Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in head

[lostfan]

"The night before the rampage, authorities say, Mr. Loughner, 22, dropped off at a drugstore a roll of 35-millimeter film containing images he had shot of himself posing with a Glock semiautomatic pistol while wearing a red G-string."

 

Am i the only one that read this part of what Balta quoted?

[Balta1701]

"The night before the rampage, authorities say, Mr. Loughner, 22, dropped off at a drugstore a roll of 35-millimeter film containing images he had shot of himself posing with a Glock semiautomatic pistol while wearing a red G-string."

 

Am i the only one that read this part of what Balta quoted?

I kinda thought that was the money quote.

[Balta1701]

Statement from the National Rifle Association officially opposing any ban on high-capacity magazines and the guns-away-from-congress bill.

Tucson Tragedy Prompts Renewed Calls For Gun Control Friday, January 14, 2011 Yet while those of us who defend the Second Amendment were respecting the heartache of the people of Tucson and waiting to learn the full facts of the case, anti-gun activists were renewing their push for more gun control laws. ("In the wake of these kind of incidents, the trick is to move quickly," the Violence Policy Center's Kristen Rand told MSNBC.)

 

Rand and other gun ban advocates were quick to push several schemes.

 

The most widely publicized is the proposal by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) to re-impose the 1994 ban on new manufacture of ammunition magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition, and to criminalize the transfer of existing magazines between law-abiding gun owners. These magazines are standard equipment for self-defense handguns and other firearms owned by tens of millions of Americans. Law-abiding private citizens choose them for many reasons, including the same reason police officers do: to improve their odds in defensive situations.

 

Also, Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) proposed to ban possession of firearms within 1,000 feet of the President, Vice President, Members of Congress or federal judges. Obviously, this proposal would be ignored by anyone who intends to harm a government official. But it would impose extraordinary burdens on honest gun owners, creating potentially hundreds of square miles of roving "gun free" areas throughout the United States.

 

There's no question that the debate over gun control will continue after the Tucson attack. Please rest assured that the NRA will, as always, stand front and center in defense of the rights of gun owners. And, as always, watch your NRA-ILA alerts for the latest news and calls to action on these critical issues.

[iamshack]

I guess I just wasn't all that surprised...

[southsider2k5]

What is wrong with these people. It's not a pep rally.

 

[bmags]

Do you know how closed captioning works? You know what I find telling? Nobody affected by the tragedy or who was AT the ceremony found the crowd inappropriate. But now that I know it's appropriate, I will go to a wake tomorrow and if I see anyone laughing I will go up and tell them this isn't a comedy show! Stop laughing! I have an idea about how you should behave and this isn't fitting it!

[Brian]

If I was the one who developed that film, I honestly would of called the cops to look into that guy. I understand if the employee just thought it was some kinky freak, they have probably developed worse photos, but still.

[bmags]

Well I guess if you say so. At least give the courtesy to explain your position (because if you look historically at what the terms "conservative" and "liberal" mean as well as their ideology combined with the US development of a 2 party system from the Federalists- AntiFederalists through todays Democrat/Republican you will clearly see that the ideology of both Republicans and Democrats has changed drastically to the point where the ideology is so encompassing you can make it fit anything.)

 

That doesn't mean anything. It doesn't matter that classical liberalism is a very restricted government. Both of the parties are participating in a classically liberal government system. Within that, you have an expectation of either party. The Republicans, fairly universally, are foreign policy focused while domestically focused on lowering taxes, and are socially conservative. Democrats are more domestically focused on expanding the social safety net, environmental protections, and are socially liberal. On the margins, you'll find socially conservative democrats and more fiscally conservative democrats, and vice versa republicans. But as close as Scott Brown is ideologically to many democrats, he is very much aligned to his own parties ideas as well. He will vote much more often with a republican president because he agrees with those views. Just as Ben Nelson would as well.

 

Just because are party ideologies have changed in the last 230 years does not mean they are somehow so muddled no one could possibly tell the difference. That's nonsense. Our parties make more sense now than any time in the last 150 years. On most all economic issues of the day you can tell where each party would stand.

[Balta1701]

If I was the one who developed that film, I honestly would of called the cops to look into that guy. I understand if the employee just thought it was some kinky freak, they have probably developed worse photos, but still.

Do people at Walgreens actually look at pictures they're developing any more, or is it all digital and automated? I'd have thought it was the latter. Especially with a digital camera I don't know you even need a person to get it done.

[StrangeSox]

Do you know how closed captioning works? You know what I find telling? Nobody affected by the tragedy or who was AT the ceremony found the crowd inappropriate. But now that I know it's appropriate, I will go to a wake tomorrow and if I see anyone laughing I will go up and tell them this isn't a comedy show! Stop laughing! I have an idea about how you should behave and this isn't fitting it!

 

Deaf people don't have a right to know what he's saying.

[Brian]

Do people at Walgreens actually look at pictures they're developing any more, or is it all digital and automated? I'd have thought it was the latter. Especially with a digital camera I don't know you even need a person to get it done.

 

I would assume they have to see the pics at some point.

 

I didn't think people took film anywhere to get developed anymore.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Brian

[bmags]

Deaf people don't have a right to know what he's saying.

 

[laughter]

[bmags]

I would assume they have to see the pics at some point.

 

I don't know man, remember that story of DCFS being called b/c the parents had developed bathtub photos of their kids (a staple of every wedding slide show). I'd rather that not happen more than what you mentioned. Of the warning signs to heed, this was the least likely to set off alarms.

[lostfan]

The "Fort Dix Six" plot got broken up because a guy at Costco saw a jihad video that the would-be terrorists had made and he said he had a long moral debate with himself whether he should tell the police/FBI about it.

[Balta1701]

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has been taken off a ventilator and is breathing on her own, hospital in Tucson, AZ says.

[SouthsideDon48]

Deaf people don't have a right to know what he's saying.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm?

[lostfan]

Is this supposed to be sarcasm?

um yes. lol

 

edit: i forgot you use hearing aids, but yeah he was being sarcastic.

Edited January 15, 2011 by lostfan

[Soxbadger]

The Republicans, fairly universally, are foreign policy focused while domestically focused on lowering taxes, and are socially conservative. Democrats are more domestically focused on expanding the social safety net, environmental protections, and are socially liberal.

 

Republicans are more foreign policy focused? That is the most broad undefined statement possible. Furthermore I would say that Republicans are just as domestically focused as Democrats. Im not even sure what Republican Core value would be foreign policy related, the usual litmus tests involve 2nd Amendment, abortion and welfare state, which would be considered exclusively domestic.

 

Lowering taxes, that once again is not really a policy. Everyone wants to lower taxes if they could. No one likes higher taxes. I think what you meant here was that Republicans are less in favor of a progressive tax system, but even that isnt entirely down the line true. Many think progressive tax is okay, just that it shouldnt be as bad on the top brackets, other believe in things like a flat tax or getting rid of income tax entirely.

 

Some Republicans are socially conservative, some of them are not because social conservatives often want to use larger govt to enforce social morality. Many republicans are against larger govt and therefore would be more in support of state rights or no govt interference at all.

 

On the contrary, I dont think you can say that Democrats are more domestically focused. In fact I think many Democrats would feel that they are more interested in foreign policy and keeping up America's perception in the eyes of our allies.

 

Social safety net, I think that is a general dividing line, but the underlying point of my statement was not to make a laundry list of things, but more to say both parties flip on state rights versus federal rights depending on whether the issue is favorable to them or not. While this may have occurred in the past, more recently you have had more people caring about what is going on with the other states. Examples of this are trying to change the full faith and credit clause to prevent gay marriage from being recognized in other states.

 

Anyway its just my opinion and I think its no longer become relevant to the topic.

[Balta1701]

Republicans are more foreign policy focused? That is the most broad undefined statement possible. F

I think that statement is the gentle way of saying pro-war.

[lostfan]

Republicans in Congress do not raise taxes. Ever. For any reason. It's something they are literally sworn not to do.

[bmags]

I think that statement is the gentle way of saying pro-war.

 

They are much more... interventionist.

[Soxbadger]

They are perceived as more interventionist, but of the last three presidents, Obama, Bush and Clinton, all of them have intervened at some point, just each party uses different rationales for their intervention.

 

As recently as George Bush the Elder Republican's raised taxes. And once again, the term raising taxes is not objective, it depends on what you consider raising taxes.

 

I assure you most Republicans would be okay with a 1% increase on the lowest tax level in favor of a 10% decrease at the top level.

 

Most of these ideologies are media invented and used to warp peoples idea of the other party, or try and make people like the party when they really shouldnt.

[lostfan]

Bush 41 was the president.

 

You can count on one hand the # of republicans who voted for tax increases in the last 10 or 15 years.

[Balta1701]

Bush 41 was the president.

 

You can count on one hand the # of republicans who voted for tax increases in the last 10 or 15 years.

And the ones who have done so will lose their primary in a year or so.

[Balta1701]

Somehow the fact that this link goes to KGUN...

ABC News Anchor Christiane Amanpour hosted a remarkable gathering of victims, heroes, witnesses and first responders. It was the first time most of them had been together since Jared Lee Loughner opened fire in a Safeway parking lot, killing 6, and wounding or injuring 14 others -- a rampage that happened one week earlier almost to the hour.

 

On the platform with Amanpour were Col. Bill Badger, who helped tackle gunman Jared Lee Loughner; Daniel Hernandez, who ran to help wounded Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords while most people were ducking for cover, Patricia Maisch, who grabbed a magazine away from Loughner; Bill Hileman, whose wife, Susan, is still recovering from gunshot wounds.

 

On the front row was Kenneth Dorushka, who was shot shielding his wife from Loughner's gunfire; and J. Eric Fuller, who was shot in the knee.

 

Among the dignitaries and community leaders present: Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, who is a close personal friend of Giffords and who also sat on the platform with Amanpour; Tucson mayor Bob Walkup; Tucson Congressman Raúl Grijalva; former Tucson Congressman Jim Kolbe; and Father Richard Troutman of St. Odilia's Catholic Church, where the town hall took place.

 

Also on the platform: Pima County Sheriff's Bureau Chief Richard Kastigar, who gave an update on the investigation.

 

Most of the event was devoted to a recounting of what had happened that terrible morning. Amanpour gently led the witnesses and survivors through the events, getting them to tell what they saw and experienced, and to talk about how they are coping.

 

Probably the most emotional moment came when Bill Hileman talked about his wife Susan's dual struggle: physical and emotional. The youngest victim who died in the shooting, 9 year old Christina Taylor Green, was there because she wanted to meet Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. A neighbor took her to the "Congress On Your Corner" event. Susan Hileman was that neighbor. Bill Hileman said that his wife now struggles with the fact that she took a neighbor's child to the event, but was not able to bring her home again.

 

The theme of the event was "An American Conversation Continued" -- the idea being to continue the conversation that a madman's brutal rampage had interrupted. So it was inevitable that the conversation would eventually turn to politics. It did, toward the end, with Amanpour leading a discussion on a very touchy but obvious topic: gun control.

 

That's where the atmosphere turned tense. When Tucson Tea Party founder Trent Humphries rose to suggest that any conversation about gun control should be put off until after the funerals for all the victims, witnesses say Fuller became agitated. Two told KGUN9 News that Fuller finally rose, took a picture of Humphries, and said, "You're dead."

 

When State Rep. Terri Proud (R-Tucson) rose to explain and clarify current and proposed gun legislation in the state, several people groaned or booed her. One of those booing, according to several witnesses, was Fuller. Witnesses sitting near Fuller told KGUN9 News that Fuller was making them feel very uncomfortable.

 

The event wrapped up a short time later. Deputies then escorted Fuller from the room. As he was being led off, Fuller shouted loudly to the room at large. Several witnesses said that what they thought they heard him shout was, "You're all whores!"

 

A Pima County Sheriff's spokesman told KGUN9 News that they charged Fuller with one count of threats and intimidation, and said they plan to charge him with at least one count of disorderly conduct. Humphries told KGUN9 News that he does plan to press those charges.

 

The irony could not be more pointed, or painful. One of the issues discussed in the town hall meeting was the question of why no police or mental health professionals had ever intervened with Jared Lee Loughner, despite his increasingly bizarre behavior that had included disruptive outbursts.

 

ABC will broadcast the town hall meeting, entitled "After the Tragedy: An American Conversation Continued," Sunday. The network has given KGUN9-TV permission to air the broadcast twice. It can be seen at its regular time period of 7:00 AM Sunday (January 16) and also at 3:00 PM the same day.