsible or not, you get fired. It gets determined that you can no longer be entrusted to lead. The world is not fair. Game over.

 

Secondly, I've seen you argue that the ruling on Cam Newton is bogus, because now players can just claim they knew nothing and their parents did all the negotiating. Well this is the inverse. Now we'll just have Ozzie's kid do all the talking and he can claim he is not responsible for any of it. Just like Balta claimed early on in this discussion.

 

It's all bs. Ozzie is responsible for that clubhouse. To claim it is not within his scope or that he is not responsible because his child is an adult is oversimplifying the issue drastically and burying your head in the sand because you support Ozzie Guillen.

Come on, Cam Newton? How is an NCAA ruling even close to this? I understand we dont agree on the Ozzie topic, but lets keep the discussion on target instead of my opinions on completely irrelevant topics.

 

And yes Oney is an idiot. I just dont know what a father can do to his grown up son to stop him from doing anything. For all we know Ozzie could have told him to shut the f*** up and he didnt listen.

[WCSox]

It's not an issue of someone wanting to punish Oney for his actions.

 

It's an issue of Oney having access to information based solely on his father's position with the Organization, and then having that information spewed all over Twitter. And in the real world, especially the part of it where huge dollars are at stake, if you can't maintain the integrity of your organization or the potential for its success is jeopardized, whether you are directly responsible or not, you get fired. It gets determined that you can no longer be entrusted to lead. The world is not fair. Game over.

 

Secondly, I've seen you argue that the ruling on Cam Newton is bogus, because now players can just claim they knew nothing and their parents did all the negotiating. Well this is the inverse. Now we'll just have Ozzie's kid do all the talking and he can claim he is not responsible for any of it. Just like Balta claimed early on in this discussion.

 

It's all bs. Ozzie is responsible for that clubhouse. To claim it is not within his scope or that he is not responsible because his child is an adult is oversimplifying the issue drastically and burying your head in the sand because you support Ozzie Guillen.

 

Completely agree.

 

Oney's family relationship to Ozzie isn't the issue. Ozzie giving Oney access to players and the clubhouse is. If Ozzie had hired Oney as a gofer and Oney pulled this crap, Ozzie would still be responsible for it.

 

[ptatc]

See, now you're pointing out that they actually had to FIRE the manager's son.

 

But you are shocked that anyone would now ask Ozzie to publicly denounce this same son?

 

It's clear the kid is an absolute fool and Ozzie needs to completely separate his relationship with his son from his job with the White Sox.

 

This is unreasonable. You do not have control over another person. You can ask them not to talk about things which I'm sure has been done. Since Oney is no longer employed by the Sox all the organization can do is to ask Ozzie not to talk about cetain things with his family. Ozzie may or not have given the info to Oney. If Oney got the info first hand then as his time with the Sox is further removed he will no longer have any info to pass along.

 

Ozzie should state that he does not agree with what his so did but that Oney needs to stand alone because he is an adult (at least chronologically).

[iamshack]

Come on, Cam Newton? How is an NCAA ruling even close to this? I understand we dont agree on the Ozzie topic, but lets keep the discussion on target instead of my opinions on completely irrelevant topics.

 

And yes Oney is an idiot. I just dont know what a father can do to his grown up son to stop him from doing anything. For all we know Ozzie could have told him to shut the f*** up and he didnt listen.

Well, you're the one that started with the football analogies...

 

Well that's just too bad, Rock. If he can't control what his son says, then he should have never trusted him to bring him in the Clubhouse and be around White Sox business. He should be fired. Sorry, but that is how life works.

 

 

[ptatc]

Completely agree.

 

Oney's family relationship to Ozzie isn't the issue. Ozzie giving Oney access to players and the clubhouse is. If Ozzie had hired Oney as a gofer and Oney pulled this crap, Ozzie would still be responsible for it.

 

This is true except if the info came from the time from when he was employed by the sox, then they are still somewhat responsible. This would fall under the "organization does not share the same views as our employees and thus he was dismissed from the organiztion". Which by the way shows alot about what kind of idiot this kids is. The organization is pretty loyal to the employees.

[WCSox]

This is true except if the info came from the time from when he was employed by the sox, then they are still somewhat responsible. This would fall under the "organization does not share the same views as our employees and thus he was dismissed from the organiztion". Which by the way shows alot about what kind of idiot this kids is. The organization is pretty loyal to the employees.

 

Agreed

 

[iamshack]

This is unreasonable. You do not have control over another person. You can ask them not to talk about things which I'm sure has been done. Since Oney is no longer employed by the Sox all the organization can do is to ask Ozzie not to talk about cetain things with his family. Ozzie may or not have given the info to Oney. If Oney got the info first hand then as his time with the Sox is further removed he will no longer have any info to pass along.

 

Ozzie should state that he does not agree with what his so did but that Oney needs to stand alone because he is an adult (at least chronologically).

It's not unreasonable at all.

 

The White Sox didn't hire Oney because he was some genius in the video-editing room or something. They gave him a job as a favor to Ozzie. Every one of the privileges that Oney has been given are a result of the fact that his father is the manager of the Chicago White Sox.

 

If you read back in the thread, I supported Ozzie's natural desire to share parts of his life with his family, and that includes his work experiences. I have no problem with him telling his family about his job. But when you've got a high-profile job, your family has to respect that, and not share that information with the press or really with many people at all. Not only has Oney done that, but he SEEKS out the press to share this information with others. He USES the fact that his father is in a high-profile position for his own gain.

 

Obviously Ozzie can't force Oney to stop doing this, but what the Organization will eventually decide is that if Ozzie cannot stop his family members from sharing sensitive or private White Sox business with the press or with the public via Twitter, then it will sever all ties with the Guillen family. It will remove any chance of the Guillen family having this information from occurring. And it will do that by firing Ozzie Guillen.

[ptatc]

Well, you're the one that started with the football analogies...

 

Well that's just too bad, Rock. If he can't control what his son says, then he should have never trusted him to bring him in the Clubhouse and be around White Sox business. He should be fired. Sorry, but that is how life works.

 

That is not how life works. People don't get fired at work for something their adult children do. We've had employees children hired for summer help, the kids screw up and while they won't hire the employees children again, they don't hire the employee.

 

the last time Oney made an ass of himself the sox fired him. I have not seen major ramifications from that episode.

[RockRaines]

That is not how life works. People don't get fired at work for something their adult children do. We've had employees children hired for summer help, the kids screw up and while they won't hire the employees children again, they don't hire the employee.

 

the last time Oney made an ass of himself the sox fired him. I have not seen major ramifications from that episode.

It would be a giant HR case for someone to be fire based on something another employee did regardless of their relation to said employee.