iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 So yesterday I was bored at work and was playing around on the interwebs and decided to check on the resale value of my vehicle. I have a 2001 Audi TT Quattro coupe. While researching this, I discovered that apparently there is an issue with the timing belt on my particular make, model and year vehicle. The belt can go at any time and cause "catastrophic engine failure," requiring repairs well into the $5k range. I've read that once you surpass 60k miles, you are playing "russian roulette" if you drive the vehicle without getting the belt replaced. However, the manufacturer (Audi) suggests in the owner's manual that you need not change the belt before 105k miles or so, but then they discovered the flaw and intentionally concealed it from owners. They were sued in a class-action lawsuit, and have since settled. Basically, the settlement provides for the free inspection of your timing belt during any regularly scheduled maintenance, but if the belt needs to be replaced, it is the owner's responsibility. This costs some $1,400. The settlement also puts the owner on notice of a new maintenance schedule, which requires you to replace the timing belt every 30-40k miles, at $1,400 a pop. I decided I am not sure if I have a desire to deal with this issue, especially for a vehicle that is only worth about $10k at this point. So I began looking into getting a different vehicle. I've always thought there was really no debate - used was the way to go. But apparently, used car prices are at all time highs and new car prices are fairly low because of intense competition. Between these prices and the difference in financing, I am starting to think buying a new vehicle may be smarter in the long term than buying a used vehicle. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Cars are depreciating assets. Any way you can buy a vehicle at a low cost before it takes the largest losses you are in better shape. I personally really like new cars and not dealing with repairs so I have been leasing. Of course this was before I totaled my 09 G37x coupe last sunday and now I will be buying a car because of the mileage I have been racking up. I am looking at 1 or 2 year old cars because I feel the value is better. For example I just test drove an 09 SUV that was down over 20k from its sticker price when it was new. That to me screams value. Edited January 2, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 A decent chunk of the answer comes about in what kind of vehicle you're interested in as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 02:00 PM) Cars are depreciating assets. Any way you can buy a vehicle at a low cost before it takes the largest losses you are in better shape. I personally really like new cars and not dealing with repairs so I have been leasing. Of course this was before I totaled my 09 G37x coupe last sunday and now I will be buying a car because of the mileage I have been racking up. I am looking at 1 or 2 year old cars because I feel the value is better. For example I just test drove an 09 SUV that was down over 20k from its sticker price when it was new. That to me screams value. Yeah, this is mainly what I am seeing. Jason pointed out some things such as the rising price of used cars and the differences in financing last time this thread came up, so I thought I would revisit it. I'm finding that I can save $8-12k, prior to whatever the difference in financing (probably $1k or so) between buying new and used, so I'll probably try to find an 09'-10' low-mileage model and go with that. Looking at Audi S5's and Audi TTS's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) A decent chunk of the answer comes about in what kind of vehicle you're interested in as well. You're absolutely right, but in almost every vehicle, there is a very substantial depreciation in the first 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Yeah, this is mainly what I am seeing. Jason pointed out some things such as the rising price of used cars and the differences in financing last time this thread came up, so I thought I would revisit it. I'm finding that I can save $8-12k, prior to whatever the difference in financing (probably $1k or so) between buying new and used, so I'll probably try to find an 09'-10' low-mileage model and go with that. Looking at Audi S5's and Audi TTS's. Go with the S5 you little girl, TT's are for women ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 02:00 PM) For example I just test drove an 09 SUV that was down over 20k from its sticker price when it was new. That to me screams value. There's a combination of reasons why that vehicle is down in value though. First of all, it's a 2009 SUV. 2009 wasn't exactly a banner year for auto sales, so people and places that bought them were doing so either on discounts or with an assist from the government. Second, SUV's, at least up until the real energy price spike, have had the largest built-in profit margins on their list prices out of any vehicle type. Third, the indications are that there is another energy price spike building right now, and therefore, anyone holding an SUV for the next few months might take a larger loss on it than if they offered a bigger discount right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) Go with the S5 you little girl, TT's are for women ;-) Hey watch it, I have a TT now... The new TTS's are much more performance-oriented than the previous gen TT's were, and a bit more so than the previous 3.2 liter engine in the first versions of the second-gen TT's. I love the S5's, but they are so damn expensive...not sure if I want to have a $600 car payment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) Hey watch it, I have a TT now... The new TTS's are much more performance-oriented than the previous gen TT's were, and a bit more so than the previous 3.2 liter engine in the first versions of the second-gen TT's. I love the S5's, but they are so damn expensive...not sure if I want to have a $600 car payment... Before I got my g37 I looked hard at the A5 and left downright unimpressed, of course then they released the S5 and I was pissed. A buddy of mine has one and they are great cars though slightly overpriced. I still took him pretty easily with my 37 though... I havent driven the new TT's yet, didnt they add some high end trim levels as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 01:18 PM) Before I got my g37 I looked hard at the A5 and left downright unimpressed, of course then they released the S5 and I was pissed. A buddy of mine has one and they are great cars though slightly overpriced. I still took him pretty easily with my 37 though... I havent driven the new TT's yet, didnt they add some high end trim levels as well? Well, they are always adding some bs trimlines, but they made a TT an "S" car with the TTS model. It's got 265 HP and a lot more torque. Some new suspension modes and the dimensions are slightly smaller. It's definitely the closest a TT has come to being a serious sports car thus far, but soon there will be an RS model released that will have 340 HP, but also will be about $65k, which is waaay more than I want to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) Well, they are always adding some bs trimlines, but they made a TT an "S" car with the TTS model. It's got 265 HP and a lot more torque. Some new suspension modes and the dimensions are slightly smaller. It's definitely the closest a TT has come to being a serious sports car thus far, but soon there will be an RS model released that will have 340 HP, but also will be about $65k, which is waaay more than I want to spend. Why does it seem Audi likes to underpower their cars? Several years ago they seemed in step with the BMW releases and have fallen a bit back. Maybe they spent all their energy in making that ridiculously awesome R8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) Why does it seem Audi likes to underpower their cars? Several years ago they seemed in step with the BMW releases and have fallen a bit back. Maybe they spent all their energy in making that ridiculously awesome R8? I really don't know. It is especially prevalent in the TT models. I'm not sure if it has to do with wanting to meet certain MPG benchmarks or what. I'm not one to really insist on max performance, as in my experience it's just not worth the $ unless you are immune to traffic tickets or you take it to the track, neither of which apply to me. But on the other hand, you can't have a car that looks a certain part but just doesn't hold up it's end of the bargain. I'm really leaning a bit towards the S5, because it has a V8 with a manual 6 speed, but I am going to give these second gen TT's and the TTS a chance before I make any decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) I really don't know. It is especially prevalent in the TT models. I'm not sure if it has to do with wanting to meet certain MPG benchmarks or what. I'm not one to really insist on max performance, as in my experience it's just not worth the $ unless you are immune to traffic tickets or you take it to the track, neither of which apply to me. But on the other hand, you can't have a car that looks a certain part but just doesn't hold up it's end of the bargain. I'm really leaning a bit towards the S5, because it has a V8 with a manual 6 speed, but I am going to give these second gen TT's and the TTS a chance before I make any decisions. I hear ya, I modded by 37 up to 350+ hp and have been driving like a maniac on the chicago highways for quite some time. Once I totaled it last week I knew that I needed to tone it down overall or I would kill myself, in fact I should have already. My next car is going to be a much safer ride hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) I hear ya, I modded by 37 up to 350+ hp and have been driving like a maniac on the chicago highways for quite some time. Once I totaled it last week I knew that I needed to tone it down overall or I would kill myself, in fact I should have already. My next car is going to be a much safer ride hopefully. I got pulled over going 133 mph in my TT at 2 am on I80 near Tinley Park a few years ago. I had never seen a cop in the stretch I was on at that hour in like 10 years, and sure enough, THE ONE time I open that car up and actually get it into 6th gear, there is a cop sitting right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 No-brainer. Used is the way to go. Let someone else pay for the depreciation. And thanks to the internet, doing research on the history of a used car using VIN# is better than ever before, making the process safer. This way you can enjoy an awesome car like the S5 which you probably wouldn't be able to afford if new. Even though your monthly payment may be high, your total cost of ownership at the end might not be too bad depending on how much you drive. You could sell the car in a couple years and pay off the loan (and maybe then some). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 QUOTE (3E8 @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) No-brainer. Used is the way to go. Let someone else pay for the depreciation. And thanks to the internet, doing research on the history of a used car using VIN# is better than ever before, making the process safer. This way you can enjoy an awesome car like the S5 which you probably wouldn't be able to afford if new. Even though your monthly payment may be high, your total cost of ownership at the end might not be too bad depending on how much you drive. You could sell the car in a couple years and pay off the loan (and maybe then some). Yeah, it seems like unless there is some huge improvement in the new model year as opposed to a model that is 1-3 years old, that I should just go for the used car. Have to do some research on the warranties though to see what the cost of ownership will be in that 4th and 5th year in a used vehicle versus a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2011 -> 07:09 PM) Yeah, it seems like unless there is some huge improvement in the new model year as opposed to a model that is 1-3 years old, that I should just go for the used car. Have to do some research on the warranties though to see what the cost of ownership will be in that 4th and 5th year in a used vehicle versus a new one. If you can get it certified you will most likely be in good shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Most cars that are 3 years old or less can be half the price of a brand new car and are still under the factory warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 When I was on company car plans I had to buy new. We couldn't drive cars 4 years or older. The past ten years I have not had that situation and have been buying used and paying cash, which is really nice. I figured I would always be going that route until I needed a tow vehicle for a RV. That will be a full size pick up and that used market is scary and without any super values. I have a minimum of six months before I buy so I am hoping for a major market change. It kind of hurts that I really want the Dodge or Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I have never owned a new car in my life until three weeks ago and I never thought I would either for the depreciation issues noted. But for the base model Prius II I was looking at, there was only a $2K difference between a new 2010 and a 2008 or 2009. That fact, along with the fact that the financing was better on the new car, the fuel efficiency was slightly better, and it came with two years of maintenance and roadside assistance convinced me that new was the way to go this time around. I absolutely am loving the new vehicle — especially the 500+ miles I'm getting out of a tank of gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Jan 3, 2011 -> 08:49 AM) I have never owned a new car in my life until three weeks ago and I never thought I would either for the depreciation issues noted. But for the base model Prius II I was looking at, there was only a $2K difference between a new 2010 and a 2008 or 2009. That fact, along with the fact that the financing was better on the new car, the fuel efficiency was slightly better, and it came with two years of maintenance and roadside assistance convinced me that new was the way to go this time around. I absolutely am loving the new vehicle — especially the 500+ miles I'm getting out of a tank of gas. I've owned one new car, a 1999 Jeep Wrangler Sahara. Wrangler Saharas, in the past at least, and at the time I was in the market (1998), had always held their value well. I wanted a black one with a black hardtop, which seemed to be a difficult combination to find. There just wasn't much of an advantage to buying a used model since I would only be saving a few thousand dollars and would be inheriting an off-road capable vehicle without really knowing how it had been treated. So I went new that time. There are definitely some instances where one has to consider a new vehicle. But it appears that most of the time, unless spending the extra money is just simply not a concern for you, going used is the way to go. Edited January 3, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chi Town Sox Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I would search around for a great deal on a used car, I found a completely spotless, fully loaded '08 Grand Prix (leather, ground effects, etc.) for a little over $12,000. The sticker cost of the vehicle from earlier that year was about $31,000. 2 years later, the car has had no issues and I have loved it. I purchased it from the Community group which looked like they priced all of their used cars to sell quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 QUOTE (Chi Town Sox @ Jan 3, 2011 -> 12:24 PM) I would search around for a great deal on a used car, I found a completely spotless, fully loaded '08 Grand Prix (leather, ground effects, etc.) for a little over $12,000. The sticker cost of the vehicle from earlier that year was about $31,000. 2 years later, the car has had no issues and I have loved it. I purchased it from the Community group which looked like they priced all of their used cars to sell quick. This is what I did with my last car. Paid about $20k for it with 34k miles on it and everything very close to mint condition. Have owned it for 4.5 years now and it is worth about $10-12k still, so I am really happy with that. Unfortunately there is this stupid timing belt issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 We just bought the wife a used CRV from 08 with only 28k miles on it. We got pretty much a full warranty, plus it is loaded. The new one of the same thing would have cost about 10k more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) We just bought the wife a used CRV from 08 with only 28k miles on it. We got pretty much a full warranty, plus it is loaded. The new one of the same thing would have cost about 10k more. Yeah, this is a great example of buying a slightly used car versus the newest model year. With the quality and technology in cars these days, it really isn't as worrisome to buy a used car as it might have been in the past. I must say, it's always kind of fun for me to be in the market for a car. I enjoy doing all the research, from comparing the models, reading the expert reviews as well as the consumer reviews, searching for the best combination of options, etc. I admit, I did not enjoy this process when I first began looking for cars before the internet really exploded, but I do enjoy it now. I still really love Audi as a manufacturer, but my conscience is tugging at me a bit to consider these new electric vehicles, thanks to Sqwert recommending I watch that damned Collapse documentary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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