White Sox sign Will Ohman to 2 year deal worth $4mil

[clyons]

I like him a lot as a LOOGY. The deal doesn't bother me, as that seems to be the market. What bothers me is that he'll be left in to give up big hits to right-handers. I'll set the over/under right now at 4.

[Dick Allen]

I like him a lot as a LOOGY. The deal doesn't bother me, as that seems to be the market. What bothers me is that he'll be left in to give up big hits to right-handers. I'll set the over/under right now at 4.

Ohman's stats vs. LH hitters in 2010, are identical to Scott Linebrink's stats vs. RH hitters in 2010. Considering what they are paying Ohman and what they are giving to Atlanta to pay Linebrink, they basically swapped out a ROOGY for a LOOGY. Unfortunately Linebrink faced a slight majority of LH hitters. If Ohman faces a majority of RH hitters, the results will probably be about the same.

[clyons]

Ohman's stats vs. LH hitters in 2010, are identical to Scott Linebrink's stats vs. RH hitters in 2010. Considering what they are paying Ohman and what they are giving to Atlanta to pay Linebrink, they basically swapped out a ROOGY for a LOOGY. Unfortunately Linebrink faced a slight majority of LH hitters. If Ohman faces a majority of RH hitters, the results will probably be about the same.

 

True, but at least the career splits are much more stark. WO is like .210 against LH and SL is .270 against RH. I think Liney is a lot more brittle, too.

[southsider2k5]

I'm in between. I think this offseason thus far hasn't been as spectacular as some are suggesting. Like you said Dunn was a nice signing, but the others? Pretty blah to me as well. Minnesota never even offered Crain a contract. That has to say something what with their bullpen's mass exodus. Ohman, a former Cub and according to Les Grobstein, not exactly a good clubhouse guy is a loogy, a guy in his 30's who never made more than $1.6 million in a season and was just granted his first mutiyear contract, and we know Ozzie doesn't generally use veterans as loogys. And by some projections, the Sox may have 2 or 3 rookies in the bullpen. That could be scary. I am happy they brought back AJP and Paulie, although I think we will see some whining about Paulie's contract somewhere down the road, and probably justified whining, but they did what they had to do to bring him back.

 

On the other hand, compared to other AL Central teams, their offseaon seems to be a lot better. Detroit doesn't scare me. Cleveland and KC aren't going to do much, and what the heck is going on in Minnesota? I figured they would be due for a little letdown even if they brought their entire team back, but it looks like they are going to lose a lot of productive players. The Sox are sitting pretty right now.

 

It has more to do with their owner being f***ing cheap than anything.

[ptatc]

Thank you. That's all I'm saying. I'm the evil super pessimistic J4L because I'm not rating our offseason A+++++. But you do make a good point about the other teams in our division not doing a whole lot. I'll never ever sleep on the Twins. I don't care if they lose Mauer. Those fools always find a way.

 

I think it's more because you rarely say anything positive about the Sox, including the GM, manager or anything either of them do and not pertaining to this offseason.

 

Everyone knows you're a passionate fan but you sure do torture yourself about everything they do or don't do.

[Balta1701]

It has more to do with their owner being f***ing cheap than anything.

Yeah the guy's rich but be honest, the Twins in a good year still don't compete with a team from Chicago in total revenue.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think it's more because you rarely say anything positive about the Sox, including the GM, manager or anything either of them do and not pertaining to this offseason.

 

Everyone knows you're a passionate fan but you sure do torture yourself about everything they do or don't do.

 

Define positive? Why would I delude myself into thinking Crain was a great signing when I really don't believe that? Because it was the Sox who signed him, therefore I have to pretend it's great when I really don't? I guarantee you if the Cubs had signed him to the same deal there would be people all over this site talking about what a dumb move it was. Like I've said multiple times, Crain was pretty good last year. But from '07 through '09 he sported a 4.27 ERA and a 1.408 WHIP. So color me pretty skeptical. Then we give him three years on top of it? Did we not learn a thing from the Linebrink Debacle? And I've never been crazy about Loogy's. Guys that you MIGHT get 35 innings tops from? You SHOULD be able to produce guys like that from the system. But that's just me. I've raved about the Dunn signing. Not sure what else you expect me to say.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah the guy's rich but be honest, the Twins in a good year still don't compete with a team from Chicago in total revenue.

 

The Twins drew 1.1 million more fans than we did last year. In 2009 they drew about 130,000 more, but trailed us by about $30 million in total revenue. If you take that difference of a million fans times $30 a person, you make up the difference. Put it at a more realistic $50 a person, and they made about $20 million more than us. We won't know the numbers until April, but I bet the Twins made a significant amount more in revenue that we did last year.

[Balta1701]

Define positive? Why would I delude myself into thinking Crain was a great signing when I really don't believe that? Because it was the Sox who signed him, therefore I have to pretend it's great when I really don't? I guarantee you if the Cubs had signed him to the same deal there would be people all over this site talking about what a dumb move it was. Like I've said multiple times, Crain was pretty good last year. But from '07 through '09 he sported a 4.27 ERA and a 1.408 WHIP. So color me pretty skeptical. Then we give him three years on top of it? Did we not learn a thing from the Linebrink Debacle? And I've never been crazy about Loogy's. Guys that you MIGHT get 35 innings tops from? You SHOULD be able to produce guys like that from the system. But that's just me. I've raved about the Dunn signing. Not sure what else you expect me to say.

I know it's fun to compare the Crain signing to the Linebrink signing, but at least in my eyes, there was additional reason to be skeptical about Linebrink when he was signed than about Crain.

 

Linebrink's last great season was 2005. In 2006 and 2007, his number started marching upwards. He was, by the time the Padres traded him, just about an average pitcher; his last year in Petco, he put up a 3.80 ERA in that ballpark as a setup man for Hoffman. He was then traded to Milwaukee, where his ERA improved, but his WHIP with Milwaukee was 1.5, so he was really struggling there.

 

I think there really was a general feeling when we signed Linebrink that he was on his way downwards, but that he was at best a needed-stopgap.

 

Crain, on the other hand, is coming off of his best year since he was a 23 year old. Crain is 2 years younger than Linebrink was when we signed him. Crain has a longer injury history...that's his downside, and both of his bad seasons have been associated with injuries. On the other hand, one thing our pitching coach is pretty good at is keeping his guys healthy if its remotely possible.

[Chisoxfn]

Santos isn't a product of the Sox system. We lucked into him. And his peripherals scream regression. I have no idea why you threw Carter and Infante at me. They've proven next to nothing. And even Carter's minor league numbers were mediocre. Thing is I was more than willing to give both a shot at the expense of handing out 2-3 year deals to relievers.

You've been going downhill with your posting as of late, but this is just ridiculous. The White Sox were the first team to come to Santos and tell them they wanted him to pitch. They worked with him and made mechanical tweaks of him and they deserve absolutely all of the credit. Just like they deserve the credit for guys like Thorton. Of course Santos and Thorty also deserve credit.

[Dick Allen]

The Twins drew 1.1 million more fans than we did last year. In 2009 they drew about 130,000 more, but trailed us by about $30 million in total revenue. If you take that difference of a million fans times $30 a person, you make up the difference. Put it at a more realistic $50 a person, and they made about $20 million more than us. We won't know the numbers until April, but I bet the Twins made a significant amount more in revenue that we did last year.

The Twins payroll was over $100 million by the end of last season. I don't think the Pohlad sons are as frugal as their father. Another thing to consider, until now, the Twins were receiving revenue sharing money. Now, I read, they will be paying in. The article I read claimed about a $25 million difference. I'm sure they made a nice profit last season.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

The Twins payroll was over $100 million by the end of last season. I don't think the Pohlad sons are as frugal as their father. Another thing to consider, until now, the Twins were receiving revenue sharing money. Now, I read, they will be paying in. The article I read claimed about a $25 million difference. I'm sure they made a nice profit last season.

I'm not sure I understand this. As far as I understand, every team receives revenue sharing money. Are you confusing revenue-sharing with luxury tax? Or have I misunderstood revenue sharing this entire time?

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure I understand this. As far as I understand, every team receives revenue sharing money. Are you confusing revenue-sharing with luxury tax? Or have I misunderstood revenue sharing this entire time?

Link

Payors

Team Amount paid (millions)

New York Yankees $76

Boston Red Sox $52

Chicago Cubs $32

Seattle Mariners $25

New York Mets $24

Los Angeles Dodgers $20

St. Louis Cardinals $19

Chicago White Sox $18

San Francisco Giants $14

Houston Astros $11

Los Angeles Angels $11

Atlanta Braves $10

Texas Rangers $.035

 

Payees

Team Amount received (millions)

Tampa Bay Devil Rays $33

Toronto Blue Jays $31

Florida Marlins $31

Kansas City Royals $30

Detroit Tigers $25

Pittsburgh Pirates $25

Milwaukee Brewers $24

Minnesota Twins $22

Oakland Athletics $19

Cincinnati Reds $16

Colorado Rockies $16

Arizona Diamondbacks $13

Cleveland Indians $6.0

Philadelphia Phillies $5.8

San Diego Padres $5.7

Washington Nationals $3.9

Baltimore Orioles $2.0

 

Source: WSJ research

Edit; that's how the previous agreement worked. The numbers are a little softer in the last CBA, but there is revenue weighting.

[iamshack]

Interesting.

 

I guess I just misunderstood the accounting.

 

I assumed it was all thrown in a big pot and then divided up. Apparently they all take what they bring in and then settle it up later.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You've been going downhill with your posting as of late, but this is just ridiculous. The White Sox were the first team to come to Santos and tell them they wanted him to pitch. They worked with him and made mechanical tweaks of him and they deserve absolutely all of the credit. Just like they deserve the credit for guys like Thorton. Of course Santos and Thorty also deserve credit.

 

And wtf is that supposed to mean? Has my spelling gotten worse? Has my grammar fallen off? Has my VO-CAB-U-LARY taken a hit? Oh, I know. I don't kiss the White Sox collective asses every two seconds. Santos was not a product of the system. What are we debating? This is fact. Now I give them props for being able to, at least for 1 year, get decent production out of him. Thornton was 5 years ago. Again, I give them props for that and have for years. But the train doesn't come to a halt because of a nice move you made five years ago.

[Quin]

And wtf is that supposed to mean? Has my spelling gotten worse? Has my grammar fallen off? Has my VO-CAB-U-LARY taken a hit? Oh, I know. I don't kiss the White Sox collective asses every two seconds. Santos was not a product of the system. What are we debating? This is fact. Now I give them props for being able to, at least for 1 year, get decent production out of him. Thornton was 5 years ago. Again, I give them props for that and have for years. But the train doesn't come to a halt because of a nice move you made five years ago.

 

You've just been on a huge negative streak J4L. It just seems like everything is pissing you off, not you not-kissing-White-Sox-ass.

 

The debate for Santos being a product of the system is he was groomed as a pitcher solely by the White Sox.

 

But man, it's gotten to the point where I don't even think acquiring Carlos Gonzalez and Mike Stanton would make you happy because CarGo's on a long deal and Stanton will only be a sophomore next year.

[iamshack]

And wtf is that supposed to mean? Has my spelling gotten worse? Has my grammar fallen off? Has my VO-CAB-U-LARY taken a hit? Oh, I know. I don't kiss the White Sox collective asses every two seconds. Santos was not a product of the system. What are we debating? This is fact. Now I give them props for being able to, at least for 1 year, get decent production out of him. Thornton was 5 years ago. Again, I give them props for that and have for years. But the train doesn't come to a halt because of a nice move you made five years ago.

So what exactly does count, J4L?

 

Surely the Rockies should get no credit for CarGo...since he wasn't part of their system...

 

Come on...you're being way too defensive here...

[Jordan4life_2007]

You've just been on a huge negative streak J4L. It just seems like everything is pissing you off, not you not-kissing-White-Sox-ass.

 

The debate for Santos being a product of the system is he was groomed as a pitcher solely by the White Sox.

 

But man, it's gotten to the point where I don't even think acquiring Carlos Gonzalez and Mike Stanton would make you happy because CarGo's on a long deal and Stanton will only be a sophomore next year.

 

Now I want you to google the Adam Dunn acquisition thread and read my posts in that thread. It shouldn't be too hard to find since it was so recent. And then tell me I just hate just to hate. Matter a fact I'll find it myself.

[scenario]

So... no credit to the Sox player development and coaching staffs for turning a struggling minor league shortstop into a serviceable major league reliever, eh?

 

That was just an accident that we lucked into?

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

So what exactly does count, J4L?

 

Surely the Rockies should get no credit for CarGo...since he wasn't part of their system...

 

Come on...you're being way too defensive here...

 

Defensive my ass. I'm getting sick of this s***. This place is turning into WSI right before my eyes. I think the Sox have had a good but not great offseason. And I'm getting chastised for it. It's my opinion. I have not gotten confrontational with anybody that thinks the Sox have had a GREAT offseason.

[Quin]

Now I want you to google the Adam Dunn acquisition thread and read my posts in that thread. It shouldn't be too hard to find since it was so recent. And then tell me I just hate just to hate. Matter a fact I'll find it myself.

 

Dude, I know you were ecstatic, I don't need to go digging for it.

 

You aren't hating just to hate, but it seems like minor annoyances are becoming HUGE annoyances to you. Sure, three year deals to relievers more often then not don't pan out, PK will probably regress (I won't say definitely, since no one saw his 2010 coming), who knows about Quentin, Gordon, and AJ bouncing back, or about the pen with it's most dominant reliever moving to a more limited role and losing two big arms, Ohman never has gotten a multi-year deal before, EJax is $8.5M that could be given to Soriano or another closer, Peavy could be a huge pricetag and nothing else etc.

 

But the thing is, this team won 88 games last year without a DH, without it's ace, with a long stretch of mediocrity from the rotation, with just one stable bat for the entire year, with a shaky-as-nothing-else closer and now we've got that DH, we'll probably get that ace back, our closer will (hopefully) continue being a rock, and hopefully whatever the rotation did to turn it around last year carries over.

 

That being said, I'm an optimist when it comes to sports, this team could still lose to the Twins. Not saying they will, but it is still very likely.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Quinarvy

[iamshack]

Defensive my ass. I'm getting sick of this s***. This place is turning into WSI right before my eyes. I think the Sox have had a good but not great offseason. And I'm getting chastised for it. It's my opinion. I have not gotten confrontational with anybody that thinks the Sox have had a GREAT offseason.

I'm not in love with the moves we made either, but come on, you don't think you're using a little bit of overkill here? Just seems like you're surprised that you're being challenged so much...well that's what happens when you take the extreme minority opinion and are vocal about it, to boot.

 

I don't have any problem with you voicing your opinion - heck, contrasting/conflicting opinions are what make message boards great for debate and discussion. But it just seems like you're shocked that people are fighting you tooth and nail about it, and so your frustration with that is carrying over into your position.

 

I, for one, hope you keep up with the criticism, because it keeps those of us wearing the White Sox-colored glasses in check; just don't take it so personally...

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm not in love with the moves we made either, but come on, you don't think you're using a little bit of overkill here? Just seems like you're surprised that you're being challenged so much...well that's what happens when you take the extreme minority opinion and are vocal about it, to boot.

 

I don't have any problem with you voicing your opinion - heck, contrasting/conflicting opinions are what make message boards great for debate and discussion. But it just seems like you're shocked that people are fighting you tooth and nail about it, and so your frustration with that is carrying over into your position.

 

I, for one, hope you keep up with the criticism, because it keeps those of us wearing the White Sox-colored glasses in check; just don't take it so personally...

 

Look, I been posting here since July of '03. I know my join date says February '04 but that's only because I forgot the password to my original name and had to create another one. I was just like Rowand44, Soxace and jphat before he went crazy. Just optimistic about EVERYTHING. Then you got somebody like fathom, who I think is one of the best posters around, who's been a 'pessimist' since day one, but that's OK because it's expected from him. 2005 changed the game for me. I cherish that year like no other. But I was never one of those 'I don't care what happens from this point on because we finally won it all' guys. It's like getting your first piece of ass. You want it over and over and over again. Imo, this franchise deserves a lot of criticism for not being able to build off that amazing 2005 season. The city was ours for the taking. And we have not taken advantage. That doesn't mean I hate EVERY move we make. I loved the Peavy trade and the Dunn signing. And there's a lot of moves we've made that I've despised. Do I go a little overboard at times? Maybe. But so what? What's the big deal? Ranger makes me want to kill small animals at times with his homerism. But I respect his opinion and don't go apes*** when I don't agree with him. This all started when I gave the Sox off-season grade a B minus and I got anally violated. That's what made me mad.

[NorthSideSox72]

Look, I been posting here since July of '03. I know my join date says February '04 but that's only because I forgot the password to my original name and had to create another one. I was just like Rowand44, Soxace and jphat before he went crazy. Just optimistic about EVERYTHING. Then you got somebody like fathom, who I think is one of the best posters around, who's been a 'pessimist' since day one, but that's OK because it's expected from him. 2005 changed the game for me. I cherish that year like no other. But I was never one of those 'I don't care what happens from this point on because we finally won it all' guys. It's like getting your first piece of ass. You want it over and over and over again. Imo, this franchise deserves a lot of criticism for not being able to build off that amazing 2005 season. The city was ours for the taking. And we have not taken advantage. That doesn't mean I hate EVERY move we make. I loved the Peavy trade and the Dunn signing. And there's a lot of moves we've made that I've despised. Do I go a little overboard at times? Maybe. But so what? What's the big deal? Ranger makes me want to kill small animals at times with his homerism. But I respect his opinion and don't go apes*** when I don't agree with him. This all started when I gave the Sox off-season grade a B minus and I got anally violated. That's what made me mad.

 

Its quite simple. When your posts are mostly over the top, hyper-sensitive, profanity-laced tirades... you are going to get some negative reaction to them. No need to turn it into some giant conspiracy, or that everyone is after you. You post like you do, and you will get these reactions. If you don't like that, then don't post like that. Can't have it both ways.

 

[whtsoxfan]

The Sox should have sured up Matt long ago. Although he's getting up there in age, so IDK. He's a tough situation next year.

 

 

Cooper has said for the record that he does NOT want to have Sale change mid-season from Starter to Bullpen or vice versa.

Sale may be vulnerable to injury because of the mechanics of his delivery. Why increase that chance by making him a starter, ever?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6002831

 

Ohman obviously will not help against Miguel Cabrera ,Magglio Ordonez and switch hitting VMart. Hopefully Crain and Santos and maybe Pena will be enough in terms of RH relievers.