For Anyone Who Says a College Education isn't Important

[jasonxctf]

The value of education has never been clearer.

The unemployment rate for people who never graduated high school is 15 percent--depression-level joblessness.

For high-school grads with no college, unemployment is 10.4 percent, and for college grads it's just 4.9 percent.

[kjshoe04]

I'm not one of the 4.9%, but I am severely underemployed.

[The Gooch]

The value of education has never been clearer.

The unemployment rate for people who never graduated high school is 15 percent--depression-level joblessness.

For high-school grads with no college, unemployment is 10.4 percent, and for college grads it's just 4.9 percent.

 

Yeah but its hard out there for recent college grads. I am amazed at how many people I know that are either unemployed, or waiting tables/bartending/driving trucks etc. Not that there is anything wrong with those job, its just most people don't pay thousands of dollars to get a degree and then do those jobs. ALOT of recent grads are very underemployed right now.

 

I also don't think a college degree is necessary for a lot of jobs that require one. I am not against higher education (I am in school getting a masters degree right now), I just think that there are a lot of flaws with the entire college system in general, but that is another argument for another day.

[iamshack]

The value of education has never been clearer.

The unemployment rate for people who never graduated high school is 15 percent--depression-level joblessness.

For high-school grads with no college, unemployment is 10.4 percent, and for college grads it's just 4.9 percent.

So basically what this is saying is that the college graduates are unable to find enough employment in the jobs they are typically qualified for, and so they have resorted to taking the jobs they are typically over-qualified for, and this has put more non-college grads out of work...

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

So basically what this is saying is that the college graduates are unable to find enough employment in the jobs they are typically qualified for, and so they have resorted to taking the jobs they are typically over-qualified for, and this has put more non-college grads out of work...

Well no, that's your supposition of the details based on higher level data.

 

[iamshack]

Well no, that's your supposition of the details based on higher level data.

Ok...I suppose I should have typed "this is what I would infer from the data."

 

Would you infer something different?

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok...I suppose I should have typed "this is what I would infer from the data."

 

Would you infer something different?

Well to me, the most obvious thing it says is, any person's career road will be much, much harder without a college degree. Not that this is news, I think we all knew that. But the difference is stark.

 

It also tells me that, even in a deep recession, if you have a college degree, your job prospects are still pretty damn good.

 

But I really can't make any sort of qualitative supposition of the sort you did, about WHAT jobs they have, without seeing salary or other job detail data to go with this.

 

[Balta1701]

Well to me, the most obvious thing it says is, any person's career road will be much, much harder without a college degree. Not that this is news, I think we all knew that. But the difference is stark.

 

It also tells me that, even in a deep recession, if you have a college degree, your job prospects are still pretty damn good.

 

But I really can't make any sort of qualitative supposition of the sort you did, about WHAT jobs they have, without seeing salary or other job detail data to go with this.

Here is some data showing the underemployment surge, I think that's what you're asking for.

[iamshack]

Well to me, the most obvious thing it says is, any person's career road will be much, much harder without a college degree. Not that this is news, I think we all knew that. But the difference is stark.

 

It also tells me that, even in a deep recession, if you have a college degree, your job prospects are still pretty damn good.

 

But I really can't make any sort of qualitative supposition of the sort you did, about WHAT jobs they have, without seeing salary or other job detail data to go with this.

Fair enough.

 

But if you're saying that even in a recession your job prospects are best if you have a college degree, and one can assume that in a recession there are fewer jobs than under better economic conditions, wouldn't it stand to reason that this is because those with college degrees are taking the jobs that do become available at a higher rate than those without college degrees?

 

I guess this also depends on which jobs are being eliminated due to the recession, jobs that typically require college degrees versus those that do not.

[Balta1701]

I guess this also depends on which jobs are being eliminated due to the recession, jobs that typically require college degrees versus those that do not.

This one is easy...which industry has suffered by far the biggest hit because of the nature of this recession? Construction. Residential, commercial, etc., construction has been hammered by the bursting of the housing bubble. Construction employment is generally semi-skilled, pays pretty well, but doesn't require a college education.

[iamshack]

This one is easy...which industry has suffered by far the biggest hit because of the nature of this recession? Construction. Residential, commercial, etc., construction has been hammered by the bursting of the housing bubble. Construction employment is generally semi-skilled, pays pretty well, but doesn't require a college education.

Oh I don't know if it is as easy as you think....this recession has spread far beyond just the construction industry. I think it's definitely a big factor, as you point out, but with the layoffs and voluntary severances across all industries, I'm not sure that construction is necessarily the hardest-hit industry.

 

Edit: Ok, hah, Balta, I should never doubt you or your googling skills. I googled this and the first link of course was "Construction industry hardest hit by recession."

Edited December 31, 2010 by iamshack

[iamshack]

It seems as though the phenomenon of college-educated people taking jobs traditionally categorized as "noncollege level jobs" has been happening gradually over the last twenty years. I'm not sure if this is an argument for or against going to college, however.

 

Chronicle of Higher Education

[mr_genius]

It seems as though the phenomenon of college-educated people taking jobs traditionally categorized as "noncollege level jobs" has been happening gradually over the last twenty years. I'm not sure if this is an argument for or against going to college, however.

 

Chronicle of Higher Education

 

This job market is very tough for entry level workers and the long term unemployed. A degree is still very important, but I can see how someone who graduated in this downturn would feel like their investment isn't paying off. There's a lot of very capable new grads that just had the bad luck of graduating in a extremely competitive job market.

[iamshack]

This job market is very tough for entry level workers and the long term unemployed. A degree is still very important, but I can see how someone who graduated in this downturn would feel like their investment isn't paying off. There's a lot of very capable new grads that just had the bad luck of graduating in a extremely competitive job market.

Agreed, but as someone who graduated from undergrad in 03' and then from law school in 07', this has been the mantra of the newly graduated well before this recession hit. It's really been brutal out there for recent college grads for the better part of this decade.

[mr_genius]

It seems as though the phenomenon of college-educated people taking jobs traditionally categorized as "noncollege level jobs" has been happening gradually over the last twenty years. I'm not sure if this is an argument for or against going to college, however.

 

Chronicle of Higher Education

 

That is also true.

[mr_genius]

Agreed, but as someone who graduated from undergrad in 03' and then from law school in 07', this has been the mantra of the newly graduated well before this recession hit. It's really been brutal out there for recent college grads for the better part of this decade.

 

yea, and now things have just compounded. My cousin graduated from law school in that time frame and has had a difficult time landing a good job.

Edited December 31, 2010 by mr_genius

[Heads22]

Tell me about it.

[StrangeSox]

This is from the NYT from last November. You can control for a lot of different things, such as education level and ethnicity.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11...ment-lines.html

[The Beast]

I also don't think a college degree is necessary for a lot of jobs that require one. I am not against higher education (I am in school getting a masters degree right now), I just think that there are a lot of flaws with the entire college system in general, but that is another argument for another day.

I would agree that a college degree isn't necessary for a lot of jobs that require one. I look at the entry level jobs and think to myself, why did I major in something more challenging than a liberal art when I have the skills that this job description requires?

 

I guess what I wonder about is what exactly does an employer look for in terms of skills? Sure, I got a business degree, but it doesn't mean I remember a lot if any of what I studied, and I got at least 3.3 GPA. What I'm feeling is that I should have studied something more communications oriented (like Public Relations) because I would have had some actual skills to an employer in terms of how to write in a PR setting. Now I wonder if I should go get a Master's in PR at DePaul, even if it is real expensive, just so I can get some skills.

 

Otherwise, I'm just going to have to see all of you at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and tell all of you that I should have partied harder in college if I knew I was going to have to do menial jobs with my unique skill set.

[iamshack]

I would agree that a college degree isn't necessary for a lot of jobs that require one. I look at the entry level jobs and think to myself, why did I major in something more challenging than a liberal art when I have the skills that this job description requires?

 

I guess what I wonder about is what exactly does an employer look for in terms of skills? Sure, I got a business degree, but it doesn't mean I remember a lot if any of what I studied, and I got at least 3.3 GPA. What I'm feeling is that I should have studied something more communications oriented (like Public Relations) because I would have had some actual skills to an employer in terms of how to write in a PR setting. Now I wonder if I should go get a Master's in PR at DePaul, even if it is real expensive, just so I can get some skills.

 

Otherwise, I'm just going to have to see all of you at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and tell all of you that I should have partied harder in college if I knew I was going to have to do menial jobs with my unique skill set.

Seriously, Ross, this sort of "woe is me" attitude is exactly what will land you in a job you feel you are vastly overqualified for.

 

Once you get out into the real world a bit more, you'll find that your degree is a lot less important to what field you eventually get into than your ability to communicate well, with confidence, your ability and desire to learn new things, your willingness to work well and get along well with other team members, and your effort in getting the task at hand done efficiently and correctly.

 

And if you do have to start out at the bottom of the totem pole, their is nothing wrong with that. The adage "the cream rises to the top" is usually true when it comes to good companies, and if you do your best and apply yourself, you'll get a lot further in your career than constantly second guessing your degree choice or college choice, or b****ing about having to take a position that you feel is below you.

[The Beast]

Seriously, Ross, this sort of "woe is me" attitude is exactly what will land you in a job you feel you are vastly overqualified for.

 

Once you get out into the real world a bit more, you'll find that your degree is a lot less important to what field you eventually get into than your ability to communicate well, with confidence, your ability and desire to learn new things, your willingness to work well and get along well with other team members, and your effort in getting the task at hand done efficiently and correctly.

 

And if you do have to start out at the bottom of the totem pole, their is nothing wrong with that. The adage "the cream rises to the top" is usually true when it comes to good companies, and if you do your best and apply yourself, you'll get a lot further in your career than constantly second guessing your degree choice or college choice, or b****ing about having to take a position that you feel is below you.

The "woe is me" attitude stems from the fact that I don't know where I fit in an organization. I'm more of a written communications guy than spoken anything. The reason I didn't choose marketing is that I couldn't do sales (which is all I see out there for entry level jobs - they could fire me when I don't make the numbers since I know I couldn't cold call). The reason I didn't chose accounting or finance is because those bore me to tears. Administration/Management was pretty general so that made sense, but unfortunately none of what I've looked at in terms of requirements for communications jobs wants a business degree. So I either shot myself in the foot or I made a genius move - I don't know that yet. This is why I really just feel the need to sit down with people in different fields (comm, university work, etc) and see what further education that I need so that I have a path to go towards.

 

Certainly not many of you can see this, but I do my best and apply myself, as the GPA indicates, along with recommendations from professors. And it should be noted that several twentysomethings who are about to graduate have the exact same problem as I do in thinking, "What did four years of higher education do and where can I go since I don't have one of the hot degrees?"

[iamshack]

The "woe is me" attitude stems from the fact that I don't know where I fit in an organization. I'm more of a written communications guy than spoken anything. The reason I didn't choose marketing is that I couldn't do sales (which is all I see out there for entry level jobs - they could fire me when I don't make the numbers since I know I couldn't cold call). The reason I didn't chose accounting or finance is because those bore me to tears. Administration/Management was pretty general so that made sense, but unfortunately none of what I've looked at in terms of requirements for communications jobs wants a business degree. So I either shot myself in the foot or I made a genius move - I don't know that yet. This is why I really just feel the need to sit down with people in different fields (comm, university work, etc) and see what further education that I need so that I have a path to go towards.

 

Certainly not many of you can see this, but I do my best and apply myself, as the GPA indicates, along with recommendations from professors. And it should be noted that several twentysomethings who are about to graduate have the exact same problem as I do in thinking, "What did four years of higher education do and where can I go since I don't have one of the hot degrees?"

Ross, don't worry so much about it!

 

Take the best opportunity you can find through either blind luck or networking, and start moving your career forward. Work hard and apply yourself, and you'll find that you'll end up somewhere in general that you'd like to be.

 

Trying to plan out every move or limit yourself to this field or that field...unless what you are trying to get into is very technical, i.e., medicine, law, engineering, accounting, it really doesn't matter a whole lot what.

 

The key is getting your foot in the door somewhere and working your way up through hard work and application of your skills and personality.

[Chisoxfn]

I would agree that a college degree isn't necessary for a lot of jobs that require one. I look at the entry level jobs and think to myself, why did I major in something more challenging than a liberal art when I have the skills that this job description requires?

 

I guess what I wonder about is what exactly does an employer look for in terms of skills? Sure, I got a business degree, but it doesn't mean I remember a lot if any of what I studied, and I got at least 3.3 GPA. What I'm feeling is that I should have studied something more communications oriented (like Public Relations) because I would have had some actual skills to an employer in terms of how to write in a PR setting. Now I wonder if I should go get a Master's in PR at DePaul, even if it is real expensive, just so I can get some skills.

 

Otherwise, I'm just going to have to see all of you at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and tell all of you that I should have partied harder in college if I knew I was going to have to do menial jobs with my unique skill set.

Get off your high horse. Clearly you are pretty ignorant given the fact that Enterprise has been ranked many times over as one of the better places to intern and move your way up and is considered a good place to work in college and even after college you are given a lot of opportunities to shine and run the show.

 

I think the best advice is you need to quit crying and whining about things and putting down a ton of people every time you post because you have no idea what the real world is like. The real world is hard, it ain't easy, and you know how you make it in the real world, you combine smarts with a can do attitude and you bust your ass. If you have it, over time you'll rise to whatever point necessary.

 

Sure a little luck plays into the equation, but take a smart enough person with a college degree and a work ethic and they'll go far.

[Chisoxfn]

The "woe is me" attitude stems from the fact that I don't know where I fit in an organization. I'm more of a written communications guy than spoken anything. The reason I didn't choose marketing is that I couldn't do sales (which is all I see out there for entry level jobs - they could fire me when I don't make the numbers since I know I couldn't cold call). The reason I didn't chose accounting or finance is because those bore me to tears. Administration/Management was pretty general so that made sense, but unfortunately none of what I've looked at in terms of requirements for communications jobs wants a business degree. So I either shot myself in the foot or I made a genius move - I don't know that yet. This is why I really just feel the need to sit down with people in different fields (comm, university work, etc) and see what further education that I need so that I have a path to go towards.

 

Certainly not many of you can see this, but I do my best and apply myself, as the GPA indicates, along with recommendations from professors. And it should be noted that several twentysomethings who are about to graduate have the exact same problem as I do in thinking, "What did four years of higher education do and where can I go since I don't have one of the hot degrees?"

Let me tell you one thing, you don't even know what goes on in any of those professions by and large, I pretty much guarantee it. Why don't you quit micromanaging everything to death and change your mind every 10 minutes and instead do something.

 

And outside of having a degree to help establish you, your undergrad doesn't give you the skills necessary to become a millionaire or make 6 figures, etc. It just shows employers that you are capable of going through and accomplishing things. After that, most of what you learn that relates to your profession you learn in the field.

[mr_genius]

I would agree that a college degree isn't necessary for a lot of jobs that require one. I look at the entry level jobs and think to myself, why did I major in something more challenging than a liberal art when I have the skills that this job description requires?

 

I guess what I wonder about is what exactly does an employer look for in terms of skills? Sure, I got a business degree, but it doesn't mean I remember a lot if any of what I studied, and I got at least 3.3 GPA. What I'm feeling is that I should have studied something more communications oriented (like Public Relations) because I would have had some actual skills to an employer in terms of how to write in a PR setting. Now I wonder if I should go get a Master's in PR at DePaul, even if it is real expensive, just so I can get some skills.

 

Otherwise, I'm just going to have to see all of you at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and tell all of you that I should have partied harder in college if I knew I was going to have to do menial jobs with my unique skill set.

 

you have a business degree and need some work experience. Enterprise Rent-A-Car is a business, thus fits your field of study. Start building your resume and put in a couple years and move on or move up the ladder at Enterprise.