Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in head

[Reddy]

FWIW, go back and look at the thread after the gunman shot up the army base. I am pretty sure I said almost the exact same thing. There aren't many things I respect less than people who instantly try to spin tragedy into their favor.

remind me, who on this board is doing that right now?

[mr_genius]

Main article of the Sun Times this morning:

 

Some left wing loon shoots Gabrielle Giffords and the Suntimes is mad at FOX news. Classic.

[Wanne]

Very sad day indeed. I can tell you one thing...for as bad as tensions are (still) with the whole SB thing...if this would have turned out to have been a young hispanic male this state would have blown a gasket. Just sayin....

[Reddy]

Some left wing loon shoots Gabrielle Giffords and the Suntimes is mad at FOX news. Classic.

wow.

 

i'm glad you know him well enough to be informed of his political leanings.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Reddy

[mr_genius]

wow.

 

i'm glad you know him well enough to be informed of his political leanings.

 

I don't, but his close friends do. Here's what they are saying.

 

http://twitter.com/caitieparker

 

@johnedelstein we listened to political punk in high school & agreed with their leftist opinions for the most part Anti-Flag was our band.

 

 

@johnedelstein liberal in wanting to change the way the world was run, we both wanted to. He took it to an extreme I never would've.

 

@antderosa he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class about 20 hours ago via Twitter for Phone in reply to antderosa

 

@antderosa He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"

 

Maybe we can ban Rush Limbaugh and whatever music Jared Loughner listened to. That should keep us safe.

Edited January 9, 2011 by mr_genius

[StrangeSox]

Some of his nuttier positions, like gold-backed currency, are typical libertarian stances.

 

Grammar mind control, who the f*** knows what this guy was.

[Reddy]

I don't, but his close friends do. Here's what they are saying.

 

http://twitter.com/caitieparker

 

 

 

Maybe we can ban Rush Limbaugh and whatever music he listened to. That should keep us safe.

lol amazing. i love people like you. who said anything about banning anything? taking a point and pushing it to its extreme. just like mr. limbaugh and the rest of your party does.

[StrangeSox]

From another message board, pretty much my thoughts:

 

"I don't think this had anything to do with Sarah Palin. This guy seems to have unmanaged paranoid schizophrenia and thought the government was brainwashing people and so on, so he went and shot the representative in his home district. I'd really like to see the right wing stop using violent rhetoric, but it's not really clear to me that this had anything to do with political rhetoric on either side. It seems more likely this guy was just f***ing crazy."

[mr_genius]

lol amazing. i love people like you. who said anything about banning anything? taking a point and pushing it to its extreme. just like mr. limbaugh and the rest of your party does.

 

the violent liberal rhetoric of Anti-Flag combined with crazy Ron Paul speeches pushed him over the edge. A potent combination. What do you suggest we do? How can we live in a society that has both things available for the public to hear?

[StrangeSox]

the violent liberal rhetoric of Anti-Flag combined with crazy Ron Paul speeches pushed him over the edge. A potent combination. What do you suggest we do? How can we live in a society that has both things available for the public to hear?

 

Ban Anti-Flag for the good of the country. Seriously.

[Balta1701]

Maybe she wasn't the target, maybe the judge was.

According to police statements posted earlier in this thread, this is not true. The Judge was at Mass in the area and chose to drop by the Congresswoman's event to say hi. The Judge was only there by accident.

[Reddy]

the violent liberal rhetoric of Anti-Flag combined with crazy Ron Paul speeches pushed him over the edge. A potent combination. What do you suggest we do? How can we live in a society that has both things available for the public to hear?

i suggest we let both things remain available without the added violence-inciting rhetoric.

[mr_genius]

i suggest we let both things remain available without the added violence-inciting rhetoric.

 

Oh, no no no. Neither can remain. They are the violence-inciting rhetoric. How can we just let Ron Paul run around talking about the gold standard? It causes violence!

Edited January 9, 2011 by mr_genius

[Texsox]

FWIW, go back and look at the thread after the gunman shot up the army base. I am pretty sure I said almost the exact same thing. There aren't many things I respect less than people who instantly try to spin tragedy into their favor.

 

I'm saying we should stop the violent rhetoric, the cult of violence, if that is "our" favor, then I am frankly shocked you are not amongst "us". People pointed out the most visible examples of this style, then it was the style that is being questioned and condemned here. I believe sane people who appreciate vigorous debate that does not degenerate to violent images are the ones spinning it towards their "favor". The side that benefits is the one wishing to see a reduction in the hate and divisiveness that permeates politics today.

[Balta1701]

This is the 2nd person being sought by police.

[Balta1701]

A 20 year old who University of Arizona student who had been an intern in the Congresswoman's office for 5 days probably saved her life.

Daniel Hernandez had been U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' intern for five days when she was shot Saturday outside Tucson.

 

The junior at the University of Arizona was helping check people in at the "Congress on Your Corner" event when he heard gunfire. He was about 30 feet from the congresswoman. When the shots began, he ran toward them.

 

"I don't even know if the gunfire had stopped," he said Saturday night as he kept a vigil at the University Medical Center cafeteria, gathered near a TV watching tributes and getting updates.

 

When the shots began that morning, he saw many people lying on the ground, including a young girl. Some were bleeding. Hernandez said he moved from person to person checking pulses.

 

"First the neck, then the wrist," he said. One man was already dead. Then he saw Giffords. She had fallen and was lying contorted on the sidewalk. She was bleeding.

 

Using his hand, Hernandez applied pressure to the entry wound on her forehead. He pulled her into his lap, holding her upright against him so she wouldn't choke on her own blood. Giffords was conscious, but quiet.

 

Ron Barber, Giffords' district director, was next to her. Hernandez told a bystander how to apply pressure to one of Barber's wounds.

 

Barber told Hernandez, "Make sure you stay with Gabby. Make sure you help Gabby."

 

Hernandez used his hand to apply pressure until someone from inside Safeway brought him clean smocks from the meat department. He used them to apply pressure on the entrance wound, unaware there was an exit wound. He never let go of her.

 

...

The fact that Hernandez was nearby and able to react quickly probably saved Giffords' life, said state Rep. Matt Heinz, D-Tucson, and a hospital physician. He talked to Hernandez at the hospital after the shooting.

[Balta1701]

I found it fascinating that a Senior Republican Senator was willing to say this, but not on the record.

Some Republicans responded with indignation—why should the alleged act of an apparently deranged young man with a record of barely coherent, and only vaguely ideological rantings get charged to their account?

 

Others acknowledged what they called an unavoidable reality—flamboyant or incendiary anti-government rhetoric of the sort used by many conservative politicians, commentators and tea party activists for the time being will carry a stigma.

 

A senior Republican senator, speaking anonymously in order to freely discuss the tragedy, told POLITICO that the Giffords shooting should be taken as a “cautionary tale” by Republicans.

 

“There is a need for some reflection here - what is too far now?” said the senator. “What was too far when Oklahoma City happened is accepted now. There’s been a desensitizing. These town halls and cable TV and talk radio, everybody’s trying to outdo each other.”

 

The vast majority of tea party activists, this senator said, ought not be impugned.

 

“They’re talking about things most mainstream Americans are talking about, like spending and debt,” the Republican said, before adding that politicians of all stripes need to emphasize in the coming days that “tone matters.”

 

“And the Republican Party in particular needs to reinforce that,” the senator said.

[Texsox]

"Whoever did this; whatever their reason, they are a disgrace to Arizona, this country and the human race, and they deserve and will receive the contempt of all decent people and the strongest punishment of the law," Sen. John McCain of Arizona said in a statement.

 

Amen

[Texsox]

I found it fascinating that a Senior Republican Senator was willing to say this, but not on the record.

 

I think SS's comments kind of allude to this. Anything that is said at this time could be construed to be trying to score political points. I believe the Senator was just being cautious, nothing more sinister than that. In the coming days and weeks, as her condition improves, I believe we will see the no label movement gather serious steam (beyond silly petitions) and leaders on both sides will condemn the flaming rhetoric. I believe some good will come out of this. Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, it just sometimes takes a tragedy like this to wake us up.

[mr_genius]

I found it fascinating that a Senior Republican Senator was willing to say this, but not on the record.

 

Another interesting part of the article, from a veteran Democratic operative:

 

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat

 

[Balta1701]

The Person of Interest in this case has been cleared. It was a cab driver who accompanied the shooter into the Safeway so that he could get exact change.

[Balta1701]

Some LA Times writers have provided additional information about his time at the local community college, the run-ins with the police and the "Debts" that he was talking about in the youtube videos (he paid for college courses but got kicked out of the course, he appears to have concluded that the university could steal his money since it was just paper money and wasn't real).

Jared Lee Loughner attended Pima Community College between 2005 and 2010. From February to September of last year, he was involved in five "classroom and library disruptions" that were handled by campus police, the school's officials said late Saturday.

 

He was suspended in late September after the college police found a video on YouTube in which Loughner claimed the college is "illegal" under the U.S. Constitution, officials said.

 

School officials said police officers delivered a letter explaining the decision to his home, where they spoke with Loughner and his parents. He was told he could return to campus only for an appointment to discuss the disciplinary actions against him in early October. During that meeting with campus officials, Loughner withdrew from the school.

 

Officials said they sent a subsequent letter telling Loughner that if he planned to re-enroll "he must resolve his Code of Conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others."

 

On Nov. 30, a YouTube user who appears to be Loughner posted a video that offered diatribes against the Pima Community College, calls the school "unconstitutional," a "torture facility," and refers to teachers as "con artists." At one point, he castigates police for removing students from educational facilities for talking.

 

"... Removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States," the text says. "This situation is fraud because the police are unconstitutional!"

 

"Every Pima Community College class is always a scam!" he says. "Most people know all the subjects are for mind control and brainwash! The students are unconstitutionally paying for free education! The students are attending a torture facility! You know the teachers are con artists?"

If I've got the timeline right, he uploaded that Youtube video the same day that he bought the gun.

[Balta1701]

The rants about the government controlling his mind through grammar appear similar to the rants of a particular conspiracy theorist.

Jared Lee Loughner’s rants about grammar and mind control track closely to the writings of a conspiracy theorist who believes that is how the government controls the populace, one leading group says – and the man tells POLITICO he agrees with some of Loughner’s statements.

 

The far-right activist, David Wynn Miller, said in a telephone interview that he didn’t know Loughner, but agreed with his statement in a YouTube video that “the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.”

 

“Absolutely I would agree with it,” said Miller, 62, a former tool-and-die maker from Milwaukee who claims 1 billion “students” worldwide.

 

 

...

Potok said Loughner appeared “practically illiterate and quite mentally ill,” but his statements and the books he has cited suggest a “pretty strong anti-government, conspiracy-oriented threat.”

 

“It seems he is getting some of his key ideas from David Wynn Miller,” he said.

[mr_genius]

The rants about the government controlling his mind through grammar appear similar to the rants of a particular conspiracy theorist.

 

well, that explains the incoherent writing style of the shooter.

 

David Wynn Miller has claimed in court to be the king of Hawaii as well as the head of the Unity-States of Our World. Miller also claims his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."

 

Oh, and apparently he is insane (just in case you were wondering).

 

Looks like there is a strong case that this guy was just a follower in a far left loon cult.

Edited January 9, 2011 by mr_genius

[Jenksismyhero]

man, reading this thread from page 1 made me almost as sick as hearing the news of this tragedy. Agree with those who say we should be concerned for the victims and their families. f*** the people who brought politics into this. Dude was insane. Period. Barney the dinosaur could have set him off, doesn't mean anyone else is responsible. I hope he has his public trial and is put to death immediately.