Bobby Jenks to the Red Sox

[WCSox]

There is no Mariano Rivera. He's a wonder to behold. The greatest relief pitcher to ever live. Can't hold anybody to that standard.

 

He compared favorably for a while...

 

2006: 0.776 WHIP, 517 ERA+

2007: 0.771 WHIP, 257 ERA+

 

[witesoxfan]

So, again, why would Epstein want two years of Jenks as a setup man, rather than three years of Guerrier for the same price? Would YOU take Bobby over Guerrier? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

In the blink of an eye. The Twins have had outstanding infield defense over the past 3-5 years to go along with generally good outfield defense, though this past year was obviously a different story for them. The White Sox have not been nearly as good. Thus, Matt Guerrier's ERA and WHIP will look better compared to Jenks. Jenks still has much better stuff and still has the ability to be a dominant force out of the bullpen. I don't think you ever look at Matt Guerrier and think "dominant."

 

 

 

Perhaps I'm overlooking something obvious, but this doesn't make any sense. Are you suggesting that Linebrink only faced utility players when the score was 20-3 in the 6th inning? Or are you arguing that closers always face the top/middle of the order in the 9th inning?

 

I'm not arguing either of those.

 

Think about it. If it's a low leverage situation - ie, one team is up by 4 or more runs - you are more likely to see substitutes come into the ballgame, the s***ty players who never get to play. Beyond that, players aren't going to care if they get a hit or not - their concentration level will be lower. If it's a high leverage situation, a team is going to put as many of their best hitters up there as they can, and the best players are going to try harder. That means they are going to be pinch hitting for those s***ty substitutes who got the start, and they won't be pulling their best hitters.

 

You using the word "always" is making this out to be a matter of extremes. Linebrink faced some of the best hitters in the league at times, while Jenks faced some of the worst at times, but over the course of the season, a pitcher in high leverage situations is going to face more good hitters than someone who pitches in merely low leverage spots.

 

 

 

Jenks also got hit pretty hard in 2006 and 2009, so this isn't a new phenomenon.

 

Which means he was good in 2005, 2007, and 2008. He's 3/6 in both categories, and last year's peripherals suggest that something might be left. I'm glad it wasn't the Sox who signed him, but he's not finished.

 

 

Yeah, except for all of those fans and sports writers who realize that Crawford and Gonzalez can't pitch... and that pitching separates playoff teams from mediocre teams. You can say a lot about Red Sox fans, but they tend to have a better understanding of their team and the game than others. They're not Cubs fans.

What's the general consensus from a smart group of Red Sox fans?

 

[Springfield Soxfan]

Jenks coming out of the pen with runners on base was never his strength, so I'm not sure how successful he will be for the BoSox.

[WCSox]

In the blink of an eye. The Twins have had outstanding infield defense over the past 3-5 years to go along with generally good outfield defense, though this past year was obviously a different story for them. The White Sox have not been nearly as good. Thus, Matt Guerrier's ERA and WHIP will look better compared to Jenks. Jenks still has much better stuff and still has the ability to be a dominant force out of the bullpen. I don't think you ever look at Matt Guerrier and think "dominant."

 

While I agree that the Twins have usually had better defense than the Sox over the past five years, it's silly to argue that's the reason that Guerrier's numbers are so much better than Bobby's. Guerrier's numbers are better because he's pitched more effectively - plain and simple.

 

Javy Vazquez has better stuff than Mark Buehrle and, well, you know how far that got him. Bobby's superior stuff doesn't mean crap if he can't throw an offspeed pitch for a strike.

 

Think about it. If it's a low leverage situation - ie, one team is up by 4 or more runs - you are more likely to see substitutes come into the ballgame, the s***ty players who never get to play. Beyond that, players aren't going to care if they get a hit or not - their concentration level will be lower. If it's a high leverage situation, a team is going to put as many of their best hitters up there as they can, and the best players are going to try harder. That means they are going to be pinch hitting for those s***ty substitutes who got the start, and they won't be pulling their best hitters.

 

You using the word "always" is making this out to be a matter of extremes. Linebrink faced some of the best hitters in the league at times, while Jenks faced some of the worst at times, but over the course of the season, a pitcher in high leverage situations is going to face more good hitters than someone who pitches in merely low leverage spots.

 

I still think that this is a silly argument, as Linebrink obviously faced his share of quality hitters after losing the setup role. But while we're on the topic of "high leverage" situations, Bobby's done a pretty freaking poor job of keeping hitters off base in them over the past couple of years. And that doesn't bode well for somebody who is expected to hold a lead in a closer or setup role.

 

I agree that Bobby still has the potential to be effective, so it'll be interesting to see how things play out for him. I'm not terribly optimistic, but I hope that he proves me wrong and earns that $12M.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Bobby Jenks the steal of the offseason? So predictable, And apparently Jenks was as good as Rafael Soriano last year. But if he had signed with the Orioles, all you would hear about is weight problems and inflated ERAs.

 

Bobby Jenks is changing the color of his Sox, moving from the Chicago White Sox to the Boston Red Sox. What are the Red Sox getting? If you look beyond his inflated ERA, Jenks was the victim of bad luck in 2010.

 

Jenks was mostly the same pitcher in 2010 that he was from 2007 to 2009, and in some ways, he was better. Jenks generated more swings and misses and struck out a higher percentage of batters than he had in the three seasons prior while allowing fewer base hits.

 

So what was Jenks’ problem? Opposing batters were missing the White Sox gloves.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/i...f-the-offseason

Edited December 18, 2010 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

Bobby Jenks the steal of the offseason? So predictable, And apparently Jenks was as good as Rafael Soriano last year. But if he had signed with the Orioles, all you would hear about is weight problems and inflated ERAs.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/i...f-the-offseason

I guess the back issues, the leg issues the elbow issue isn't an issue for these guys. You used to be able to count on Jenks answering the bell. You can't anymore, or at least haven't been able to as much the past couple of years.

[WCSox]

Jenks was mostly the same pitcher in 2010 that he was from 2007 to 2009, and in some ways, he was better.

 

Good God, these guys are ignorant.

 

[southsider2k5]

He compared favorably for a while...

 

2006: 0.776 WHIP, 517 ERA+

2007: 0.771 WHIP, 257 ERA+

 

Two years, versus what 15 or so for Mo?

[Balta1701]

Good God, these guys are ignorant.

I'm not going to say that yet. The numbers could be lying here but i"m not convinced either way.

 

What is interesting is that the Chisox supposedly had a decent defense last year right?

[WCSox]

Two years, versus what 15 or so for Mo?

 

I'm not equating Papelbon to Rivera. Just saying that Papelbon in his (brief) prime was equally dominant.

 

[WCSox]

I'm not going to say that yet. The numbers could be lying here but i"m not convinced either way.

 

What is interesting is that the Chisox supposedly had a decent defense last year right?

 

I don't think there's any question that Jenks was a MUCH better pitcher in 2007 than he was in 2010 (with weaker defense back then, to boot).

 

[knightni]

What is interesting is that the Chisox supposedly had a decent defense last year right?

I'd say that Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Vizquel/Morel is better defensively than Gonzalez, Pedroia, Scutaro, Youkilis.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd say that Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Vizquel/Morel is better defensively than Gonzalez, Pedroia, Scutaro, Youkilis.

 

And you'd be wrong. Konerko is in no way shape, or form, better defensively than Gonzalez. Beckham is not better than Pedroia. And Morel is all potential at this point. The only edge we have is Ramirez over Scutaro.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Jordan4life

[knightni]

I'll give you AGon>Paulie but the other three are presently better than Boston's.

 

Pedroia may have better defensive % than Beckham, but his range won't be as good after last year's injuries.

 

Besides, Beckham played his first year ever at 2nd last year and only had 6 more errors than Pedroia's healthy years.

 

Ramirez is much better than Scutaro, and the Vizquel/Morel combo is miles ahead of Youkilis at 3rd.

[elrockinMT]

And you'd be wrong. Konerko is in no way shape, or form, better defensively than Gonzalez. Beckham is not better than Pedroia. And Morel is all potential at this point. The only edge we have is Ramirez over Scutaro.

 

It is amazing we can win any games at all

Edited December 18, 2010 by elrockinMT

[Heads22]

With Jenks, it's a hell of a lot more about what we saw out of him than what some of the numbers suggest.

[iamshack]

With Jenks, it's a hell of a lot more about what we saw out of him than what some of the numbers suggest.

To his credit, I do remember a crap load of little shank hits in the infield. Maybe it's because he's so slow off the mound, but I think he is the victim of an inordinate quantity of unlucky squibbers.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Funny thing is I want to wish Bobby well. But not as a Red sock. I respect their organization and how it's run. But their fans makes me so sick.

[lostfan]

lol at Jenks's problem being that opposing batters were missing the White Sox players' gloves. I understand how stats work, but these are things that were happening for an extended period of time. Bobby Jenks had a high WHIP because he was letting guys on base, because he was either missing his spots, because hitters were lighting his s*** up, or both. I guess it's kind of ironic that it was happening to him and not to anybody else - say, Matt Thornton.

Edited December 18, 2010 by lostfan

[Kyyle23]

Im gonna be super pissed if Bobby shows up in shape and motivated.

[Balta1701]

Im gonna be super pissed if Bobby shows up in shape and motivated.

Why would he need to? The Red Sox already committed 2/$12 to him.

[Kyyle23]

Why would he need to? The Red Sox already committed 2/$12 to him.

 

I hope he doesnt so that they get the same Bobby we had, but I will be pissed if all the sudden he decides he wants to prove the White Sox wrong

[Balta1701]

I hope he doesnt so that they get the same Bobby we had, but I will be pissed if all the sudden he decides he wants to prove the White Sox wrong

Proving the white sox wrong by doing what the White Sox kept asking him to do; get in shape.

[lostfan]

Proving the white sox wrong by doing what the White Sox kept asking him to do; get in shape.

And not saying "I am in shape, they're asking something of me that's unrealistic"

[witesoxfan]

I want to clarify my statements a bit.

 

I'm not suggesting that I wanted Jenks back. I was one of the many who wanted him replaced, and I was a witness to the 7/18 catastrophe. From what I saw of Jenks last year, he hung a ton of pitches, didn't have a good fastball, and flat out sucked. Every time he entered the game, you cringed. He was quite simply not a good pitcher, no matter the results of numbers.

 

All I have suggested is that the numbers show that he has something left. I don't think he is suddenly going to fall off the face of the earth because of a rough year. Rather, I am suggesting it is more likely that the numbers he put up last year will revert more towards his career norms, but that he will pitch better and will put up better numbers. I don't think that's an unfathomable concept. Beyond that, it's entirely possible that he could put up those peripherals and pitch well too, which would make his year fantastic, just as it's possible that he could put up worse peripherals and pitch just as poorly, which would accelerate his plane ticket to Japan pretty mfing quickly.

 

I think the Red Sox overpaid for him, but they have the money to afford such an overpay and, if they believe he still has it, doing so can't really hurt them in the end.