Realistic Adam Dunn expectations

[Bubba Philips]

If he completely and utterly tanks this season he should be a decent person and void this contract for his sake and the fans.

I'm sure Dunn is feeling bad about his performance but will he void his contract. Has any baseball player voided his contract since Curt Flood's case? Or even if he wanted to the player's union would step in to make sure he gets all of his 54 million.

[caulfield12]

Gil Meche, more due to injuries and the fact that he wanted to reward the Royals for showing faith in him with that 5 year/$55 million contract coming off an injury/surgery plagued start to his career with SEA.

 

And Meche actually earned his salary and then some, the first couple of years of that deal...giving the Royals a BIT of legitimacy/credibility in terms of going out to market themselves as a destination for free agents in the future.

[greg775]

If he completely and utterly tanks this season he should be a decent person and void this contract for his sake and the fans.

 

If you are serious then you might want to think about what you just said.

 

The chances of him voiding the contract "for his sake in the fans" are 1,000,000,000,000,000 to one, make that infinity to one.

[chisoxfan09]

If you are serious then you might want to think about what you just said.

 

The chances of him voiding the contract "for his sake in the fans" are 1,000,000,000,000,000 to one, make that infinity to one.

 

I wasn´t really expecting a snowball´s chance in hell this would ever happen but maybe in the next CBA there should be a new clause for guaranteed contracts that gives the team the right to re-negotiate or cut players without having to pay. I mean it should be fair just like we have regular evalutaions of our work. I hope he turns it around but it´s not looking good.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I wasn´t really expecting a snowball´s chance in hell this would ever happen but maybe in the next CBA there should be a new clause for guaranteed contracts that gives the team the right to re-negotiate or cut players without having to pay. I mean it should be fair just like we have regular evalutaions of our work. I hope he turns it around but it´s not looking good.

 

What are you talking about? They're not going to alter the way player contracts are negotiated because Adam Dunn forgot how to his a baseball for two months.

[Lillian]

Dunn has been very bad vs. left handed pitching for the last several years. That wasn't always the case, and in fact, he had a few years earlier in his career when he actually hit lefties really well. Scouts must have found a big hole in his swing vs southpaws, and the book on him is probably pretty well established by now.

 

Dunn's value to this team is to provide a left handed presence in a very heavily weighted right handed line up.

Versus left handed pitching, that function is not relevant, and he isn't good enough to be in there, when he serves no other purpose.

What exactly is he supposed to be bringing to the game? Is it his blinding speed? Or perhaps his great defense, which if he had it, wouldn't be relevant as a DH. The point is he serves no purpose vs. left handed pitching.

 

Any other player on the bench would be a better choice. Lillibridge is the best current option. He's very good vs. lefties, and when he plays his speed and defense add a lot to the team. He could play right, and let Carlos D.H. versus lefties. Or, he could play left, and let Pierre DH, although, many of us have our doubts about the merits of J. P. being on the field, in the first place.

Brent has certainly earned the playing time, and he would be a far better option than Dunn vs lefties.

 

And of course, an even more obvious solution here is to bring up Viciedo and platoon him with Dunn.

In order to get the youngster more playing time, he could spell Pierre a couple of games a week vs. right handers, and maybe even give Carlos a day a week off in RF.

 

Why is none of this apparent to management? In fact, why wan't this the plan from the beginning?

Edited May 30, 2011 by Lillian

[caulfield12]

Dunn has been very bad vs. left handed pitching for the last several years. That wasn't always the case, and in fact, he had a few years earlier in his career when he actually hit lefties really well. Scouts must have found a big hole in his swing vs southpaws, and the book on him is probably pretty well established by now.

 

Dunn's value to this team is to provide a left handed presence in a very heavily weighted right handed line up.

Versus left handed pitching, that function is not relevant, and he isn't good enough to be in there, when he serves no other purpose.

What exactly is he supposed to be bringing to the game? Is it his blinding speed? Or perhaps his great defense, which if he had it, wouldn't be relevant as a DH. The point is he serves no purpose vs. left handed pitching.

 

Any other player on the bench would be a better choice. Lillibridge is the best current option. He's very good vs. lefties, and when he plays his speed and defense add a lot to the team. He could play right, and let Carlos D.H. versus lefties. Or, he could play left, and let Pierre DH, although, many of us have our doubts about the merits of J. P. being on the field, in the first place.

Brent has certainly earned the playing time, and he would be a far better option than Dunn vs lefties.

 

And of course, an even more obvious solution here is to bring up Viciedo and platoon him with Dunn.

In order to get the youngster more playing time, he could spell Pierre a couple of games a week vs. right handers, and maybe even give Carlos a day a week off in RF.

 

Why is none of this apparent to management? In fact, why wan't this the plan from the beginning?

 

Because you don't pay a guy at age 31 $16 million per year over four years to be a platoon player.

 

Just like Ozzie won't take away Dunn's ab's and give them to Lillibridge or Viciedo. He almost always lets veteran players work out of slumps unless they're injured.

 

Nick Swisher is one of the only benchings of a high-salaried player (for a longer than 3-5 game span) that I can remember in the last decade.

 

 

[Lillian]

Because you don't pay a guy at age 31 $16 million per year over four years to be a platoon player.

 

Just like Ozzie won't take away Dunn's ab's and give them to Lillibridge or Viciedo. He almost always lets veteran players work out of slumps unless they're injured.

 

Nick Swisher is one of the only benchings of a high-salaried player (for a longer than 3-5 game span) that I can remember in the last decade.

 

I understand, but what would you do, if it were up to you?

[caulfield12]

I understand, but what would you do, if it were up to you?

 

 

I'd probably bring up Viciedo and play him everyday in LF against all but the toughest RH pitchers.

 

Pierre would be a PR and play maybe twice a week.

 

I wouldn't take at-bats away from Dunn...probably, I'd make Alexei Ramirez the new leadoff hitter.

 

 

 

Ramirez

Beckham

Quentin

Konerko

Dunn

Viciedo

AJ

Rios (Rios with 10 more days of starting before I benched him for Lillibridge)

Morel/Vizquel

 

I'd give that at least the full month of June to kick-start the team before I contemplated any trades in July.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

Dunn has been very bad vs. left handed pitching for the last several years. That wasn't always the case, and in fact, he had a few years earlier in his career when he actually hit lefties really well. Scouts must have found a big hole in his swing vs southpaws, and the book on him is probably pretty well established by now.

 

Dunn's value to this team is to provide a left handed presence in a very heavily weighted right handed line up.

Versus left handed pitching, that function is not relevant, and he isn't good enough to be in there, when he serves no other purpose.

What exactly is he supposed to be bringing to the game? Is it his blinding speed? Or perhaps his great defense, which if he had it, wouldn't be relevant as a DH. The point is he serves no purpose vs. left handed pitching.

 

Any other player on the bench would be a better choice. Lillibridge is the best current option. He's very good vs. lefties, and when he plays his speed and defense add a lot to the team. He could play right, and let Carlos D.H. versus lefties. Or, he could play left, and let Pierre DH, although, many of us have our doubts about the merits of J. P. being on the field, in the first place.

Brent has certainly earned the playing time, and he would be a far better option than Dunn vs lefties.

 

And of course, an even more obvious solution here is to bring up Viciedo and platoon him with Dunn.

In order to get the youngster more playing time, he could spell Pierre a couple of games a week vs. right handers, and maybe even give Carlos a day a week off in RF.

 

Why is none of this apparent to management? In fact, why wan't this the plan from the beginning?

 

As DFA'ing Peña is a pride thing for KW, benching Pierre in favor of Viciedo is a pride thing for Ozzie. He is firm in his belief that a leadoff hitter must be a speedy, lefty batter with little power. To take PA's away from Pierre in order to get Viciedo more playing time would be against his entire baseball philosophy. So no matter how obvious it may be to anyone else on Earth that Viciedo needs to be in this lineup taking away at-bats from Pierre, it won't be done on Ozzie's watch. KW could bring him up, but Ozzie would just force him to ride the bench 5 days a week. I'm confident that the conversation has actually happened at some point, but Ozzie has the upper hand since he can just say "I won't play him" and KW cannot make him play him because he has no power to fire Ozzie because of Reinsdorf.

 

So the great and powerful Oz has spoken.

[Lillian]

All of this "pride", obstinacy, and ego, makes this underperforming team even more difficult to watch.

At least some accountability would make me feel like rooting for them. I want to see Lillibridge, Viciedo, and maybe even Gallagher.

If they don't produce, then try something else. Dunn should not hit against left handed pitching util at least one of the following happens:

1) He starts to really produce big numbers versus righties.

2) His platoon substitute fails miserably.

3) Injuries force him to hit full time

[spiderman]

Realistic Adam Dunn expectations? Probably 200K and meaningful HR's once the team is 10 games out in June/July.

[spiderman]

I'd probably bring up Viciedo and play him everyday in LF against all but the toughest RH pitchers.

Pierre would be a PR and play maybe twice a week.

 

I wouldn't take at-bats away from Dunn...probably, I'd make Alexei Ramirez the new leadoff hitter.

 

 

 

Ramirez

Beckham

Quentin

Konerko

Dunn

Viciedo

AJ

Rios (Rios with 10 more days of starting before I benched him for Lillibridge)

Morel/Vizquel

 

I'd give that at least the full month of June to kick-start the team before I contemplated any trades in July.

 

This - isn't it time to give one our better hitting prospects time in the majors? We've given the current team 2 months to hit, and they haven't. Juan Pierre has hit better, but the team, due to the struggles primarily of Dunn, Rios, Beckham (and others)....just can't score consisently. Try Viceido.

[maggsmaggs]

As DFA'ing Peña is a pride thing for KW, benching Pierre in favor of Viciedo is a pride thing for Ozzie. He is firm in his belief that a leadoff hitter must be a speedy, lefty batter with little power. To take PA's away from Pierre in order to get Viciedo more playing time would be against his entire baseball philosophy. So no matter how obvious it may be to anyone else on Earth that Viciedo needs to be in this lineup taking away at-bats from Pierre, it won't be done on Ozzie's watch. KW could bring him up, but Ozzie would just force him to ride the bench 5 days a week. I'm confident that the conversation has actually happened at some point, but Ozzie has the upper hand since he can just say "I won't play him" and KW cannot make him play him because he has no power to fire Ozzie because of Reinsdorf.

 

So the great and powerful Oz has spoken.

And the funny thing is that Viciedo had the second best OPS on the team last year. It was over 100-plus at-bats, too, so while the sample size isn't large, it still is a meaningful number of at-bats. And he goes on to rake in AAA this year. And he raked in Spring Training. The kid has done everything under his control. Meanwhile we give the most at-bats on our team to one of the worst players in the Majors at the very position that Viciedo would be playing with us.

Edited May 30, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[southsider2k5]

Because you don't pay a guy at age 31 $16 million per year over four years to be a platoon player.

 

Just like Ozzie won't take away Dunn's ab's and give them to Lillibridge or Viciedo. He almost always lets veteran players work out of slumps unless they're injured.

 

Nick Swisher is one of the only benchings of a high-salaried player (for a longer than 3-5 game span) that I can remember in the last decade.

 

$14 million per year.

[Chisoxfn]

All I know is, the guy is worthless when we need a big hit or hell even a sac fly. I remember why I hated the guy for all the years. I thought at least we'd get a good OBP out of him and some power and that would somewhat off-set the low average, the even lower average when you go up against good pitchers and are in late game situations, plus the high strikeouts.

[Middle Buffalo]

I still feel like Dunn will hit 40 hrs this year. Nothing he's done supports that idea, but I can't see him not eventually hitting hrs.

[greg775]

I think Dunn and Rios deserve some regular bench time.

Rios should split duty with Lilly, sit him against righties you think he has no chance against.

Dunn should not play against lefties ... period.

I mean he can't hit a lefty, so why start him? Pinch hit him in games where lefties get shelled and righties come in.

[maggsmaggs]

I still feel like Dunn will hit 40 hrs this year. Nothing he's done supports that idea, but I can't see him not eventually hitting hrs.

I am hoping he hits just 20. Ain't no way he touches 40.

Edited June 1, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[Jordan4life_2007]

I still feel like Dunn will hit 40 hrs this year. Nothing he's done supports that idea, but I can't see him not eventually hitting hrs.

 

35 HRs over the next 4 months? Doubtful. I'd be ecstatic if he finished the season with 30.

[kapzk]

why does majority of you guys wanna rush up Viciedo? He is only 22 years old, well ya I know Pierre hasnt been impressive nor has Dunn but like what KW and Ozzie have been saying you need to give as much ABs as possible not just platoon him with Dunn vs Lefties and only play like 3 days a week. We already have witness somewhat of what rushing a player can result in (eg: Gordon Beckham). Heck even the Jays haven't called up Lawrie even with the horrendous production they have got from the 3B spot.

 

Let Viciedo mature as a hitter first, cuz if we want him to reach up to the elite potential level that he is capable of then we gotta wait till he polishes and improve his skills.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

why does majority of you guys wanna rush up Viciedo? He is only 22 years old, well ya I know Pierre hasnt been impressive nor has Dunn but like what KW and Ozzie have been saying you need to give as much ABs as possible not just platoon him with Dunn vs Lefties and only play like 3 days a week. We already have witness somewhat of what rushing a player can result in (eg: Gordon Beckham). Heck even the Jays haven't called up Lawrie even with the horrendous production they have got from the 3B spot.

 

Let Viciedo mature as a hitter first, cuz if we want him to reach up to the elite potential level that he is capable of then we gotta wait till he polishes and improve his skills.

 

Because he is getting paid like a major leaguer, and is dominating at the highest level of minor leagues. He has nothing left to prove in AAA. His big problem has been not being able to take a walk. And PRESTO, he has more than doubled his walk rate. He never really had a K problem, but he lowered his K-rate anyway.

 

The only reason I would accept for him getting more time in AAA is so he can better learn how to handle being an OF. This is the first year he has ever played the OF, so if they feel he needs to work on getting more comfortable, I am willing to accept that, although his bat will probably offset any defense faults he has now.

Edited June 1, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24

[oldsox]

why does majority of you guys wanna rush up Viciedo? He is only 22 years old, well ya I know Pierre hasnt been impressive nor has Dunn but like what KW and Ozzie have been saying you need to give as much ABs as possible not just platoon him with Dunn vs Lefties and only play like 3 days a week. We already have witness somewhat of what rushing a player can result in (eg: Gordon Beckham). Heck even the Jays haven't called up Lawrie even with the horrendous production they have got from the 3B spot.

 

Let Viciedo mature as a hitter first, cuz if we want him to reach up to the elite potential level that he is capable of then we gotta wait till he polishes and improve his skills.

We signed for $10mm for 4 yrs. 1.5 yrs left. If he can hit, bring him up. The arbitration/ FA clock is already running.

[Balta1701]

We signed for $10mm for 4 yrs. 1.5 yrs left. If he can hit, bring him up. The arbitration/ FA clock is already running.

No, the clock is not running for him. He was not signed to a deal that required cutting him at the end of the contract like other players have been.

 

He will not be a free agent until he accumulates the ~6 years of Service time. After 2012, assuming he's on the big league team, he will simply be a player whose contract the Sox can renew, which will then be followed by a couple years of arbitration eligibility. If the Sox hold off calling him up for most of the year, it's conceivable they could buy another year of pre-arbitration with him.

[DOWNTOWN PANTHER]

The season is half way through. I think that the Adam Dunn experiment can be called a failure to this point.