Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in head

[Y2HH]

Because the overwhelming majority of violent rhetoric in the last 2 years has been from the right. And the guy most vilified from your side as "being the same", Olbermann, went ahead and apologized for any comments he had made and recommended that everyone do the same. That was the whole point. Palin and others didn't bother to apologize and saw no reason to.

 

And AGAIN, I am not blaming Palin or anyone on this specific incident but they have to have some self reflection, as Olbermann demonstrated, and say "Hey, that wasn't right what I said/did back then...I'm sorry and won't do it again".

 

In light of recent events and the things you're saying now, why do you still find it necessary to say, "more of the violent rhetoric in the last two years has been from the right", as if that dismisses or makes what little of it came from the left dismissible via comparison? Also, this considers your even right about more of it coming from the right, as there are zero tangible statistics that can prove such a thing...being someone who stands mostly in the middle, I've seen plenty of it from both sides over the years, and one pointing to the other saying, "Oh yeah, well...they do it more than we do!", doesn't make it okay.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

In light of recent events and the things you're saying now, why do you still find it necessary to say, "more of the violent rhetoric in the last two years has been from the right", as if that dismisses or makes what little of it came from the left dismissible via comparison? Also, this considers your even right about more of it coming from the right, as there are zero tangible statistics that can prove such a thing...being someone who stands mostly in the middle, I've seen plenty of it from both sides over the years, and one pointing to the other saying, "Oh yeah, well...they do it more than we do!", doesn't make it okay.

I"ll concede your point about the "overwhelmingly from the right" but Palin specifically had a sniper's target on her website with Gifford's name attached to it. Gifford even commented on it and said that it could lend to violence (paraphrased) in a video in recent months.

 

For a potential Presidential candidate to not even comment on that and say "maybe that was the wrong thing to do" instead of getting defensive and having it scrubbed from the website tells me a lot.

Edited January 11, 2011 by BigSqwert

[southsider2k5]

Because the overwhelming majority of violent rhetoric in the last 2 years has been from the right. And the guy most vilified from your side as "being the same", Olbermann, went ahead and apologized for any comments he had made and recommended that everyone do the same. That was the whole point. Palin and others didn't bother to apologize and saw no reason to.

 

And AGAIN, I am not blaming Palin or anyone on this specific incident but they have to have some self reflection, as Olbermann demonstrated, and say "Hey, that wasn't right what I said/did back then...I'm sorry and won't do it again".

 

And the "over the last two years" thing is a complete cop out of the previous eight years. Why would the party in charge use that kind of rhetoric when it is just an indictment of their performance? You can bet the next time the right is in power, Keith O, and the rest of them will be back to their old tricks.

[southsider2k5]

I"ll concede your point about the "overwhelmingly from the right" but Palin specifically had a sniper's target on her website with Gifford's name attached to it. Gifford even commented on it and said that it could lend to violence (paraphrased) in a video in recent months.

 

For a potential Presidential candidate to not even comment on that and say "maybe that was the wrong thing to do" instead of getting defensive and having it scrubbed from the website tells me a lot.

 

And on the last line edit, why is Kos scrubbing his site then? Because that kind of crap is STILL going on.

[BigSqwert]

I guess I'm the only one around that noticed an obvious uptick in violent rhetoric from political candidates in recent years.

[Y2HH]

I"ll concede your point about the "overwhelmingly from the right" but Palin specifically had a sniper's target on her website with Gifford's name attached to it. Gifford even commented on it and said that it could lend to violence (paraphrased) in a video in recent months.

 

It's not the first time I've seen such sniper targets used in political press over the years, and it's not something that always comes from the right, or Palin in specific. And it doesn't matter...it's a metaphor, a stupid metaphor IMO, but a metaphor nonetheless. Pretending it was or is something more is silly at this point.

 

Next we can point to violent video games, violent music, or violent cartoons that caused it! Not that people haven't done this throughout history, and are still doing it rather futilely. But let's take cartoons in specific...well, wait...modern cartoons aren't very violent, but the ones I grew up watching should have made me (and everyone in my age group) a mass murdering, anvil dropping, meat cleaver chopping, shot gun blasting, TNT detonating. straight razor slashing whack job. I mean, I watched Tom & Jerry everyday...

 

The silliness, it seems, will never end.

[southsider2k5]

It's not the first time I've seen such sniper targets used in political press over the years, and it's not something that always comes from the right, or Palin in specific. And it doesn't matter...it's a metaphor, a stupid metaphor IMO, but a metaphor nonetheless. Pretending it was or is something more is silly at this point.

 

Next we can point to violent video games, violent music, or violent cartoons that caused it! Not that people haven't done this throughout history, and are still doing it rather futilely. But let's take cartoons in specific...well, wait...modern cartoons aren't very violent, but the ones I grew up watching should have made me (and everyone in my age group) a mass murdering, anvil dropping, meat cleaver chopping, shot gun blasting, TNT detonating. straight razor slashing whack job. I mean, I watched Tom & Jerry everyday...

 

The silliness, it seems, will never end.

 

And considering the age and sex of the person involved here, it is much more likely that they had more exposure to this, versus Sarah Palin, as it is way more prevalent in our society.

[BigSqwert]

And considering the age and sex of the person involved here, it is much more likely that they had more exposure to this, versus Sarah Palin, as it is way more prevalent in our society.

Why did he target a congresswoman and not his boss? His priest? His neighbor? Random people on the street?

 

Perhaps hearing and reading violent political rhetoric from both sides of the aisle had affected him over time.

 

Violent symbolism in politics is completely over the top and needs to be repudiated by the politicians/pundits that use that king of rhetoric. Who knows how that type of talk will affect the loose nuts out there in the future.

[StrangeSox]

Linking this attempted political assassination to violent video games or music or TV is much weaker than linking it to recent political rhetoric from her opponents involving cross-hairs, "reloading" and "2nd amendment option".

[Y2HH]

Why did he target a congresswoman and not his boss? His priest? His neighbor? Random people on the street?

 

Perhaps hearing and reading violent political rhetoric from both sides of the aisle had affected him over time.

 

Violent symbolism in politics is completely over the top and needs to be repudiated by the politicians/pundits that use that king of rhetoric. Who knows how that type of talk will affect the loose nuts out there in the future.

 

I maintain that the only reason he targeted her in specific is because of his locale, and he had past meetings with her that didn't go well in his eyes. If he had lived in another state, it probably would have happened there, instead. I don't think it had anything to do with a target map whatsoever.

[Y2HH]

Linking this attempted political assassination to violent video games or music or TV is much weaker than linking it to recent political rhetoric from her opponents involving cross-hairs, "reloading" and "2nd amendment option".

 

You mean in your opinion. Just want to clear that up.

[BigSqwert]

Priceless

 

Glenn Beck: We Must Stand Together Against All Violence (With A Gun In Our Hands)

 

[Y2HH]

Priceless

 

Glenn Beck: We Must Stand Together Against All Violence (With A Gun In Our Hands)

 

 

I already pointed out the silliness of this in the Democrat thread.

 

Being anti-violence and knowing how to use guns are just about galaxies of difference.

[StrangeSox]

You mean in your opinion. Just want to clear that up.

 

Recent violent political rhetoric, some of it specifically targeting Giffords, has a much stronger connection to an attempted political assassination of Giffords than video games. That's not an opinion.

[StrangeSox]

I already pointed out the silliness of this in the Democrat thread.

 

Being anti-violence and knowing how to use guns are just about galaxies of difference.

 

Sure, but it's funny juxtaposition. Beck doing his best Jack Bower interpretation doesn't exactly scream "anti-violence."

[Y2HH]

Recent violent political rhetoric, some of it specifically targeting Giffords, has a much stronger connection to an attempted political assassination of Giffords than video games. That's not an opinion.

 

Yes it is, considering there is NO evidence backing your claim that there is ANY connection between the two whatsoever...thus it's 100% opinion/speculation on your part.

 

So I repeat, just wanted to clear that up for you, since you don't know the difference between fact and opinion, apparently.

[StrangeSox]

I maintain that the only reason he targeted her in specific is because of his locale, and he had past meetings with her that didn't go well in his eyes. If he had lived in another state, it probably would have happened there, instead. I don't think it had anything to do with a target map whatsoever.

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that it did. I've specifically said twice (really quoted something from elsewhere that summed up my thoughts) that this guy is nuts and Giffords was targeted because of location, not because of Palin or any violent right-wing rhetoric. That doesn't mean people can't use this as a reason to step back from said violent rhetoric and point out that it is, at best, irresponsible and in poor taste.

[iamshack]

I think it's just grasping at straws to try and figure out why this guy did what he did.

 

Some people are just crazy.

 

 

 

[Y2HH]

I don't think anyone is claiming that it did. I've specifically said twice (really quoted something from elsewhere that summed up my thoughts) that this guy is nuts and Giffords was targeted because of location, not because of Palin or any violent right-wing rhetoric. That doesn't mean people can't use this as a reason to step back from said violent rhetoric and point out that it is, at best, irresponsible and in poor taste.

 

I never said they shouldn't, and I agree they should step back from it, because it's silly.

 

But you're linking it as the cause when that's not been established by the facts of the case. Blaming violent cartoons at this point is the SAME as blaming Palin's target map...it's a drawn conclusion with ZERO factual basis.

[StrangeSox]

Yes it is, considering there is NO evidence backing your claim that there is ANY connection between the two whatsoever...thus it's 100% opinion/speculation on your part.

 

So I repeat, just wanted to clear that up for you, since you don't know the difference between fact and opinion, apparently.

 

FFS, read the thread. I've not said Palin's stupidity caused any of this or had any influence on him. You're missing the point, and you're ignoring the validity of addressing Palin's map of cross-hairs targeting Gifford as being inappropriate and that Palin and others should back down from violent rhetoric.

[StrangeSox]

I never said they shouldn't, and I agree they should step back from it, because it's silly.

 

But you're linking it as the cause when that's not been established by the facts of the case. Blaming violent cartoons at this point is the SAME as blaming Palin's target map...it's a drawn conclusion with ZERO factual basis.

 

I've assigned blame to Palin or violent right-wing rhetoric?

[NorthSideSox72]

Why is it hard for people to seperate these two things? I see people on the left and people on the right incapable of understanding that BOTH of these statements:

 

--Killer is a nutjob and Palin/Limbaugh/Matthews/Whomever are NOT responsible for this

 

--Recent political rhetoric from highline people is making the atmosphere more conducive to problems like this

 

are TRUE. Not just one or the other, and not as a direct causality.

 

[Y2HH]

FFS, read the thread. I've not said Palin's stupidity caused any of this or had any influence on him. You're missing the point, and you're ignoring the validity of addressing Palin's map of cross-hairs targeting Gifford as being inappropriate and that Palin and others should back down from violent rhetoric.

 

Already agreed it's silly/in poor taste, but it's not the cause, never has been the cause, and people are merely grasping for reasons why...where none exist.

 

I've read the thread. So FFS, thanks for asking on my behalf to be assured I'm properly informed on the silliness going through this thread.

[Y2HH]

I've assigned blame to Palin or violent right-wing rhetoric?

 

You're trying to draw the line without actually drawing it. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

[Reddy]

I want to make this perfectly clear:

 

No. One. Is. Blaming. Palin.

 

Hope that helped.