Is 2011 make or break for Ozzie?

[chisoxfan09]

It seems Rogers is pointing a picture of ultimatum for Ozzie this year. Thoughts??

 

Link http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,3684590.column

 

What has been more notable about the White Sox this winter — what they have done or what they have not done?

 

They have super-sized the payroll. Specifically, they have added free agent Adam Dunn and re-signed Paul Konerko and A.J. Pierzynski in the wake of adding Jake Peavy, Alex Rios and Edwin Jackson in the previous year and a half, taking the Opening Day figure near $130 million from $103 million at the start of 2010.

 

They haven't extended manager Ozzie Guillen's contract.

 

Barring a late change of heart by Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and general manager Ken Williams, for the first time in his eight-season run as manager, Guillen will enter the season with no contractual obligation beyond its end.

Guillen's current contract, signed in September 2007, expires after 2011 with an option for '12 that vests only if the White Sox win the American League Central.

 

Guillen's situation appears exactly that clear — win or go home.

 

By improving the lineup and keeping the starting rotation intact while Peavy works to get back as quickly as possible from surgery to repair a muscle below his right shoulder, ownership is giving Guillen a legitimate shot to overtake the powerful Twins (who don't seem as powerful with Justin Morneau and Joe Nathan attempting comebacks, Carl Pavano lingering in free agency and its bullpen in a transition stage).

 

On the other hand, ownership and the front office is sending a strong message that will be in play if things don't work out. That one never may be stated but it's this: Blame the manager, not us.

 

When Guillen and Williams clashed throughout an up-and-down 2010, one of the subtexts to the soap opera was Guillen had become the so-called face of the franchise because of his daily sound bites and standing as a popular former player. There never has been an ownership group or a front office in professional sports that likes to be told its manager/coach is indispensable, and the White Sox are no different.

 

They are saying to Guillen: Remind us again why you are so valuable.

 

Guillen worked through the media in an unsuccessful attempt to pressure Reinsdorf and Williams into a contract extension in September. It's easy to see why he would have expected one, as management previously had expressed its approval in him by giving him security.

 

Originally signed to a two-year deal with a third-year option before 2004, Guillen received a contract extension in May 2005. The new deal ran through 2008 with an '09 option but was extended in September 2007.

 

Ownership could have agreed only to an early exercise of the existing options but in both cases went one better, adding two additional years. It will speak loudly about a managerial change in the near future if Guillen does go into 2011 as a lame duck.

 

In the wings: Guillen should be in demand if he does leave the Sox after 2011.

 

The Marlins contacted Reinsdorf for permission to talk to Guillen about their managerial opening late last season and were told they could if they would give up a significant player in exchange, most likely 23-year-old outfielder-first baseman Logan Morrison, who had a .390 on-base percentage in 62 games as a rookie. The Marlins passed, opting instead to give interim manager Edwin Rodriguez the job on a permanent basis. But Rodriguez got only a one-year deal, so the job could be there for Guillen after 2011.

 

Rodriguez, who was Guillen's double-play partner for the 1984 Las Vegas Stars, understands many see him only as a place-holder for his friend. Guillen developed a relationship with Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria when he served as Jack McKeon's third base coach in 2003, the season the Marlins won the World Series after trailing the Cubs 3-1 in the National League Championship Series.

 

"I'm going to deal with the situation the same way that I dealt with it last year,'' Rodriguez said during the winter meetings last month. "When they called me up back in June, it was a one-day deal, a one-week deal, and so I just concentrate on the task at hand. … I approach it on a daily basis, one day at a time, and now they made an extension on that contract to 2011 … If I don't do my job, it could be Ozzie, it could be anybody. But if I do my job, I'm pretty sure that a good thing might happen."

 

Rodriguez hoped to share a drink and some conversation with Guillen at the winter meetings but Guillen already had left for Venezuela when Rodriguez arrived. The Phillies and Braves are considered stronger teams but the Marlins have Hanley Ramirez, solid pitching and potential young stars in Mike Stanton, Gaby Sanchez and Morrison. The lineup is in transition after trading or discarding Dan Uggla, Cody Ross, Jorge Cantu and Ronny Paulino since late in 2010.

 

Rodriguez says "win/win'' describes his situation.

 

"Not only because I am managing at the big-league level, but because I'm going to have a chance to manage a very young group, and also a very talented group,'' he said. "They have a chance to win a lot of ballgames, and they are going to have a chance to play together for a long, long time. I'm more excited about that than the fact that I'm going to be managing in the big leagues.''

 

[Eminor3rd]

Is 2011 'make or break' for Ozzie?

 

Hopefully.

[chw42]

It better be. You don't spend $120 million+ and lose the division.

[southsider2k5]

It better be. You don't spend $120 million+ and lose the division.

 

Sounds fair to me. Detroit and Minnesota have taken major steps back at this point. We should be the favorites.

[Balta1701]

Ozzie is not directly under contract for 2012 and can be cut loose by the team not picking up his option right?

 

You better believe it's make or break.

[Springfield Soxfan]

Lay it all on the table Ozzie this year, KW has given you the team if healthy to complete, I like the scenario.

[chisoxfan09]

He pretty much has been set up now to take the blame if we fail to win the division. He has got most of the tools now.

[Balta1701]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kenny Williams wound up calling it a career if the Twins win it again.

[southsider2k5]

Ozzie is not directly under contract for 2012 and can be cut loose by the team not picking up his option right?

 

You better believe it's make or break.

 

The wording of that story makes it sounds like the only exercise for the option is if the Sox make the playoffs.

[jphat007]

im fine with getting rid of him if we don't make the playoffs, but if we don't make it it won't be his fault.

[Balta1701]

im fine with getting rid of him if we don't make the playoffs, but if we don't make it it won't be his fault.

With this team? Who's fault could it be?

[jphat007]

With this team? Who's fault could it be?

 

The players? Or the Twins or Tigers? I just don't think that a manager has that big of an effect in baseball in a positive or negative way. The person that brings in the players and the players are the people who control whether a team wins or not. Ozzie's decision to go with Kotsay instead of THome had a much bigger effect on the team than anything he did in seasons.

Edited January 2, 2011 by jphat007

[iamshack]

The wording of that story makes it sounds like the only exercise for the option is if the Sox make the playoffs.

Well, the option vests if the White Sox win the division, and with the roster he's being given, it's hard to say that option would be picked up if he didn't do exactly that.

[Vote4Pedro]

The players? Or the Twins or Tigers? I just don't think that a manager has that big of an effect in baseball in a positive or negative way. The person that brings in the players and the players are the people who control whether a team wins or not. Ozzie's decision to go with Kotsay instead of THome had a much bigger effect on the team than anything he did in seasons.

The GM has set the team up for success. I dont think you can say that KW has not put this team in a position to have success. Ozzie still has to write the lineup cards (playing people from his bench more often than needed comes to mind) and has to be held accounted for at some point in time.

[jenksycat]

The players? Or the Twins or Tigers? I just don't think that a manager has that big of an effect in baseball in a positive or negative way. The person that brings in the players and the players are the people who control whether a team wins or not. Ozzie's decision to go with Kotsay instead of THome had a much bigger effect on the team than anything he did in seasons.

 

Good luck with that argument here. Everything is Ozzie's fault no matter what, its such a lazy argument.

[jphat007]

The GM has set the team up for success. I dont think you can say that KW has not put this team in a position to have success. Ozzie still has to write the lineup cards (playing people from his bench more often than needed comes to mind) and has to be held accounted for at some point in time.

 

I didn't say anything to disagree with any of that. I love what KW has done. And if we didn't win the division I certainly wouldn't fault him for going all in. And I'm fine with holding Ozzie accountable and firing him if it doesn't work. But I still don't think it'd be his fault. Even though we have upgraded the team we are still going to need a bunch of bounce back years to get where we want to go I think. That's on the players.

[southsider2k5]

Well, the option vests if the White Sox win the division, and with the roster he's being given, it's hard to say that option would be picked up if he didn't do exactly that.

 

Except it doesn't sound like a team option. It sounds like it only happens if they win the division. There seems to be no other way for the option to be picked up.

[Dick Allen]

He still has an option. There are many circumstances where the Sox don't make the playoffs in which Ozzie would return. But unless he's hit with some major injuries or another team plays out of its mind, and he makes it through the year without fighting with KW and Oney not popping off anymore, you would think Ozzie and Oney are on a very short leash in 2011.

 

When it does end, it probably isn't going to be pretty. Jenks comments are nothing compared to what Oney and Ozzie are going to say.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

Except it doesn't sound like a team option. It sounds like it only happens if they win the division. There seems to be no other way for the option to be picked up.

Well, without knowing the language of the contract, it's hard to be sure, but my guess is Phil just worded it this way to make his article seem as compelling as possible.

 

However, on cots baseball contracts, it lists it strictly as an option, and not a club option, as the other options in Ozzie's last few contracts were termed, so who knows.

[whitesoxfan101]

Good luck with that argument here. Everything is Ozzie's fault no matter what, its such a lazy argument.

 

And then there are people who never blame Ozzie for anything and just point to the players no matter what, who are just as stupid and wasteful of time, if not moreso.

 

I think it's pretty obvious 2011is make or break for Ozzie. The relationship between him and the organization is at the point where he has to win, or else keeping him around is pointless in their eyes. They can keep saying how relationships have been patched up, but you're only a bad few weeks away from that all going out the window.

Edited January 2, 2011 by whitesoxfan101

[greg775]

It better be. You don't spend $120 million+ and lose the division.

 

I can't believe the intelligent people on here think we are a lock to win anything and if we don't Ozzie should be canned.

First of all it was a miracle winning as many games as the Sox did last year.

Secondly, I could easily see this team sucking. Just because Dunn has been added and Crain?

That doesn't mean s*** except we are returning to the days we had another major league hitter (Dye before the second half collapse in his final season here; Thome before he was let loose n signed by the Twins) in the lineup instead of the abysmal Kotsay and mediocre Jones duo.

We have no proven closer.

Our starting pitchers were good at times last year, horses*** at times.

Peavy is a major question mark.

Our third base and second base are question marks (as much as I love Gordon's potential). Paulie could easily drop in production after that great great season of his.

 

We still have a powderpuff hitter in left who arguably is not a good leadoff hitter and has no arm.

 

Rios is no superstar. In fact, despite his nice season, he still has much to prove. After bouncing back last year, does he feel he has anything to prove? Will he regress?

 

AJ had an average season last year. Some might say until the last six weeks or so he sucked. He's not getting any younger.

 

And this team has shown no ability to beat Minnesota and even dominate the lowly teams in the division. Just because we added Dunn and Crain we are locks to win the division? We are locks to dominate KC, Cleveland and Detroit when we haven't dominated them the past two seasons at all, just because of Crain and Dunn?

 

I dunno about that.

 

This team isn't a lock to win s*** and if it doesn't it isn't necessarily Ozzie's fault.

 

That said, if I were Ozzie and thought I had enough money in the bank/investments, I would ask for an extension now in an ultimatum ploy. If he doesn't get one, he should resign.

 

He can be a bench coach next year somewhere in the NL, then get a managing job again, likely in Florida. He's a fool to go into the year with a one-year deal; a fool. Managers with a WS title under their belt have more leverage than one year deals. As much as people think the White Sox should win it all every year, the reality is the city of Chicago has one WS title in the last 10,000 years. That title was with Ozzie at the helm.

 

Ozzie's contractual situation will be a major distraction all season. How can it not be? Ozzie doesn't stifle on matters like this.

 

With Ozzie's mouth, the reporters will be able to bait him so easily. If the Sox are winning early, they'll be asking him about the extension and doesn't he deserve one NOW; if the Sox are losing, they'll be asking about him about likely not getting an extension. He'll say his old s*** of, 'If they don't like Ozzie, fire him now!'

 

It will be a HUGE mess with him unsigned past next year. Should be crazy to watch it all explode.

 

p.s. After reading Rogers' article, it's pretty obvious Ozzie will be Florida's manager after next season. This isn't going to work with him on a one-year deal. No way. Not with his ego. There will be sooo many fireworks. Might as well get it over now.

Edited January 2, 2011 by greg775

[soxrwhite]

I agree with the previous analysis of the roster All the Sox really did to improve was sign Dunn. Crain in but Jenks out. A hole at 3rd base. This was a pretty good team last year and they have a good chance this coming year, but certainly no lock and Minnesota is a clear favorite until we prove otherwise. Seems as though we have talked the talk on this site before.

 

Anyway the Ozzie/Kenny combo is growing old. Making Ozzie the fall guy, if we don't win it all, may not be fair, but that is the life of mlb managers. The latest incident (Jenks) with Oney cements in my mind the Guillen's are incorrigible and not to be trusted. He'll get one more shot. He will keep his mouth shut untill they are hopelessly behind then look out!

[chw42]

I can't believe the intelligent people on here think we are a lock to win anything and if we don't Ozzie should be canned.

First of all it was a miracle winning as many games as the Sox did last year.

Secondly, I could easily see this team sucking. Just because Dunn has been added and Crain?

That doesn't mean s*** except we are returning to the days we had another major league hitter (Dye before the second half collapse in his final season here; Thome before he was let loose n signed by the Twins) in the lineup instead of the abysmal Kotsay and mediocre Jones duo.

We have no proven closer.

Our starting pitchers were good at times last year, horses*** at times.

Peavy is a major question mark.

Our third base and second base are question marks (as much as I love Gordon's potential). Paulie could easily drop in production after that great great season of his.

 

We still have a powderpuff hitter in left who arguably is not a good leadoff hitter and has no arm.

 

Rios is no superstar. In fact, despite his nice season, he still has much to prove. After bouncing back last year, does he feel he has anything to prove? Will he regress?

 

AJ had an average season last year. Some might say until the last six weeks or so he sucked. He's not getting any younger.

 

And this team has shown no ability to beat Minnesota and even dominate the lowly teams in the division. Just because we added Dunn and Crain we are locks to win the division? We are locks to dominate KC, Cleveland and Detroit when we haven't dominated them the past two seasons at all, just because of Crain and Dunn?

 

I dunno about that.

 

This team isn't a lock to win s*** and if it doesn't it isn't necessarily Ozzie's fault.

 

That said, if I were Ozzie and thought I had enough money in the bank/investments, I would ask for an extension now in an ultimatum ploy. If he doesn't get one, he should resign.

 

He can be a bench coach next year somewhere in the NL, then get a managing job again, likely in Florida. He's a fool to go into the year with a one-year deal; a fool. Managers with a WS title under their belt have more leverage than one year deals. As much as people think the White Sox should win it all every year, the reality is the city of Chicago has one WS title in the last 10,000 years. That title was with Ozzie at the helm.

 

Ozzie's contractual situation will be a major distraction all season. How can it not be? Ozzie doesn't stifle on matters like this.

 

With Ozzie's mouth, the reporters will be able to bait him so easily. If the Sox are winning early, they'll be asking him about the extension and doesn't he deserve one NOW; if the Sox are losing, they'll be asking about him about likely not getting an extension. He'll say his old s*** of, 'If they don't like Ozzie, fire him now!'

 

It will be a HUGE mess with him unsigned past next year. Should be crazy to watch it all explode.

 

p.s. After reading Rogers' article, it's pretty obvious Ozzie will be Florida's manager after next season. This isn't going to work with him on a one-year deal. No way. Not with his ego. There will be sooo many fireworks. Might as well get it over now.

 

Thank you Ozzie's agent.

 

There's question marks on every team, some just have less than others. The White Sox are one of those teams with less question marks than most of the teams within our division. Detroit is thinking about starting Phil Coke. Minnesota barely has a bullpen left. If you spend $120 million this off-season and end up losing to the Twins again or underperform (anything less than 88 wins IMO), there's no reason Ozzie should stay unless the team has a bunch of injuries and things were completely out of his control.

 

Ozzie has absolutely no right to continually ask for a contract extension throughout the season. He has to earn it. He was the one who helped screwed up the entire DH situation last year and I'm willing to bet Kenny's fuse with him is very, very short. If he complains about a contract extension throughout the season and the team underachieves, he doesn't even have to resign, he'll be fired first.

Edited January 2, 2011 by chw42

[Rowand44]

On paper the Twins aren't even in our league. Doesn't mean we're a lock for anything because we certainly aren't but we're definitely the paper champions of this division.

 

And yes, adding Adam Dunn over Mark f***in Kotsay is a huge upgrade and I couldn't care less that we have no "proven" closer, our closer was hot garbage last season and there's no way that our committee or Sale or Matt or whoever is going to be worse.

[kitekrazy]

Hopefully the pitching staff won't fail again.