ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 A couple days ago my Dbacks friend (and Bulls fan) and I were discussing our upcoming seasons. He is obviously miserable over his team, and he questions how the Sox are spending so much damn money. I jokingly brought up that maybe it's because the Bulls are good again and selling out, so Jerry is distributing their money to the Sox. I hate basketball, but admitedly have been rooting for the Bulls recently in the event that this theory is true. My friend argued that there is probably some regulations against such a thing, but I can't see any reason why there should be, or if there is. So I ask you, do you think Bulls revenue gains can/are affect/affecting the Sox payroll increase? Is this even allowed? I mean, since there is a cap in basketball, once you hit that cap, everything else is almost like "extra", right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The Bulls have been printing money for years. I read a Barry Rozner column many years ago where he was talking to a Bulls investor. This was after Jordan retired. The team wasn't winning 20 games a year, and the investor was embarrassed how much money they were making. The businesses are separate, although many of the investors are the same, and many are getting up there in years. Its possible one or some of those investors has decided to cover additional payroll for the White Sox by using some of the money they make owning the Bulls, its also possible Forbes estimates of White Sox profits over the years have been accurate. Its obviously something but the world will never know. All we know for sure is the last year and a half, everytime KW cries broke, the Sox add payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Yea, the BUlls have been profitable for a while, selling out tons of games, so I think JR just wants to win now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I dont know if the analogy hold up, but dont the yankees fund a bunch of their payroll from the YES network? If the Yankees are using profits off of a cable network owned by the team owner, wouldnt it stand to reason that the White Sox could use profits off of another team the owner has? Correct me if Im wrong, I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 09:03 AM) I dont know if the analogy hold up, but dont the yankees fund a bunch of their payroll from the YES network? If the Yankees are using profits off of a cable network owned by the team owner, wouldnt it stand to reason that the White Sox could use profits off of another team the owner has? Correct me if Im wrong, I have no idea. The Yankees own the YES network, just as the Orioles own MASN and the Red Sox own NESN and the Mets co-own SNY and the Cubs used to be owned by the same company as WGN. You can certainly shuffle money back and forth because there is no salary cap is baseball. You can spend every dime you can get your greedy hands on if you're willing to pay the luxury tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 08:03 AM) I dont know if the analogy hold up, but dont the yankees fund a bunch of their payroll from the YES network? If the Yankees are using profits off of a cable network owned by the team owner, wouldnt it stand to reason that the White Sox could use profits off of another team the owner has? Correct me if Im wrong, I have no idea. Yes. There is nothing to stop JR or another partner from throwing their own money into White Sox operations. If JR won the Mega Millions and decided to raise the Sox payroll $50 million using those funds, that would be fine. Supposedly the entire contract Cliff Lee would have received had he signed with Texas was going to be paid by a billionare minority owner. Legend also has it that when the Phillies discussed giving Jim Thome all that money, they initially decided against it, until one of their partners said he would fund it. I don't know it that is true or not, but Kruk said it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 08:03 AM) I dont know if the analogy hold up, but dont the yankees fund a bunch of their payroll from the YES network? If the Yankees are using profits off of a cable network owned by the team owner, wouldnt it stand to reason that the White Sox could use profits off of another team the owner has? Correct me if Im wrong, I have no idea. From a technical standpoint no. You can't take money from one team and put it directly into another. The Yankees own YES which is why they can use the profits. The Sox don't own the Bulls so it isn't the same exactly. What can be done is what is described a few times in here is one, or more, person(s) who make profits with the Bulls could decide to reinvest it into the Sox as new capitol. Its not a direct thing in an accounting sense, but the same idea can be accomplished easy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 03:35 AM) the Bulls are good again and selling out The Bulls always sell out. This is nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Bulls are a damn cash cow. Always have been, always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The Bulls' financial success since the Jordan era might be a reason why we're getting so much money this off-season. After all, Jerry is the majority owner of both teams and he can do whatever he wants with the money he makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I remember reading somewhere that Reinsdorf keeps the two clubs separate. Meaning, just because one is doing financially better than the other it doesn't mean he shifts money between the two. A quick Google search doesn't yield any proof though, so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 10:26 AM) The Bulls' financial success since the Jordan era might be a reason why we're getting so much money this off-season. After all, Jerry is the majority owner of both teams and he can do whatever he wants with the money he makes. JR is not the majority owner of the sox. He owns very little of the team, I believe it is still under 15%. However, he is voted as Chairman of the board so he runs the team for the investors. He onws more of the Bulls b ut I'm not sure of the percentage. Again, he is the Chairman of the board of the Bulls which is why he runs the team. Each investor can do what he wants with the money, if it's approved by the board. Each of cannot just say "here is extra money go ahead and use it." It would need to be approved. Some investors may not agree to it based on individual politics within the investor group. I doubt it would happen but all decision need to go through the Board just like any other company. The groups for the two teams are separate and they cannot just move money from one to the other. They are different companies and one comapny cannot give another company money without board approval. Edited January 2, 2011 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) JR is not the majority owner of the sox. He owns very little of the team, I believe it is still under 15%. However, he is voted as Chairman of the board so he runs the team for the investors. He onws more of the Bulls b ut I'm not sure of the percentage. Again, he is the Chairman of the board of the Bulls which is why he runs the team. Each investor can do what he wants with the money, if it's approved by the board. Each of cannot just say "here is extra money go ahead and use it." It would need to be approved. Some investors may not agree to it based on individual politics within the investor group. I doubt it would happen but all decision need to go through the Board just like any other company. The groups for the two teams are separate and they cannot just move money from one to the other. They are different companies and one comapny cannot give another company money without board approval. I don't think anyone was really referring to the technical aspects of the accounting, other than ss2k, who is in agreement with you. The question seemed to be whether it was against any MLB rules to use profits from another corporation or organization to fund an MLB team. It's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) JR is not the majority owner of the sox. He owns very little of the team, I believe it is still under 15%. However, he is voted as Chairman of the board so he runs the team for the investors. He onws more of the Bulls b ut I'm not sure of the percentage. Again, he is the Chairman of the board of the Bulls which is why he runs the team. Each investor can do what he wants with the money, if it's approved by the board. Each of cannot just say "here is extra money go ahead and use it." It would need to be approved. Some investors may not agree to it based on individual politics within the investor group. I doubt it would happen but all decision need to go through the Board just like any other company. The groups for the two teams are separate and they cannot just move money from one to the other. They are different companies and one comapny cannot give another company money without board approval. I did some more digging and pretty much came to this conclusion on my own. BTW, Reinsdorf owns 63% of the Bulls per wiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) I did some more digging and pretty much came to this conclusion on my own. BTW, Reinsdorf owns 63% of the Bulls per wiki. His Bulls investment makes sense. They bought the team from a group that included George Steinbrenner. That group just wanted to get rid of it, and JR and his group bought it without having to pay the others a dime. They assumed some debt or something. Lee Stern who is part of the White Sox and Bulls ownership groups was selling a book several months ago and told the story about JR buying the Bulls. He thought JR was crazy, and JR supposedly told Stern he could have as big of percentage of the team he wanted. Stern threw in $500k, and was laughing how much that wound up costing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) I did some more digging and pretty much came to this conclusion on my own. BTW, Reinsdorf owns 63% of the Bulls per wiki. i knew he owned more of the Bulls but I wasn't sure how much. I only spent a little time in the NBA and most of my freinds are in MLB and NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) I don't think anyone was really referring to the technical aspects of the accounting, other than ss2k, who is in agreement with you. The question seemed to be whether it was against any MLB rules to use profits from another corporation or organization to fund an MLB team. It's not. No it's not against the rules. You can invest whatever money you cn get your hands on. It's a business. The only difference is the anti-trsut exemption for business across state lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 If we're looking for where the Sox are going to get the money to pay for this team, the answer is right in the numbers. According to Forbes, the Sox have one of the lowest debt loads of any team in baseball, and the Sox have been a profitable team the last 2 years. Solidly profitable in fact, in the top 10 of the league, when you consider the lack of obligations. Adding $20+ million to the payroll will eat away a large chunk of that...however, the Sox have also achieved that profitability with a shrinking attendance base, no playoff revenue, and with an ascendant team on the north side. The Sox can probably absorb what they've already spent without any additional ticket sales, thanks to ad sale growth now that we're out of the recession. The real missing ingredient though is the 10,000+ empty seats per game. We've had attendance slowly eroding for the last 5+ years. Staying in the race the whole season, hopefully while getting off to a good start, will fill some of those seats. Beyond that, a single home playoff game is likely worth >$1 million in revenue. In 2006, the Sox were in a situation where they were probably pretty close to maximizing their potential revenue. 2007 really hurt, and then the ascendant Cubs combined with lackadasical Sox teams and a financial crisis really hurt as well. Now, the Sox can be an ascendant team again...and they're no where close to maximizing their potential revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Bulls constantly sold out, even when they were horrible. White Sox are spending money for various reason, lead one is JR is 74 and is likely exhausting his budget as far as he can, also, while they are not specifically the White Sox, the deadspin documents from last year show how creative team get with getting all the money they can out of a team, add that with the White Sox favorable lease at the Cell, they have money. This goes with JR being older, but he and his partners paid 19m for the Sox in teh early 80's, Forbes had the team listed in 2010 as worth about 400m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm sure Jerry puts all his profits into some sort of trust or separate company, so yea there's nothing stopping him from putting his share of Bulls' profit into the White Sox. He can do whatever he wants. It has nothing to do with league rules or anything of the sort. It's his money to invest where he pleases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 03:13 PM) Bulls constantly sold out, even when they were horrible. White Sox are spending money for various reason, lead one is JR is 74 and is likely exhausting his budget as far as he can, also, while they are not specifically the White Sox, the deadspin documents from last year show how creative team get with getting all the money they can out of a team, add that with the White Sox favorable lease at the Cell, they have money. This goes with JR being older, but he and his partners paid 19m for the Sox in teh early 80's, Forbes had the team listed in 2010 as worth about 400m. That doesnt mean they have more cash it just means they operate a more valuable product/organization. The 19M investment to 400M+ figure only means more cash in their pockets if they sell the team, or their shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 speaking of money...does anybody know what kind of money the Sox got for Peavy's injury?...or is it even settled yet (until he comes back)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jan 4, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) speaking of money...does anybody know what kind of money the Sox got for Peavy's injury?...or is it even settled yet (until he comes back)? Are you talking about insurance on Peavy? Because I heard something like that too. Like, we are spending the money we saved from Peavy on our payroll right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 4, 2011 -> 03:10 PM) Are you talking about insurance on Peavy? Because I heard something like that too. Like, we are spending the money we saved from Peavy on our payroll right now. yeah...that. Any clue how much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jan 4, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) yeah...that. Any clue how much? I don't know, but wherever I heard it from made it seem like a substantial amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.