Balta1701 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) (and no, 2 months last year doesn't prove anything). As the stubborn guy who hated that trade...can I apply the same standard to Jackson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 lol, i love when someone mentions daniel hudson and all the Sox Farm protagonists come out and completely derail the thread ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) As the stubborn guy who hated that trade...can I apply the same standard to Jackson? Nope. Edwin Jackson has been the picture of consistency over his entire career. Sox win this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) Nope. Edwin Jackson has been the picture of consistency over his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) No it's not...not until Hudson proves he can pitch (and no, 2 months last year doesn't prove anything). Dan Haren didn't even yield anything close to the talent Hudson is. How the hell did Edwin Jackson? It's evident Kenny overpaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) Dan Haren didn't even yield anything close to the talent Hudson is. How the hell did Edwin Jackson? It's evident Kenny overpaid. I'm still dumbfounded that he threw in Holmberg and that no salary relief was involved at all in the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Soriano chatter? all those who sweat Hudson / hate-on Jackson have another thread................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) Dan Haren didn't even yield anything close to the talent Hudson is. How the hell did Edwin Jackson? It's evident Kenny overpaid. The Dan Haren trade was an outlier of a deal and comparing it to the Jackson deal is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) The Dan Haren trade was an outlier of a deal and comparing it to the Jackson deal is ridiculous. The same GM completed both trades. I don't think it's ridiculous to look at what the Angels gave up for a far superior pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) The same GM completed both trades. I don't think it's ridiculous to look at what the Angels gave up for a far superior pitcher. They are still two very separate deals, with the Haren trade being the first deal he made. Williams overpaid, but jesus christ, it happened almost 6 months ago. Why is this still even being discussed? It's f***ing pointless and aggrivating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 03:58 PM) Williams overpaid, but jesus christ, it happened almost 6 months ago. Why is this still even being discussed? It's f***ing pointless and aggravating. That. We have everything to be excited about in 2011, but now Dan Hudson is the new Chris Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) That. We have everything to be excited about in 2011, but now Dan Hudson is the new Chris Young. Ergo...Edwin Jackson is the new Javy Vazquez? We're doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 03:58 PM) They are still two very separate deals, with the Haren trade being the first deal he made. Williams overpaid, but jesus christ, it happened almost 6 months ago. Why is this still even being discussed? It's f***ing pointless and aggrivating. It's being brought up again because it's been proven that KW made the trade with the sole goal of landing Dunn. And not the BS that he made up about they really liked him and Coop wanting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well now they have both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Jackson is/was better than Hudson was last year. We were going for the division win last year. Jackson will most likely be better than Hudson this year. We are trying to win the division this year. Pretty simple to me. He didn't trade f***ing Nolan Ryan away, he traded a pitcher with 30 ML innings under his belt. I give KW the benefit of the doubt every time, and still will until Hudson becomes a legit top of the rotation starter. The number times he's fleeced organizations vastly outweighs the number of "OMG we traded away the greatest prospect of allllll time" trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 08:18 PM) Jackson is/was better than Hudson was last year. FIP Last year: Jackson: 3.86 Hudson: 2.45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 07:18 PM) Jackson is/was better than Hudson was last year. We were going for the division win last year. Jackson will most likely be better than Hudson this year. We are trying to win the division this year. Pretty simple to me. He didn't trade f***ing Nolan Ryan away, he traded a pitcher with 30 ML innings under his belt. I give KW the benefit of the doubt every time, and still will until Hudson becomes a legit top of the rotation starter. The number times he's fleeced organizations vastly outweighs the number of "OMG we traded away the greatest prospect of allllll time" trades. On no planet was Jackson better than Hudson last year. Jackson has never had an 11-start run like Hudson did last year. And before you go into the AL/NL crap. Check the teams each pitcher faced after the trade and tell me who pitched against tougher teams. Hint, it wasn't Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) I'm still dumbfounded that he threw in Holmberg and that no salary relief was involved at all in the deal. It's still the Holmberg part that bugs me the most, purely out of principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) On no planet was Jackson better than Hudson last year. Jackson has never had an 11-start run like Hudson did last year. And before you go into the AL/NL crap. Check the teams each pitcher faced after the trade and tell me who pitched against tougher teams. Hint, it wasn't Jackson. Oh my goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jan 5, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) It's still the Holmberg part that bugs me the most, purely out of principle. I totally agree. That's the part of the deal that bothers me too. We didn't get any money in return, AND we had to give up another player. I don't mind Jackson/Hudson swap, but to give up extra parts w/ no salary relief sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 01:19 AM) I totally agree. That's the part of the deal that bothers me too. We didn't get any money in return, AND we had to give up another player. I don't mind Jackson/Hudson swap, but to give up extra parts w/ no salary relief sucks. Well I mean Hudson for Jackson straight up was bad enough IMO, but the fact we had to add a decent SP prospect to a trade that was already heavy in the other team's favour, especially in a system devoid of LHS prospects...that's just rubbing salt in the wound. Ugh. Either way, what's done is done, and I'm optimistic about Jackson's 2011. I just wish it wasn't so expensive and wasn't just a one-year return. Even if he has a good year, is he Type-A material? I doubt it. If he was, it would hurt much less. I also remember when I interviewed for the Jays (pre-2009 draft) they asked me about an amateur pitcher I liked, and my answer was Holmberg. That adds a little sentimental value on my end, admittedly. Edited January 6, 2011 by Pale Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 12:28 AM) Well I mean Hudson for Jackson straight up was bad enough IMO, but the fact we had to add a decent SP prospect to a trade that was already heavy in the other team's favour, especially in a system devoid of LHS prospects...that's just rubbing salt in the wound. Ugh. Either way, what's done is done, and I'm optimistic about Jackson's 2011. I just wish it wasn't so expensive and wasn't just a one-year return. Even if he has a good year, is he Type-A material? I doubt it. If he was, it would hurt much less. I also remember when I interviewed for the Jays (pre-2009 draft) they asked me about an amateur pitcher I liked, and my answer was Holmberg. That adds a little sentimental value on my end, admittedly. $8.5M is really pretty cheap for Jackson. Last year, he put up a 3.8 WAR, which is worth about $15M. For comparison sake, Buehrle put up a 3.8 WAR last year, and was making $14M. All Jackson has to do, is put up a WAR of 1.9 next season to earn his contract, and considering he doubled that last year, he is fully capable of accomplishing that. Jackson at $8.5M or whatever he is making is actually a pretty good price, and to be a Type-A, I believe you have to finish in the top 20% in your league. For reference, Bronson Arroyo was considered a Type-A Free Agent, and he put up a 1.7 WAR. So I think the chances of Edwin earning Type-A status is actually pretty likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 01:43 AM) $8.5M is really pretty cheap for Jackson. Last year, he put up a 3.8 WAR, which is worth about $15M. For comparison sake, Buehrle put up a 3.8 WAR last year, and was making $14M. All Jackson has to do, is put up a WAR of 1.9 next season to earn his contract, and considering he doubled that last year, he is fully capable of accomplishing that. Jackson at $8.5M or whatever he is making is actually a pretty good price, and to be a Type-A, I believe you have to finish in the top 20% in your league. For reference, Bronson Arroyo was considered a Type-A Free Agent, and he put up a 1.7 WAR. So I think the chances of Edwin earning Type-A status is actually pretty likely. I agree that in a vacuum he has a reasonable price tag for 2011, but given the deal I just would prefer he was a better fiscal value. That would really make the deal much more tolerable for me (and again, I like Jackson). As for the Elias rankings, Jackson was neither a Type A nor B coming into this upcoming season. He needs to have a big year to get up there (by traditional metrics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 12:43 AM) $8.5M is really pretty cheap for Jackson. Last year, he put up a 3.8 WAR, which is worth about $15M. For comparison sake, Buehrle put up a 3.8 WAR last year, and was making $14M. All Jackson has to do, is put up a WAR of 1.9 next season to earn his contract, and considering he doubled that last year, he is fully capable of accomplishing that. Jackson at $8.5M or whatever he is making is actually a pretty good price, and to be a Type-A, I believe you have to finish in the top 20% in your league. For reference, Bronson Arroyo was considered a Type-A Free Agent, and he put up a 1.7 WAR. So I think the chances of Edwin earning Type-A status is actually pretty likely. You must have missed his 2010 season then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 12:43 AM) $8.5M is really pretty cheap for Jackson. Last year, he put up a 3.8 WAR, which is worth about $15M. For comparison sake, Buehrle put up a 3.8 WAR last year, and was making $14M. All Jackson has to do, is put up a WAR of 1.9 next season to earn his contract, and considering he doubled that last year, he is fully capable of accomplishing that. Jackson at $8.5M or whatever he is making is actually a pretty good price, and to be a Type-A, I believe you have to finish in the top 20% in your league. For reference, Bronson Arroyo was considered a Type-A Free Agent, and he put up a 1.7 WAR. So I think the chances of Edwin earning Type-A status is actually pretty likely. And Hudson put up a 2.3 WAR in just 95 innings for, what, 450K. A full season's worth and there's no reason he couldn't sport a 4.0 WAR better. He's got the minor league pedigree and has dazzled in 12 of his 15 career starts. Edited January 6, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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