Albert Pujols' extension - Cards fail to extend by deadline

[chisoxfan09]

OK I know we all know that ESPN is rather biased and does not show the Sox luv but I thought this Twitter post from Olney was interesting from that standpoint that he mentions the Flubs as potential suitors for Pujols' services if the Cards cannot re-sign him to an extension by his deadline of Spring Training.

 

Link: http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/26374059717562368

 

We are locked in with Dunn/Konerko at 1B but thought it would start and interesting thread debate. Pujols is sure to ask for ARod money of 10/275. Let the debate begin!!

 

** Quick Update ** If they don't get it done would it be even possible to imagine them shopping Pujols at the trade deadline? Just sayin...

Edited January 17, 2011 by chisoxfan09

[southsider2k5]

The Sox wouldn't have a chance in that, and neither would the Cubs.

[Harry Chappas]

The Sox wouldn't have a chance in that, and neither would the Cubs.

 

The cubs will start shedding a good amount of those bad contracts beginning next year. The problem will be the holes that are created by these (Ramirez). It will be interesting to see how Ricketts open the pocket book.

[chisoxfan09]

The Sox wouldn't have a chance in that, and neither would the Cubs.

 

Well checking COT's contract they have Fukodome, Grabow coming off the books and a club option for Carlos Silva for 2 million. The is 28 million coming between the 3 (Fuko - 14 million, Silva - 12 million minus 2 for option buyout, and Grabow 4.8 million). They may have even more money to spend depending on what they do with Big Z this year (Trade Deadline). You never know.

[chisoxfan09]

The cubs will start shedding a good amount of those bad contracts beginning next year. The problem will be the holes that are created by these (Ramirez). It will be interesting to see how Ricketts open the pocket book.

 

Yeah did not see that. COT's has a potential CUBS 2012 payroll of 103 million.

[nitetrain8601]

I don't think he would sign with the Cubs. In the end, the Cardinals always present the best chance of winning if he stays in the NL Central. I think he will stay in the NL until his body can no longer take him playing 1B. Only AL teams I can think of are the usual suspects, Boston and New York and they already both have 1B. And neither would be easy to move as they make huge cash.

 

Also, Pujols hasn't seen anything from the Cubs to make it worthwhile to move there. I know the Cubs want him badly, but Ricketts is not going to have a payroll higher than the Sox, and you need to if you're going to sign Pujols to that large of a deal and still contend.

[SoxFan562004]

They might go hard after him, it's not really clear what Ricketts is doing, although I think the Angels will go insane with the deal if he hits the FA market

[chisoxfan09]

I don't think he would sign with the Cubs. In the end, the Cardinals always present the best chance of winning if he stays in the NL Central. I think he will stay in the NL until his body can no longer take him playing 1B. Only AL teams I can think of are the usual suspects, Boston and New York and they already both have 1B. And neither would be easy to move as they make huge cash.

 

Also, Pujols hasn't seen anything from the Cubs to make it worthwhile to move there. I know the Cubs want him badly, but Ricketts is not going to have a payroll higher than the Sox, and you need to if you're going to sign Pujols to that large of a deal and still contend.

 

I could see this being a valid point regarding Ricketts going forward but they still make a ton of money on WGN, corporate sponsors, and merchandising. And he has already started jacking up prices with tickets. But it would seem understandable that he would not let Hendry spend more money to go after Pujols. The other reason I thought about the Cubs is that it is very close to St. Louis if Pujols still wanted to live there if he left via FA.

[LittleHurt05]

I don't think he would sign with the Cubs. In the end, the Cardinals always present the best chance of winning if he stays in the NL Central. I think he will stay in the NL until his body can no longer take him playing 1B. Only AL teams I can think of are the usual suspects, Boston and New York and they already both have 1B. And neither would be easy to move as they make huge cash.

 

Also, Pujols hasn't seen anything from the Cubs to make it worthwhile to move there. I know the Cubs want him badly, but Ricketts is not going to have a payroll higher than the Sox, and you need to if you're going to sign Pujols to that large of a deal and still contend.

 

What does the Sox payroll have to do with how much money Ricketts will spend?

[nitetrain8601]

I could see this being a valid point regarding Ricketts going forward but they still make a ton of money on WGN, corporate sponsors, and merchandising. And he has already started jacking up prices with tickets. But it would seem understandable that he would not let Hendry spend more money to go after Pujols. The other reason I thought about the Cubs is that it is very close to St. Louis if Pujols still wanted to live there if he left via FA.

 

Well my thing is, Ricketts may go after him, but then he won't have the pieces to surround him with to actually contend for a World Series. Ricketts strikes me as a guy who had enough money to run the team's day to day operation, but doesn't have much more to fix what needs to be fixed including the front office, the team and the stadium which is why he's practically begging for money from the state. The state can't grant the money, even if it wanted to because of how bad the public perception would be. We're running a deficit and we'll continue with that to pay for a baseball stadium. And the state won't take another tax hike to help him out.

 

He just seems like a guy who was a legit Cubs fan, but doesn't have the funds to bring them where they need to be. Cuban would've been much better, but no one really is a fan of his antics.

 

With that said, I don't know what his plan is. Is it to shed salary and build through the draft? Because if it is, they definitely have the wrong GM and scouting department for that. Is it to build through FA and trades? Doesn't look like it.

[nitetrain8601]

What does the Sox payroll have to do with how much money Ricketts will spend?

I was using it as a basis for the argument. Think about the Sox payroll being capped at 110 million in a typical year. For the Sox to add Pujols, they would have to get rid of every big contract because he would take up a 4th of your salary alone. That means their entire rotation, and bullpen is gone. AJ would be gone. Rios would be gone. Teahan is gone. To compete for a World Series, the Sox would have to find a bunch of Alexei Ramirez types, have them contribute right away and then that will lure Pujols.

 

The Cubs don't have that at this point neither. So Pujols will be going to a team that isn't ready to win when he's in his prime. Doesn't make sense.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

How about the Angels? I saw an article somewhere and posted about it in the off-season catch all thread. They missed out on their targets this year, maybe once the cost of Crawford and others got too much for them they decided to hold off and throw the bank at Pujols next year.

[southsider2k5]

How about the Angels? I saw an article somewhere and posted about it in the off-season catch all thread. They missed out on their targets this year, maybe once the cost of Crawford and others got too much for them they decided to hold off and throw the bank at Pujols next year.

 

I could see the Angels being a great fit for him. It will be interesting to see how LA's ownership situation is at that time too.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If the Cards were smart, they would definitely shop Pujols at the deadline. They would probably get more back than they would for the 2 draft picks, and especially if Cincinnati and Milwaukee are ahead of them in the divison.

[WCSox]

If the Cards were smart, they would definitely shop Pujols at the deadline. They would probably get more back than they would for the 2 draft picks, and especially if Cincinnati and Milwaukee are ahead of them in the divison.

 

They also risk alienating him by doing that. Unless Pujols has indicated that he wants to test the FA market, they should try to work something out before the season begins.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

They also risk alienating him by doing that. Unless Pujols has indicated that he wants to test the FA market, they should try to work something out before the season begins.

 

Isn't that what "setting a deadline" does? He gave them a deadline of ST to get a deal done, or else he is testing the free agent market.

[WCSox]

Isn't that what "setting a deadline" does? He gave them a deadline of ST to get a deal done, or else he is testing the free agent market.

 

My mistake, didn't read the Tweet.

 

That said, if they deal Pujols at the deadline, their chances of beating out those other teams is significantly lower. The only way that dealing Pujols at the deadline makes sense for the Cards is if they've already decided to part ways with him. And since he's essentially the second coming of Stan Musial, I'm not sure that they want to go down that road.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

My mistake, didn't read the Tweet.

 

That said, if they deal Pujols at the deadline, their chances of beating out those other teams is significantly lower. The only way that dealing Pujols at the deadline makes sense for the Cards is if they've already decided to part ways with him. And since he's essentially the second coming of Stan Musial, I'm not sure that they want to go down that road.

 

Well my point is that if they trade him at the deadline, they can get a good collection of young players, and then make a bid to sign him in the offseason still. But if they attempt to sign him in the offseason and lose him, they just get the 2 draft picks.

 

Handful of prospects + resign Albert Pujols

or

2 draft picks OR resign Albert Pujols

 

I'd take the first option, but again, this is if they aren't leading the divison/wild card, or are like 3-4 games back. Otherwise, I'd sacrifice a few months of Pujols to protect yourself incase he doesn't resign.

[Leonard Zelig]

Well my point is that if they trade him at the deadline, they can get a good collection of young players, and then make a bid to sign him in the offseason still. But if they attempt to sign him in the offseason and lose him, they just get the 2 draft picks.

 

Handful of prospects + resign Albert Pujols

or

2 draft picks OR resign Albert Pujols

 

I'd take the first option, but again, this is if they aren't leading the divison/wild card, or are like 3-4 games back. Otherwise, I'd sacrifice a few months of Pujols to protect yourself incase he doesn't resign.

 

Sounds good, but I don't think its very likely that St. Louis signs him if he hits free agency.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Sounds good, but I don't think its very likely that St. Louis signs him if he hits free agency.

 

Then they walk away with a handful of prospects and save $6.5M (since they won't pay him once he leaves) + a couple more million they would have spent on those 2 draft picks. Seems like a good plan to me. So you could be talking about a handful of prospects, plus close to $9M saved.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Then they walk away with a handful of prospects and save $6.5M (since they won't pay him once he leaves) + a couple more million they would have spent on those 2 draft picks. Seems like a good plan to me. So you could be talking about a handful of prospects, plus close to $9M saved.

 

Do you really think there's a team out there that's going to gut their farm for a couple months of Pujols? In other words, would you trade Sale, Viciedo, maybe, you know what, nevermind. I can't even use the White Sox in this hypothetical because the farm is so bad. I can't even come up with a fantasy trade that could net us Pujols.

[witesoxfan]

Do you really think there's a team out there that's going to gut their farm for a couple months of Pujols? In other words, would you trade Sale, Viciedo, maybe, you know what, nevermind. I can't even use the White Sox in this hypothetical because the farm is so bad. I can't even come up with a fantasy trade that could net us Pujols.

 

Well even just using the White Sox as a hypothetical, even if the package wouldn't be good enough, is trading Beckham, Morel, Viciedo, Sale, Santos, and Thompson worth 2 months of Pujols?

 

I don't think it'd even be possible for the Cards to trade him at the deadline simply because there is no way in hell they'd receive proper value for him. The only teams that I can think of that really have the depth in their farm systems to make such a move - we are talking like 2 top 20 prospects and 2 more top 50 - will be long out of contention and/or* I don't see any way possible that he'd sign a contract extension with them.

 

*the "or" included because Tampa Bay would almost certainly have enough and shouldn't be long out of contention, but there's no way they'd be able to pony up the resources necessary to resign him, though that goes without saying

Edited January 18, 2011 by witesoxfan

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well even just using the White Sox as a hypothetical, even if the package wouldn't be good enough, is trading Beckham, Morel, Viciedo, Sale, Santos, and Thompson worth 2 months of Pujols?

 

I don't think it'd even be possible for the Cards to trade him at the deadline simply because there is no way in hell they'd receive proper value for him. The only teams that I can think of that really have the depth in their farm systems to make such a move - we are talking like 2 top 20 prospects and 2 more top 50 - will be long out of contention and/or* I don't see any way possible that he'd sign a contract extension with them.

 

*the "or" included because Tampa Bay would almost certainly have enough and shouldn't be long out of contention, but there's no way they'd be able to pony up the resources necessary to resign him, though that goes without saying

 

The Braves are a team that come to mind. Outside of the Royals, they might have more high-ceiling talent than any system out there. They've certainly got the pitching. But again, no team [smart team anyway] is going to butt-f*** themselves for a couple months of Pujols, even assuming the Cards did try to trade him. And it's very unlikely that the Cards would be anywhere near out of the race to consider it even for that reason.

[chisoxfan09]

I was thinking the other otentially huge factor (Would like to get Ptatc's opinion on it) is that Pujols has had minor elbow surgery once or twice now. Article says it is a minor procedure:

 

Cardinals team physician Dr. George Paletta performed what he described at the time as a "relatively minor surgical procedure" to relocate the ulnar nerve in Pujols' elbow.

 

Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3844938

 

PTATC, what do you think the long term chances are for Pujols to re-injure his elbow and require more major surgery? This must weigh heavily on the minds of the Cardinals as well. And as ARod is starting to show (PK should for that matter as well) you start to decline at the age of 34-40.

[Balta1701]

I could see the Angels being a great fit for him. It will be interesting to see how LA's ownership situation is at that time too.

The question will be what Kendry Morales does when he comes back. I doubt Albert's going to be thinking "I want to be a DH" when he hits FA, and that might be the best place for him in LAA since they'd want to keep him healthy.