Greinke traded to the Brewers

[Balta1701]

Just think, if the Pirates do anything, the Cubs could finish last in that division.

Houston, we have a baseball team too?

[chw42]

Do the Brewers have anyone at the back end of their bullpen?

 

John Axford, LaTroy Hawkins, Todd Coffey, and Carlos Villanueva?

 

Axford was pretty good last year, but the rest I listed were meh at best.

 

The Brewers haven't had a good bullpen for a while.

[Balta1701]

John Axford, LaTroy Hawkins, Todd Coffey, and Carlos Villanueva?

 

Axford was pretty good last year, but the rest I listed were meh at best.

 

The Brewers haven't had a good bullpen for a while.

Exactly, that's been their achilles heel so long, even if they have a great starting rotation, I'm going to put them behind the Reds and Cardinals in my head until I know that they won't blow every other game in the 8th inning.

[3E8]

John Axford, LaTroy Hawkins, Todd Coffey, and Carlos Villanueva?

 

Axford was pretty good last year, but the rest I listed were meh at best.

 

The Brewers haven't had a good bullpen for a while.

Villanueva was traded to the Jays for a PTBNL

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think there are now 3 teams there which could be really, really, really good. The Reds still look like the class of that division to me, and the Cardinals are same as last year.

 

I agree. But it's not like the AL east where it's pretty much a lock that you need 95 wins to get to the playoffs. All I know is the Cubs are toast. That's the most important thing.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jordan4life

[iamshack]

I'm not saying it should frighten you. But are you crazy? Maybe 1 or 2 teams in baseball could've topped that haul. I'd like to know what would impress you? 4 Jason Heywards?

Well, I'm just going off what I know of Escobar, and from what I read from Brewers fans. They didn't seem at all concerned about losing those prospects.

 

Secondly, if I'm trading Greinke, I want at least one absolute stud back. I don't view any of these prospects as that.

[Balta1701]

Well, I'm just going off what I know of Escobar, and from what I read from Brewers fans. They didn't seem at all concerned about losing those prospects.

 

Secondly, if I'm trading Greinke, I want at least one absolute stud back. I don't view any of these prospects as that.

Baseball America had Escobar as their #12 prospect coming into 2010.

[iamshack]

Thing is 3 of the 4 players they got are major league ready. It's not like they have to wait around for 2-3 years for these guys to develop. Not sure how much anybody around here knows about Escobar. But he really is an Elvis Andrus clone. His bat has to improve. But this guy can play a mean ass SS.

I Andrus much more than I do Escobar.

[iamshack]

Baseball America had Escobar as their #12 prospect coming into 2010.

Yippee.

 

He didn't impress me at all last year.

[Balta1701]

I Andrus much more than I do Escobar.

Andrus definitely got upwards in the minors more rapidly, but Escobar probably put together better batting numbers overall. Higher batting average, higher OPS, at higher levels as well, and hitting the bigs at 23 isn't exactly an old guy.

[Balta1701]

Yippee.

 

He didn't impress me at all last year.

Andrus put up a .702 OPS as a rookie and a .643 OPS last year, while Escobar put up a .614 OPS last year.

 

I don't think either of them have numbers that look all that impressive.

[iamshack]

Andrus definitely got upwards in the minors more rapidly, but Escobar probably put together better batting numbers overall. Higher batting average, higher OPS, at higher levels as well, and hitting the bigs at 23 isn't exactly an old guy.

I didn't say he was old; in fact, I pointed out he was young a few posts ago. However, he just posted a line of .235/.288/.326 with 10 stolen bases in over 500 at-bats. He just reminds me too much of Carlos Gomez.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well, I'm just going off what I know of Escobar, and from what I read from Brewers fans. They didn't seem at all concerned about losing those prospects.

 

Secondly, if I'm trading Greinke, I want at least one absolute stud back. I don't view any of these prospects as that.

 

Then I just have to assume you're not in tune to the minor leagues. I'm a BA subscriber and I follow prospect-laden sites like minorleagueball religiously. The guys the Royals got back are consensus top 50-60 prospects. And unless you get to watch these guys (prospects in general), you really have no choice but to go off what you read/hear (experts, scouting reports, ect). But in this case, I've seen 3 of the 4 guys they got back. And all 3 are supremely talented. I have no idea what your definition of a stud is. But as far as I'm concerned, the Brewers got 3 back.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jordan4life

[3E8]

Baseball America had Escobar as their #12 prospect coming into 2010.

A prestigious honor once bestowed upon our own Joseph Borchard.

[iamshack]

Andrus put up a .702 OPS as a rookie and a .643 OPS last year, while Escobar put up a .614 OPS last year.

 

I don't think either of them have numbers that look all that impressive.

Andrus at least shows some ability to hit for average, draw a walk, and steal bases. And he's more than a year younger than Escobar.

 

 

[iamshack]

Then I just have to assume you're not in tune to the minor leagues. I'm a BA subscriber and I follow prospect-laden sites like minorleagueball religiously. The guys the Royals got back are consensus top 50-60 prospects. And unless you get to watch these guys (prospects in general), you really have no choice but to go off what you read/hear (experts, scouting reports, ect). But in this case, I've seen 3 of the 4 guys they got back. And all 3 are supremely talented. I have no idea what your definition of a stud is. But as far as I'm concerned, the Brewers got 3 back.

If I were trading a guy one-year removed from a Cy Young award, I'd want the centerpiece to be something other than a slick-fielding, slap-hitting ss.

 

JMHO.

[Balta1701]

Andrus at least shows some ability to hit for average, draw a walk, and steal bases. And he's more than a year younger than Escobar.

In Andrus's rookie year, he took 40 walks and struck out 77 times.

 

In Escobar's rookie year, he took 36 walks and struck out 70 times.

 

On the stealing bases thing, Andrus last year was 32/47 in stolen bases, for a 68% clip. We'd be furious if a guy kept running at that clip.

 

I can't say that Escobar's a great player, and yeah Andrus is a year younger, but the numbers you're trying to use to defend Andrus really don't say he's a very good player either.

[iamshack]

In Andrus's rookie year, he took 40 walks and struck out 77 times.

 

In Escobar's rookie year, he took 36 walks and struck out 70 times.

 

On the stealing bases thing, Andrus last year was 32/47 in stolen bases, for a 68% clip. We'd be furious if a guy kept running at that clip.

 

I can't say that Escobar's a great player, and yeah Andrus is a year younger, but the numbers you're trying to use to defend Andrus really don't say he's a very good player either.

They say he's showing a hell of a lot more at 22 than Escobar did at 23.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If I were trading a guy one-year removed from a Cy Young award, I'd want the centerpiece to be something other than a slick-fielding, slap-hitting ss.

 

JMHO.

 

Who's to say he's the centerpiece? You could argue Cain or Jeffress as the main component. It's when you put all three together that makes it a great deal. Again, what is a "stud" in your mind? Buster Posey? Mike Stanton? Guys like that?

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jordan4life

[iamshack]

Who's to say he's the centerpiece? You could argue Cain or Jeffress as the main component. It's when you put all three together that makes it a great deal. Again, what is a "stud" in your mind? Buster Posey? Mike Stanton? Guys like that?

Yep. Exactly.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yep. Exactly.

 

Well that's just not realistic. Posey and Stanton both had questions marks when they were in the minors. Can Posey cut it as a catcher? Can he hit with enough power? Stanton strikes out too much, ect. Greinke is a really good pitcher. But he's not Felix Hernandez. I think the Royals did great. You're entitled to your opinion, of course.

[Eminor3rd]

Andrus at least shows some ability to hit for average, draw a walk, and steal bases. And he's more than a year younger than Escobar.

 

One thing to note about Escobar -- which I was well aware of because he was on my fantasy team last year -- is that very early in the season he got dropped down to the bottom of the order. That's significant because the Brewers manager was quoted somewhere as saying that he absolutely hates basestealing at the bottom of the order because it's too big of a risk for a low chance at a payoff, or something like that. Sure enough, Escobar only attempted 14 stolen bases all year despite playing in 145 games and accumulating 552 PA. All signs point to him having elite speed, and I think it's safe to say that if he were at the top of the order, he'd have a ton more than 10 steals.

 

Anyway, I agree that I'd rather have Andrus, if only for his better plate discipline. But I just wanted to point out that the stolen base total from last year is deceptive.

[southsider2k5]

Another way of looking at it...

 

BenBadler

 

A few folks asked what an equivalent package from TEX would be. My response: Andrus, Scheppers, Borbon, Erlin

[Jordan4life_2007]

Another way of looking at it...

 

BenBadler

 

A few folks asked what an equivalent package from TEX would be. My response: Andrus, Scheppers, Borbon, Erlin

 

I agree totally. Though I don't know s*** about Erlin. But Badler backs up my view that Esocbar and Andrus are pretty much clones.

[WilliamTell]

Glad to see him go to the NL.

Edited December 20, 2010 by WilliamTell