For Anyone Who Says a College Education isn't Important

[The Beast]

you have a business degree and need some work experience. Enterprise Rent-A-Car is a business, thus fits your field of study. Start building your resume and put in a couple years and move on or move up the ladder at Enterprise.

 

Just because I have a business degree, doesn't mean I want to go into business. I should have a communications degree because I can write pretty easily and would do better doing technical writing, speech writing or something PR related. This is why I mentioned getting a master's degree at DePaul in Public Relations. Basically, I realized the major that I was best suited for too late in college.

 

Get off your high horse. Clearly you are pretty ignorant given the fact that Enterprise has been ranked many times over as one of the better places to intern and move your way up and is considered a good place to work in college and even after college you are given a lot of opportunities to shine and run the show.

 

I think the best advice is you need to quit crying and whining about things and putting down a ton of people every time you post because you have no idea what the real world is like. The real world is hard, it ain't easy, and you know how you make it in the real world, you combine smarts with a can do attitude and you bust your ass. If you have it, over time you'll rise to whatever point necessary.

 

Sure a little luck plays into the equation, but take a smart enough person with a college degree and a work ethic and they'll go far.

Interning in what though? I have researched and all I read is sales, sales and sales. I'm seeing nothing on the communications end at all. Where in the hell are those positions as they have to be advertised somewhere? Who am I putting down? I'm just outlining what I don't think I would be successful at.

 

Let me tell you one thing, you don't even know what goes on in any of those professions by and large, I pretty much guarantee it. Why don't you quit micromanaging everything to death and change your mind every 10 minutes and instead do something.

 

And outside of having a degree to help establish you, your undergrad doesn't give you the skills necessary to become a millionaire or make 6 figures, etc. It just shows employers that you are capable of going through and accomplishing things. After that, most of what you learn that relates to your profession you learn in the field.

What professions am I not aware of? I took the courses and didn't care for them, so I doubt I would like the work that goes on in the real world. I am doing something - researching careers, going to career counseling and most importantly, trying to sell to my parents that I think I'm best at communicating through writing and that by working part-time and going back to school closer to home (DePaul or whatever), I will be in better shape since I'll have something to bring to the table. Without that education, I don't think I will know as much in terms of how to write for different organizations and if I can compete with freshly minted communications grads.

 

I don't give a rats ass about six figures or becoming a millionaire. Money means s*** to me, what would motivate me is doing something that I don't hate for the rest of my life and still allow me to support a family or at the very least live independently. And that's perfect because the field I'm considering is one where you won't get paid much.

 

Take the best opportunity you can find through either blind luck or networking, and start moving your career forward. Work hard and apply yourself, and you'll find that you'll end up somewhere in general that you'd like to be.

 

The key is getting your foot in the door somewhere and working your way up through hard work and application of your skills and personality.

Key words that you mentioned. Blind luck, networking, skills and personality. That is what I was trying to convey to the message board by trying to get into something that would mesh with my personality and skills, which will take blind luck and networking. I'm not entitled, just like any other college graduate to anything, other than being given an opportunity to do something with themselves so that they can live a life they wanted. Otherwise, if we're living something we hate and never reach our dreams (whatever it may be, career, marriage, family, etc.), then seriously, what is our reason for living?

Edited January 1, 2011 by MuckFinnesota

[bmags]

For the last time, your degree doesn't matter.

[knightni]

If money means s*** to you, why bother with a degree?

[The Beast]

If money means s*** to you, why bother with a degree?

Because I would like to do something with my life, and it seems as though (according to society standards!) you need a piece of paper to do what you want or live the way you want to live. All I'm saying is that the career that I enter doesn't have to be absolutely lucrative. It just has to be in the grey area where it is possible to make a living and take care of yourself and family along with fulfilling what you deem as being tolerable or even happy with in your work.

Edited January 1, 2011 by MuckFinnesota

[farmteam]

I'll be graduating from IU in May, and likely heading to law school after that. I'm not keyed in to any specific types of law or anything -- I sort of just plan on seeing what I like the most in school, and then more importantly, seeing what I like the most in the "real world."

[The Gooch]

And outside of having a degree to help establish you, your undergrad doesn't give you the skills necessary to become a millionaire or make 6 figures, etc. It just shows employers that you are capable of going through and accomplishing things. After that, most of what you learn that relates to your profession you learn in the field.

 

This is my problem with college education today. I would like for people to be able to show employers that they are capable of accomplishing things without spending thousands of dollars and putting in 4 years of their lives. I am not saying college is worthless. I just think undergrad should just be treated more like grad school. At grad school they pound necessary skills students' heads so that they leave with marketable skills in their field that most other people don't have (some undergraduate majors do this too, but a lot don't). People should be able to work their way up the ladder at Enterprise Rent-A-Car without going into debt. The point of college education should be to learn useful skills. Instead it is more of a selection tool for employers. A bachelors degree is the new high school degree except it is more expensive.

[JPN366]

Didn't go to college, I'm almost 30 and making damn good money in a cushy, low stress job. I would've gone to school for what I'm doing now, but instead I turned an internship into a paying job. I wouldn't be making much more money at all if I had a degree in my field. But I don't have student loan debts, so I'm actually making more money in the long run. I'm basically self made through hard work. Success and achievement are almost totally in your own hands in my opinion. My wife makes even more money than I do and she's only 27. She is 10 years younger than anybody else she works with and she busted her ass to get to where she is. It's all about how much effort you put in. The kids these days coming out of high school and college have their heads in the clouds and have no idea how much effort it takes on their parts. Especially the ones that don't realize that they can't text message and play on Facebook all day when they have a job. I laugh at the ones that think a job is waiting for them once they get a degree or the ones who think that making $26,000 a year is beneath them. I had my first job when I was 13. A lot of kids these days haven't worked any kind of job at all and they're in college. I'm amazed at their delusion. I may sound like an old man, but it's all true. The reality of life is no easy path and the sooner kids learn this, the better. I'm not saying college is worthless, but it still takes an exponential amount of effort on one's part to make it in the world.

Edited January 2, 2011 by JPN366

[Texsox]

During a down time, businesses will have a greater pool of potential workers for any openings. The candidate that offers the best option for the company gets the job. Of the two friends I have left looking for work, one has a college degree one does not. Both could probably be working today, but the one with a degree would be seriously underemployed, the other seriously underpaid. My friends with a HS diploma finds that companies will not pay him close to what he was earning before. 25 years experience in one industry and he's back to entry level every place he applies.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just because I have a business degree, doesn't mean I want to go into business. I should have a communications degree because I can write pretty easily and would do better doing technical writing, speech writing or something PR related. This is why I mentioned getting a master's degree at DePaul in Public Relations. Basically, I realized the major that I was best suited for too late in college.

 

 

Interning in what though? I have researched and all I read is sales, sales and sales. I'm seeing nothing on the communications end at all. Where in the hell are those positions as they have to be advertised somewhere? Who am I putting down? I'm just outlining what I don't think I would be successful at.

 

 

What professions am I not aware of? I took the courses and didn't care for them, so I doubt I would like the work that goes on in the real world. I am doing something - researching careers, going to career counseling and most importantly, trying to sell to my parents that I think I'm best at communicating through writing and that by working part-time and going back to school closer to home (DePaul or whatever), I will be in better shape since I'll have something to bring to the table. Without that education, I don't think I will know as much in terms of how to write for different organizations and if I can compete with freshly minted communications grads.

 

I don't give a rats ass about six figures or becoming a millionaire. Money means s*** to me, what would motivate me is doing something that I don't hate for the rest of my life and still allow me to support a family or at the very least live independently. And that's perfect because the field I'm considering is one where you won't get paid much.

 

 

Key words that you mentioned. Blind luck, networking, skills and personality. That is what I was trying to convey to the message board by trying to get into something that would mesh with my personality and skills, which will take blind luck and networking. I'm not entitled, just like any other college graduate to anything, other than being given an opportunity to do something with themselves so that they can live a life they wanted. Otherwise, if we're living something we hate and never reach our dreams (whatever it may be, career, marriage, family, etc.), then seriously, what is our reason for living?

 

So, its hard to sift through all the layers of self-contradictory statements here (you chose a business degree, you want to write for a living, but you don't want to work in business). But I do want to point out one thing... Do you really think Enterprise doesn't, on any given day, do a whole heck of a lot of written communication? You don't think you'll get more than a good opportunity for that in that environment?

 

Also, stop focusing on your major. Unless your undergrad was in Engineering or a few other very narrow disciplines, for the most part, it doesn't matter what field you got your degree in. Just having the degree at all is the key. Hell my degree (undergrad) was in Political Science... my first "real" job out of college was in law enforcement... then I ended up in financial technology, which is where I have spent the past 12 years. Got an MBA a few years back, once I was well-settled into a career.

 

This is my problem with college education today. I would like for people to be able to show employers that they are capable of accomplishing things without spending thousands of dollars and putting in 4 years of their lives. I am not saying college is worthless. I just think undergrad should just be treated more like grad school. At grad school they pound necessary skills students' heads so that they leave with marketable skills in their field that most other people don't have (some undergraduate majors do this too, but a lot don't). People should be able to work their way up the ladder at Enterprise Rent-A-Car without going into debt. The point of college education should be to learn useful skills. Instead it is more of a selection tool for employers. A bachelors degree is the new high school degree except it is more expensive.

 

See here is the thing about having a college degree. You say you want it to be about giving you marketable skills. Thing is... it does. Just maybe not the ones you are thinking of. The key elements in pretty much any job in business are things like maturity, communication skills, the ability to learn and adapt quickly, work ethic, and dynamic thinking. Four years of college is meant to give you exactly that, and here's the real killer - part of getting those skills includes the partying, the extra-curriculars, the sports, the friends... all the non-school stuff. Going off to school and learning to function on your own in all of that is a key part of what college gives you.

 

Of course, no one in these colleges, or your high school counselor, will tell you this. But it is unmitigated fact. What specific skills you learn from a specific class are only a part of the reasoning for requiring a degree for a job.

 

[farmteam]

See here is the thing about having a college degree. You say you want it to be about giving you marketable skills. Thing is... it does. Just maybe not the ones you are thinking of. The key elements in pretty much any job in business are things like maturity, communication skills, the ability to learn and adapt quickly, work ethic, and dynamic thinking. Four years of college is meant to give you exactly that, and here's the real killer - part of getting those skills includes the partying, the extra-curriculars, the sports, the friends... all the non-school stuff. Going off to school and learning to function on your own in all of that is a key part of what college gives you.

 

I definitely agree with this. Just going away and forcing you to live on your own makes you grow up real quick...but at the same time, college is more forgiving of mistakes than the "real world" I think.

[bmags]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/20/fiction

 

read this.

 

College teaches you how to think really intensively. You'd be amazed how big of an asset that is. It's not that people without a degree can't do these exercises as well, but it's really really important to have some time to think critically and through your ideas.

[The Beast]

So, its hard to sift through all the layers of self-contradictory statements here (you chose a business degree, you want to write for a living, but you don't want to work in business). But I do want to point out one thing... Do you really think Enterprise doesn't, on any given day, do a whole heck of a lot of written communication? You don't think you'll get more than a good opportunity for that in that environment?

 

Also, stop focusing on your major. Unless your undergrad was in Engineering or a few other very narrow disciplines, for the most part, it doesn't matter what field you got your degree in. Just having the degree at all is the key. Hell my degree (undergrad) was in Political Science... my first "real" job out of college was in law enforcement... then I ended up in financial technology, which is where I have spent the past 12 years. Got an MBA a few years back, once I was well-settled into a career.

 

 

 

See here is the thing about having a college degree. You say you want it to be about giving you marketable skills. Thing is... it does. Just maybe not the ones you are thinking of. The key elements in pretty much any job in business are things like maturity, communication skills, the ability to learn and adapt quickly, work ethic, and dynamic thinking. Four years of college is meant to give you exactly that, and here's the real killer - part of getting those skills includes the partying, the extra-curriculars, the sports, the friends... all the non-school stuff. Going off to school and learning to function on your own in all of that is a key part of what college gives you.

 

Of course, no one in these colleges, or your high school counselor, will tell you this. But it is unmitigated fact. What specific skills you learn from a specific class are only a part of the reasoning for requiring a degree for a job.

When the time came to choose another university and an area of study, I decided that business administration was the most practical. I had worked at the college radio station, lost passion for the work that I was doing, figured that the broadcast communications/print journalism field was both dried up and competitive and really I just wanted to learn something different after "working in media" at my high school. I don't necessarily want to write for a living either, but would gladly be a PR guy because there is no required degree for entry into that profession. All of my work experience is in communications and so I feel that if I can write or use social media, I could be a hot commodity to an organization's PR department. And even though I majored in business, I discovered that though I got high grades in all of my classes, most of them weren't that exciting. If I had more time, I would have gotten another major in PR, so that is why I'm considering a part-time job or working before I go back to school post graduation near the suburbs.

 

I understand the soft skills gained from going to school, but I know that my oral communication isn't the best. I'm not too socially inept, but I am not the sales type who would go up to random people at a party, I would rather stick with a small group and bulls*** that way. Written communication...I dominate. Spoken, not so much. But I understand your point and thanks for your story about your career path.

[kapkomet]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/20/fiction

 

read this.

 

College teaches you how to think really intensively. You'd be amazed how big of an asset that is. It's not that people without a degree can't do these exercises as well, but it's really really important to have some time to think critically and through your ideas.

I cannot agree more. That's the entire point of higher education.

[SoxFan1]

I'll be receiving a degree in Broadcasting this December with an emphasis in Broadcast News. It's a lot more specific than most degrees, but certainly a field in which you don't really have a shot unless you have some sort of degree in communication or the likes. It's also a consistently competitive field.

 

I'd ultimately like to be a play by play guy one day but I know it's going to be ridiculously hard. The unpredictability is the hardest thing for me to deal with, personally. I have no idea what I'll be doing after I graduate, and its only about 11 months away. It's scary.

 

Through internships I've done and talking to people in the industry, there's really only one thing that you can do, and this applies to any job market really: make yourself an asset. When I finished my internship last summer and was told I was one of the better interns they've had from one person and called a go-to-guy by another person, it gave me a ton of confidence.

[Texsox]

I could be a hot commodity

 

Not just to you, and speaking generally . . .

 

No, there are literally thousands of recent grads and all the way through your career, with the same skill set. Not to belittle anyone's talents or someone personally, and people do need confidence when interviewing, but there are very, very few "hot commodities" in the real world. Those are usually the ones that can have an immediate and noticible affect on the bottom line.

[The Beast]

I'll be receiving a degree in Broadcasting this December with an emphasis in Broadcast News. It's a lot more specific than most degrees, but certainly a field in which you don't really have a shot unless you have some sort of degree in communication or the likes. It's also a consistently competitive field.

 

I'd ultimately like to be a play by play guy one day but I know it's going to be ridiculously hard. The unpredictability is the hardest thing for me to deal with, personally. I have no idea what I'll be doing after I graduate, and its only about 11 months away. It's scary.

 

Through internships I've done and talking to people in the industry, there's really only one thing that you can do, and this applies to any job market really: make yourself an asset. When I finished my internship last summer and was told I was one of the better interns they've had from one person and called a go-to-guy by another person, it gave me a ton of confidence.

When I looked at schools I found that the comm department was the most interesting, particularly in terms of television programs...but then I discovered how competitive it was and needed to shy away since I wasn't a competitive person.

 

As long as you are willing to move all over the place, you should be fine. Maybe your skill set could land you a sports information gig somewhere - I know Dave Juday's brother Kevin was a Broadcast Communications major at North Central College and now is the SID at Elmhurst College.

 

Beef up the linkedin resume and start applying - the fact that you are a go-to person, or have been described as one, makes you have some sort of confidence in what you're doing so that's good. Good luck.

[southsider2k5]

I'll be receiving a degree in Broadcasting this December with an emphasis in Broadcast News. It's a lot more specific than most degrees, but certainly a field in which you don't really have a shot unless you have some sort of degree in communication or the likes. It's also a consistently competitive field.

 

I'd ultimately like to be a play by play guy one day but I know it's going to be ridiculously hard. The unpredictability is the hardest thing for me to deal with, personally. I have no idea what I'll be doing after I graduate, and its only about 11 months away. It's scary.

 

Through internships I've done and talking to people in the industry, there's really only one thing that you can do, and this applies to any job market really: make yourself an asset. When I finished my internship last summer and was told I was one of the better interns they've had from one person and called a go-to-guy by another person, it gave me a ton of confidence.

 

If you really want the radio angle, search out small stations and start to make your name.

[RockRaines]

For the last time, your degree doesn't matter.

Seconded, and you will have to take an entry level job at first, because people want to know you can actually do a job.

 

I have a psych degree with focus on child development. Right out of school I took a job as a ski instructor and needed money so I could move. I took an entry level b**** job at CDW where I made a blistering 23k salary. I move up, changed jobs twice and now I am still here, selling technology and making alot more money at this age than I thought was possible. I think alot of people are reluctant to just take a job because you dont think you would be doing it long term. My point is that you never know. I thoughts sales and especially entry level sales was something that was terrible and that I wasnt interested in whatsoever, well 7 years later I am still in the industry and thriving. If I want to move over and start my own business I believe now I have the skills to be able to run my own shop since I have basically been doing it for years. Take the plunge and work your ass off and you will open up doors, you just need to step through that first one.

[The Beast]

Seconded, and you will have to take an entry level job at first, because people want to know you can actually do a job.

 

I have a psych degree with focus on child development. Right out of school I took a job as a ski instructor and needed money so I could move. I took an entry level b**** job at CDW where I made a blistering 23k salary. I move up, changed jobs twice and now I am still here, selling technology and making alot more money at this age than I thought was possible. I think alot of people are reluctant to just take a job because you dont think you would be doing it long term. My point is that you never know. I thoughts sales and especially entry level sales was something that was terrible and that I wasnt interested in whatsoever, well 7 years later I am still in the industry and thriving. If I want to move over and start my own business I believe now I have the skills to be able to run my own shop since I have basically been doing it for years. Take the plunge and work your ass off and you will open up doors, you just need to step through that first one.

I wouldn't mind going to work up at a resort up north just so I could hide out and make some money while the economy gets better. My question to anyone on this board is, can anyone do sales? What makes someone good at it? What traits makes you successful in it? Do you actually like your job or do you like that you excel at something to bring in a return? Just a bit curious because as someone who doesn't believe he could do it, I would like to know a bit more about it before I close the door.

[southsider2k5]

I wouldn't mind going to work up at a resort up north just so I could hide out and make some money while the economy gets better. My question to anyone on this board is, can anyone do sales? What makes someone good at it? What traits makes you successful in it? Do you actually like your job or do you like that you excel at something to bring in a return? Just a bit curious because as someone who doesn't believe he could do it, I would like to know a bit more about it before I close the door.

 

#1 is being able to be told "no" all of the time.

[RockRaines]

I wouldn't mind going to work up at a resort up north just so I could hide out and make some money while the economy gets better. My question to anyone on this board is, can anyone do sales? What makes someone good at it? What traits makes you successful in it? Do you actually like your job or do you like that you excel at something to bring in a return? Just a bit curious because as someone who doesn't believe he could do it, I would like to know a bit more about it before I close the door.

Most people think of sales as some sort of slick, fast talked that can con you into anything they want you to do. This is simply not the case, especially in my industry.

 

Most of my job is listening, understanding what people's business is and what makes them improve at their jobs and add to their company's bottom line. Its really almost like going to a constant dinner party with strangers. You have to be able to talk to people and be able to be an effective listener. The other part of the job is understanding what your "products or services" can add to a company or individual. You can then connect those two pieces of knowledge into educated recommendations and hopefully people trust you enough to partner with you. There are alot of other pieces of sales, and you add those tactical pieces along the way.

 

In an entry level sales job you will learn about prospecting and closing small and frequent sales most likely. Then you may grown into a strategic position somewhere and then possibly management or an even larger scale sales gig. There are several reasons why I like my job:

 

1. No day is the same. I dont sit at a desk and pour over spreadsheets, I basically run my own business and divide up my time as I choose.

2. Performance-based pay. If I told you that the harder you work the more money you make, is that of interest to you? I'm in my 20's and make a very good base+commission package, and I know that if I put in the work day in and day out, I can make life-changing money, like seven figures.

3. Freedom. I can really be the face of my business. I can attack my territory or clients any way I choose and they learn to trust in the person and not the company I work for. I like the freedom to be myself.

4. Industry I am interested in. I like technology and so I feel like I just naturally learn about trends and industry issues because its of interest to me. It took awhile to find a company I felt that way about, but it happens.

 

 

Of course there are many negatives. You are graded on your performance therefor if you begin to slack off you can and will be fired. Alot of people are job-hoppers in this business because they cant stay at one place more than 2 years. Sometimes its them and sometimes you just dont have a great territory or good accounts. Lack of structure doesnt fit everyone, some people want to go to work, do a job, and go home. I work long days and nights sometimes writing proposals or doing dinner meetings, but also have days where I play golf and thats it. It depends if you dont mind putting in the hours overall.

 

I could go on and on. Sales isnt for everyone, but its a good place to start because in most jobs there is a sales aspect at some point and its not a bad idea to try it out. Plus sales jobs are almost always hiring.

 

[bmags]

and also not to make promises your company can't keep.

[StrangeSox]

e.g. check with your engineers to see if something is even technically feasible!

[RockRaines]

and also not to make promises your company can't keep.

Dont even make promises. I've learned to be very cautious and take alot of time with definite answers, especially when working for a software company.

[bmags]

you've never made delivery promises?