ThunderBolt Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 If the terms are fair, i don't see what's not to like about this. This gives us a lot of flexibility especially with our approach to Chris Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 06:48 PM) What would you rather spend our money on other than the bullpen? What other need do we have at the major league level that deserves more attention right now? You keep saying don't sign relievers to multi-year deals, but how else do you expect us to improve the bullpen in 2011 if we don't have any options available in our minor league system? I don't think we can afford to trade what little minor league talent we have for a reliever. I don't see another choice but to overpay in free agency, especially since we're all in 2011. QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 06:50 PM) I know you can no long post without using some extreme hyperbole, but give it a f***ing rest. The White Sox will have a payroll somewhere around the 120 million mark once the 2011 season starts. If they are moderately successful, it should stay around that point for the next 3-5 years. Will a two year deal worth 4-6 million dollars for Will Ohman really prevent the Sox from anything? Really? I'm not saying it will be a great signing if it happens, but it fills one of the final needs for this team( a solid LOOGY) and shouldn't hinder the Sox from making other moves. Relax. How many times does it have to be f***ing proven that signing mediocre relievers to multi-year deals rarely turns out well? Kalapse has done an excellent job of backing this up with solid data. Sure, it's not YOUR money so it's easy to say whatever. But a franchise that's efficient and run properly should be able to produce a competent loogy from within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 07:30 PM) How many times does it have to be f***ing proven that signing mediocre relievers to multi-year deals rarely turns out well? Kalapse has done an excellent job of backing this up with solid data. Sure, it's not YOUR money so it's easy to say whatever. But a franchise that's efficient and run properly should be able to produce a competent loogy from within. I agree that you can't give somebody like Ohman more than one year, but as long as we're not giving him the Scott Linebrink treatment, it's not a huge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ugh Will Ohman is ok I guess, he owns a career 40% GB%, which is the most important stat for pitchers in our park. The GB% is used to anticipate Fielder Independent Pitching in the Saber community. He Ohman posts that 40% number than his xFIP suggest a 4.24 ERA. Eh OK not great, fine, whatever. Ohman has had 3 season in which he had a Gb% over his career norm, and 3 seasons where he had a Gb% under his career norm. So he is the definition of hit or miss. My question is this. Knowing all this about Ohman, why not just bring back Erik Threets, they are virtually the same pitcher. I know its a small sample size but Threets pitched really well for the sox last year, 55.6 GB %, FIP of 2.84, and xFIP of 3.83. You can have Threets for the league minimum, you probably have to pay Ohman $2M for his services. I dont get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) My question is this. Knowing all this about Ohman, why not just bring back Erik Threets, they are virtually the same pitcher. I know its a small sample size but Threets pitched really well for the sox last year, 55.6 GB %, FIP of 2.84, and xFIP of 3.83. You can have Threets for the league minimum, you probably have to pay Ohman $2M for his services. I dont get it. IIRC Threets is hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) Ugh Will Ohman is ok I guess, he owns a career 40% GB%, which is the most important stat for pitchers in our park. The GB% is used to anticipate Fielder Independent Pitching in the Saber community. He Ohman posts that 40% number than his xFIP suggest a 4.24 ERA. Eh OK not great, fine, whatever. Ohman has had 3 season in which he had a Gb% over his career norm, and 3 seasons where he had a Gb% under his career norm. So he is the definition of hit or miss. My question is this. Knowing all this about Ohman, why not just bring back Erik Threets, they are virtually the same pitcher. I know its a small sample size but Threets pitched really well for the sox last year, 55.6 GB %, FIP of 2.84, and xFIP of 3.83. You can have Threets for the league minimum, you probably have to pay Ohman $2M for his services. I dont get it. Who knows? Threets isn't a sure thing. Neither is Ohman, but Ohman's at least done it for longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) Ugh Will Ohman is ok I guess, he owns a career 40% GB%, which is the most important stat for pitchers in our park. The GB% is used to anticipate Fielder Independent Pitching in the Saber community. He Ohman posts that 40% number than his xFIP suggest a 4.24 ERA. Eh OK not great, fine, whatever. Ohman has had 3 season in which he had a Gb% over his career norm, and 3 seasons where he had a Gb% under his career norm. So he is the definition of hit or miss. My question is this. Knowing all this about Ohman, why not just bring back Erik Threets, they are virtually the same pitcher. I know its a small sample size but Threets pitched really well for the sox last year, 55.6 GB %, FIP of 2.84, and xFIP of 3.83. You can have Threets for the league minimum, you probably have to pay Ohman $2M for his services. I dont get it. Threets is missing all of 2011 with injury. Tommy John I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) IIRC Threets is hurt. Was hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:24 PM) Threets is missing all of 2011 with injury. Tommy John I think. I thought he had like a toe injury or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) Was hurt Well he may no longer be hurt, but he certainly won't be throwing for a major league team in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) I thought he had like a toe injury or something. http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...=MLB&id=677 "Threets underwent Tommy John surgery in September and is expected to miss the entire 2011 season. The 29-year-old left-hander tossed 12 1/3 shutout innings with the White Sox this past season." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) 1.Over the last three seasons LH have put up a .223/.303/.386/.689 line against him. I'll take that out of my LOOGY. 2.Threets had TJ surgery in September, and will miss the entire 2011 season. You're now looking at LR-Pena MR-Infante LOGGY-Ohman SU-Crain SU-Santos CL-Thornton Hopefully by May/June, Sale is added, bolstering what should be an already strong back end of the pen. I think it's "LOOGY" with 2 O's. And doesn't Ozzie was 12 pitchers, not 11? I would think Anthony Carter may be added to your pen as well. LR - Pena MR - Infante MR - Carter LOOGY - Ohman SU - Crain SU- Santos CL - Thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) Ugh Will Ohman is ok I guess, he owns a career 40% GB%, which is the most important stat for pitchers in our park. The GB% is used to anticipate Fielder Independent Pitching in the Saber community. He Ohman posts that 40% number than his xFIP suggest a 4.24 ERA. Eh OK not great, fine, whatever. Ohman has had 3 season in which he had a Gb% over his career norm, and 3 seasons where he had a Gb% under his career norm. So he is the definition of hit or miss. My question is this. Knowing all this about Ohman, why not just bring back Erik Threets, they are virtually the same pitcher. I know its a small sample size but Threets pitched really well for the sox last year, 55.6 GB %, FIP of 2.84, and xFIP of 3.83. You can have Threets for the league minimum, you probably have to pay Ohman $2M for his services. I dont get it. Actually, GB% isn't the biggest deal in the world. I would guess that 12 of every 100 flyballs hit at USCF leaves the park, compared to 10 of every 100 throughout the rest of the majors which, if Ohman pitches to his career norms, means he'd probably give up 1-2 more home runs than he normally would. The end result is minimal. What the White Sox need is a good pitcher and Ohman is (sort of) that. Oh, and Ohman had 3 seasons above his career GB%, and 3 seasons below? If, in his first season, he put up a 50% GB rate, he'd have 0 and 0. If in his next season, he had a 55% GB rate, his career GB rate would be 52.5%, which leaves 1 season above and 1 season below his career norm. I think you see where I am going with this. The fact that he has 3 seasons above his career norm and 3 seasons below his career norm simply proves that variability in mathematics and pitching performance is true. You can't really read anything into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Threets had Tommy John. We won't see him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Threets had Tommy John. We won't see him this year. More on Threets injury from whitesox.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) I think it's "LOOGY" with 2 O's. And doesn't Ozzie was 12 pitchers, not 11? I would think Anthony Carter may be added to your pen as well. LR - Pena MR - Infante MR - Carter LOOGY - Ohman SU - Crain SU- Santos CL - Thornton Harrell could get the job to be the long man so Pena can slot to middle relief again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Threets had Tommy John. We won't see him this year. He was also released in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 08:33 PM) 1.Over the last three seasons LH have put up a .223/.303/.386/.689 line against him. I'll take that out of my LOOGY. I'm not saying you're wrong, but haven't there been issues in the past with Ozzie using these types of pitchers improperly? I don't think it's exactly a good idea to add this type of player if your coach cannot use him properly, presuming I'm not misremembering things. Please tell me if I'm wrong on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) I'm not saying you're wrong, but haven't there been issues in the past with Ozzie using these types of pitchers improperly? I don't think it's exactly a good idea to add this type of player if your coach cannot use him properly, presuming I'm not misremembering things. Please tell me if I'm wrong on that. Well he is definitely a LOOGY, but I think KW makes this move knowing that Sale is going to have to come out of the pen and start for awhile until Peavy gets back. This provides the 2nd lefty for our pen during the time where Sale is starting. If/when Peavy comes back we are going to have a pretty good bullpen. Thornton Sale Santos Crain Pena Ohman Infante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochisox Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Short of left-handed middle relief, the White Sox reportedly are on the verge of signing former Cub Will Ohman, who was 0-2 with a 3.21 ERA in 68 games for the Orioles and Marlins last season. Ohman, 33, pitched for the Cubs for seven seasons and is expected to sign for about $1.5 million. His value is against left-handers, who hit just .229 against him compared to .288 for right-handers. Although the Sox have lefties Chris Sale and Matt Thornton at the end of the bullpen, they do have a need for a situational left-hander. In the past, Randy Williams and Erick Threets have filled that role. Threets was released this winter after encountering elbow problems. http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/...ever-ohman.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) I can definitely stomach $1.5 million. You have to give Ozzie a LOOGY or else he'll try to use Randy Williams again or something. Edited January 8, 2011 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 10:33 PM) Well he is definitely a LOOGY, but I think KW makes this move knowing that Sale is going to have to come out of the pen and start for awhile until Peavy gets back. This provides the 2nd lefty for our pen during the time where Sale is starting. If/when Peavy comes back we are going to have a pretty good bullpen. Thornton Sale Santos Crain Pena Ohman Infante It also allows Ozzie his 2nd lefty if he wants to use Thor in the 9ht. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:50 PM) It also allows Ozzie his 2nd lefty if he wants to use Thor in the 9ht. Precisely. If Thornton is the closer (or some combination of Thornton/Santos/Sale/Crain as a 4-headed ninth inning monster) then it is completely necessary to have that 3rd leftie down there. What I don't get is why Will Ohman specifically? Nothing against him, I am sure he fits the bill, but Tim Byrdak is still available and is more effective against lefties than Ohman, if LOOGY is what KennyGM is after. Though, I suppose NOT signing Byrdak could represent a realization by KennyGM that ex-Royals never seem to pan out for him. *shrug* OK - nevermind. After looking through baseball-reference career splits for both guys, Ohman is clearly the better pitcher, aside from LOOGY duties. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...=Career&t=p http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...=Career&t=p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Byrdak walks way too many guys and doesn't strike out as many as Ohman. If you thought Ohman walked a good amount, just know that Byrdak's career BB/9 is nearly a half a walk higher than Ohman's. Byrdak's also had years where he went really home run happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I wonder what realistic chance either of Brian Bruney or Jeff Gray have at the 7th spot along with Carter, Infante and Nunez?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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