witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 But trading a starting pitcher for relief pitcher whose value is down right now (justified or not) is inherently wrong, no matter cost or team controlled years left. Joba is simply not worth Jackson. If a trade like that is going to even be considered, the Yankees are going to include a hell of a lot more too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) But trading a starting pitcher for relief pitcher whose value is down right now (justified or not) is inherently wrong, no matter cost or team controlled years left. Joba is simply not worth Jackson. If a trade like that is going to even be considered, the Yankees are going to include a hell of a lot more too. Yeah, that's why I edited my post. I'd only consider it if you stuck him in the rotation. They'd have to have a lot of confidence in Coop and his 'magic' ways to make such a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) Yeah, that's why I edited my post. I'd only consider it if you stuck him in the rotation. They'd have to have a lot of confidence in Coop and his 'magic' ways to make such a deal. Joba in the rotation scares me because it seems as though he really only has the two plus pitches in his fastball and slider and when his fastball isn't at 95, it becomes much more hittable. That is what happened in 09 and last year he just began to improve himself. I don't think Joba is anything but a reliever. I think he will be a pretty dominant reliever, perhaps in the form of Brad Lidge, throughout his career, but I think he's a reliever. If the Sox are to trade Jackson for him, they'd need more along with Joba. I'd suggest they ask for Romine, and if they say no to that, then you need to get a pitching prospect along with him too (and I would say that Nova does not qualify for that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 If KW can get them to throw in Nova, Betances, or Brackman with Joba, then fine, make the deal. Otherwise no. I had this idea earlier, but it was predicated on getting one of the three pitchers stated in return as well. No prospect that can start now, no deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Isn't Joba just a right handed Parque? 5 innings then done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 That might be the only thing they have in common. Joba throws it about 15 MPH harder than Parque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) If KW can get them to throw in Nova, Betances, or Brackman with Joba, then fine, make the deal. Otherwise no. I had this idea earlier, but it was predicated on getting one of the three pitchers stated in return as well. No prospect that can start now, no deal. The obvious problem with any deal that requires the Yankees to send us a starter back is that it's a bad deal for the Yankees. They need people who can be starting pitchers, even if they're not good. If they're trading for starting pitchers, they can't afford to give one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 01:42 PM) The obvious problem with any deal that requires the Yankees to send us a starter back is that it's a bad deal for the Yankees. They need people who can be starting pitchers, even if they're not good. If they're trading for starting pitchers, they can't afford to give one up. They can probably afford to give up Brackman. He's still sorta far off, and could definitely end up being a reliever instead of a starter. He is a high upside kind of pitcher too. If the Sox got Joba and Brackman for Jackson, you'd probably have to make that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Jackson & CQ for Joba & Gardner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 01:42 PM) The obvious problem with any deal that requires the Yankees to send us a starter back is that it's a bad deal for the Yankees. They need people who can be starting pitchers, even if they're not good. If they're trading for starting pitchers, they can't afford to give one up. Didn't we have this argument in another thread? However is there no value in an upgrade in talent, as well as a guy who has(to a certain degree) a major league track record? If you're arguing that Jackson is basically an $8.5MM, 27 year old "prospect" then I can somewhat agree with that point of view. Edited January 15, 2011 by Elgin Slim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:46 PM) Didn't we have this argument in another thread? However is there no value in an upgrade in talent, as well as a guy who has(to a certain degree) a major league track record? If you're arguing that Jackson is basically an $8.5MM, 27 year old "prospect" then I can somewhat agree with that point of view. The Yankees would get a slight to moderate upgrade in talent, I think most would agree on that...but it still leaves their biggest hole unfixed and it gives up talent to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Trading one of our starters for a reliever is just a horrendous idea at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 01:58 PM) Trading one of our starters for a reliever is just a horrendous idea at the moment. The bolded is the key. Jake Peavy really f***ed us in the ass trying to be a hero last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Completely off topic, but Buster Olney's blog reminded me of this. How sweet would it be if Nick Swisher never existed, and we had Gio Gonzalez back? We would have a pretty awesome rotation of Peavy-Buehrle-Danks-Jackson-Floyd-Gio. That's 6 very solid starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:27 PM) Completely off topic, but Buster Olney's blog reminded me of this. How sweet would it be if Nick Swisher never existed, and we had Gio Gonzalez back? We would have a pretty awesome rotation of Peavy-Buehrle-Danks-Jackson-Floyd-Gio. That's 6 very solid starters. Not to mention DLS in the 'pen. And maybe we don't even trade for Jackson with Gonzalez in the fold. Meaning we'd have two quality, cheap and team-controlled pitchers for the next 5-6 years in Gonzalez and Hudson with Sale waiting in the wings. At the very least we'd have some serious trade bait. But let's not go there. That first Swisher trade makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:44 PM) Not to mention DLS in the 'pen. And maybe we don't even trade for Jackson with Gonzalez in the fold. Meaning we'd have two quality, cheap and team-controlled pitchers for the next 5-6 years in Gonzalez and Hudson with Sale waiting in the wings. At the very least we'd have some serious trade bait. But let's not go there. That first Swisher trade makes me sick. Really, DLS in the pen? We'd keep him healthy when the A's couldn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) Not to mention DLS in the 'pen. And maybe we don't even trade for Jackson with Gonzalez in the fold. Meaning we'd have two quality, cheap and team-controlled pitchers for the next 5-6 years in Gonzalez and Hudson with Sale waiting in the wings. At the very least we'd have some serious trade bait. But let's not go there. That first Swisher trade makes me sick. That's why I have that Torii Hunter quote at the bottom. I also knew Gio personally. He should've never been traded. Edited January 15, 2011 by JPN366 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:47 PM) Really, DLS in the pen? We'd keep him healthy when the A's couldn't? I know he was hurt in '09. Was he hurt last year? Even if he was a never-ending injury risk he'd still be a nice option to have in your back pocket. His K/9 in 47.1 IP was 13.9. ERA wasn't great but with those K numbers at mostly the AA level you've definitely got a legitimate prospect on your hands. QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:54 PM) That's why I have that Torii Hunter quote at the bottom. I also knew Gio personally. He should've never been traded. I didn't mind the first Gio trade because he helped net us a HOF. But when we got him back I thought for sure he was here to stay. That first Swisher trade will forever be a black mark on Kenny's resume. Edited January 15, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:06 PM) I know he was hurt in '09. Was he hurt last year? He's coming back from the Tommy John surgery. When he got to AA last year, he put up a 6.54 ERA and he's pitched 77 innings combined since 2008. He's a ways away still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) He's coming back from the Tommy John surgery. When he got to AA last year, he put up a 6.54 ERA and he's pitched 77 innings combined since 2008. He's a ways away still. I know the ERA sucked. But you know what a big proponent I've become of saber stats and pitcher peripherals. Seems to me the only thing holding him back are injuries. But I still hate the trade. I'll admit I didn't go nuts when it first happened. But I really hated parting with Gio a second time. Thanks a lot JC for that damn post of yours. I had forgotten about it. Now I'm mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) No way. I don't see the upside to this deal whatsoever. EDIT: I don't know why we're trying to figure out ways to trade starters, they're the backbone of the team and we're not actually THAT deep there. Edited January 15, 2011 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) No way. I don't see the upside to this deal whatsoever. EDIT: I don't know why we're trying to figure out ways to trade starters, they're the backbone of the team and we're not actually THAT deep there. Agreed, starting pitching is what wins the 162 game marathon and we are solid, but lacking some depth so I do not know how we could entertain thoughts of trading a starter. As I've stated before though, if the arb case with Danks continues to move forward without resolution, I think there is a chance he gets traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) I didn't mind the first Gio trade because he helped net us a HOF. But when we got him back I thought for sure he was here to stay. That first Swisher trade will forever be a black mark on Kenny's resume. Thank you Brian Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) That first Swisher trade will forever be a black mark on Kenny's resume. Players have had down years, and the Sox made the playoffs despite him. Trading Swisher to NYY for lol and wtf is worse in my mind even if Swisher didn't bounce back like he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I actually wouldn't mind this trade. Joba might need a change of scenery and like you said, Sale could start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.