ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:27 AM) You must have missed his 2010 season then. So I take it that means they average the past 2-3 season or something to get these rankings? Makes sense, although his past two seasons of 3.5 and 3.8 WAR are pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 03:14 AM) And Hudson put up a 2.3 WAR in just 95 innings for, what, 450K. A full season's worth and there's no reason he couldn't sport a 4.0 WAR better. He's got the minor league pedigree and has dazzled in 12 of his 15 career starts. I'm just arguing the point that Jackson actually a bargin, and not being overpaid. And I wonder what a 4.0 WAR in the NL translates to in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 03:18 AM) I'm just arguing the point that Jackson actually a bargin, and not being overpaid. And I wonder what a 4.0 WAR in the NL translates to in the AL. Yes. Another AL/NL reference. I love originality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 03:14 AM) And Hudson put up a 2.3 WAR in just 95 innings for, what, 450K. A full season's worth and there's no reason he couldn't sport a 4.0 WAR better. He's got the minor league pedigree and has dazzled in 12 of his 15 career starts. I'm not buying that Hudson is who we saw in Arizona. That was the best run of his career, including the minors. The guys college numbers weren't even close to that. His peripheral numbers are off of the charts. He is due for a pretty big regression to the means if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Ahem, Rafael Soriano for a moment. With the news that the Rangers are out as suitors for him (http://twitter.com/#!/jonmorosi/status/23042952779538432), and word that the Yankees are (so far) not exploring the option, who exactly is after him? Too much tells me the Sox aren't a viable option (Boras client, we have no money) but I think that whatever team steps up and offers Sori a "pillow" contract could get a huge bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm somewhat baffled that he isn't being pursued more aggressively by teams? Why is that? Admittedly I haven't been following the guy over the years but his numbers are quite impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Where is Tampa in all of this. They literally have no bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 11:12 AM) Where is Tampa in all of this. They literally have no bullpen. Tampa draws 4k a game, no one cares, including their management ... Can you say Charlotte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 11:05 AM) I'm somewhat baffled that he isn't being pursued more aggressively by teams? Why is that? Admittedly I haven't been following the guy over the years but his numbers are quite impressive. I think there are a number of factors. First, I think a lot of teams are nearly tapped out on money. Secondly, a lot of teams are realizing that it's cheaper to sign a middle reliever, develop 2 other middle relievers, then turn 1 of them into the closer, than it is to actually sign a closer. Third, I think Soriano in particular makes teams a little iffy, because he has a recent injury on his record; missed most of the 2008 season. He's 31 years old now, and his agent is Boras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) I'm not buying that Hudson is who we saw in Arizona. That was the best run of his career, including the minors. The guys college numbers weren't even close to that. His peripheral numbers are off of the charts. He is due for a pretty big regression to the means if you ask me. Way to go out on a limb there. lol. Of course he's not going to sport a 1.69 ERA over the course of an entire season. But 11 starts is basically two months of sustained dominance. His peripheral numbers have always been off the charts, minors and to this point in the majors. So I don't see where this 'regression' you speak of comes into play. I'd say an ERA in the mid 3's with a K/9 of 8+ and a WHIP around 1.35 or so is more than attainable. And at $450K, I'd gladly take that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) I'm somewhat baffled that he isn't being pursued more aggressively by teams? Why is that? Admittedly I haven't been following the guy over the years but his numbers are quite impressive. Only one closer in baseball is worth what Soriano and Boras are seeking. It's been proven too many times over the last decade or so that they're are much more efficient, and importantly cheaper, ways to go about finding a competent closer. Brian Wilson was a 24th round pick. Joe Nathan was a 6th round pick. Neftali Feliz was an amateur FA. Andrew Bailey was a 6th round pick. Joakim Soria was an amateur FA. Ryan Franklin was a 23rd pick. Heath Bell was an amateur FA. Hell, Trevor Hoffman was an 11th round pick. You can take nobodies like Kevin Gregg, Jon Rauch and David Aardsma and mold them into competent closers. Dishing out 10 plus million over 3-5 years to any closer, especially a closer with Soriano's injury history, rarely turns out well. See Francisco Rodriguez. Edited January 6, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) I'm somewhat baffled that he isn't being pursued more aggressively by teams? Why is that? Admittedly I haven't been following the guy over the years but his numbers are quite impressive. He has been one of the FIVE best relievers in baseball the last five years when healthy. I am dumbfounded as to the lack of interest. Since 2006, he has a 2.53 ERA, 0.96 WHIP and a 3.60 K/BB ratio. And he has been healthy since 2006 every year except 2008. He is the rare exceptions of relievers who don't have up-and-down careers, he has been dominant every year he has been healthy. What gives? God I wish we didn't have Teahen, that's $5 million that could go to Soriano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) God I wish we didn't have Teahen, that's $5 million that could go to Soriano. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) Indeed. People keep saying that...but in the grand scheme of things to a ownership group worth billions, 5 million is nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) He has been one of the FIVE best relievers in baseball the last five years when healthy. I am dumbfounded as to the lack of interest. Since 2006, he has a 2.53 ERA, 0.96 WHIP and a 3.60 K/BB ratio. And he has been healthy since 2006 every year except 2008. He is the rare exceptions of relievers who don't have up-and-down careers, he has been dominant every year he has been healthy. What gives? God I wish we didn't have Teahen, that's $5 million that could go to Soriano. Another $8 million from a particular trade that I won't dare mention would be nice as well. But I wouldn't want to spend it on Soriano. And I'm a huge fan of the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) People keep saying that...but in the grand scheme of things to a ownership group worth billions, 5 million is nothing. Worth, is worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) Another $8 million from a particular trade that I won't dare mention would be nice as well. But I wouldn't want to spend it on Soriano. And I'm a huge fan of the guy. Yeah that is big. Although i don't mind the swap of Jackson for Hudson in numbers for 2011, it's the money that is the big issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) Worth, is worthless. Ask the Padres and Dodgers about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 04:41 PM) Ask the Padres and Dodgers about that. Cash is different than worth. If you worth is locked up, you can't spend it. Honestly those two situations make my point for me. Just because something is worth a lot of money doesn't mean that one has access to that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) Cash is different than worth. If you worth is locked up, you can't spend it. Honestly those two situations make my point for me. Just because something is worth a lot of money doesn't mean that one has access to that money. Huh? How is losing a huge chunk of your fortune to a gold digging wife "not having access to cash"? I'd bet my non-existent house that if there was a meeting with KW and the "owners" and he said "we're 5mil over budget if we sign Player X, the last piece to our team" that ownership wouldn't say nope, can't do it too much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) Another $8 million from a particular trade that I won't dare mention would be nice as well. But I wouldn't want to spend it on Soriano. And I'm a huge fan of the guy. Well not if it were a long term deal. Hell, if Boras decides to go with a 1 year most money type deal, I'd throw whatever money we have left at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 BTW, the news of the day is that Soriano would be willing to be a set up guy for exactly one team... The Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) BTW, the news of the day is that Soriano would be willing to be a set up guy for exactly one team... The Yankees. Well that's fine because he'd compete for the closer's role here. Edited January 7, 2011 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) BTW, the news of the day is that Soriano would be willing to be a set up guy for exactly one team... The Yankees. A $10 to $12 million dollar a year set-up man when you already have a closer making $15 million. So that's almost $30 million dedicated to two relievers. That would be fiscally irresponsible even for the Yankees and clearly a panic move to counter what the Red Sox have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 01:51 AM) A $10 to $12 million dollar a year set-up man when you already have a closer making $15 million. So that's almost $30 million dedicated to two relievers. That would be fiscally irresponsible even for the Yankees and clearly a panic move to counter what the Red Sox have done. As good as Soriano is, $10 million for 70 innings that won't be pitched in the 9th is ridiculous. You can talk about how much a reliever is worth with regards to WAR all day, but at the end of the day, relievers get paid for WPA, and paying that for a guy to pitch the 8th inning would result in virtually little return on investment. It'd basically be a $10 million insurance policy on Mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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