Albert Pujols' extension - Cards fail to extend by deadline

[witesoxfan]

You won't want to pay Pujols the last $100M of that deal when he's posting a .790 OPS and bad defense at 1B.

 

.790 is a bit low. Jim Thome was putting up .850-.900 and he's not nearly the hitter Pujols is. Given, he's been DHing the last 5 years, but Pujols is also a better athlete than Thome as well and has proven time and time again that he can play through pain.

[Rowand44]

BTW, Albert's just going to have a monster year(even by his standards), he looks to be in better shape than usual and now that he's playing for a contract, watch out.

[Jordan4life_2007]

BTW, Albert's just going to have a monster year(even by his standards), he looks to be in better shape than usual and now that he's playing for a contract, watch out.

 

That's like saying he's been holding back. Lol. If he were any better he'd be '04 Bonds.

[WCSox]

.790 is a bit low. Jim Thome was putting up .850-.900 and he's not nearly the hitter Pujols is. Given, he's been DHing the last 5 years, but Pujols is also a better athlete than Thome as well and has proven time and time again that he can play through pain.

 

Thome would probably spend a third of the season on the DL if he still played in the NL. There aren't very many players who can hit at an elite level in their late 30's. And while Pujols looks like he may be one of them, it's going to cost a franchise $100M to find out.

 

I can see both sides of the argument here and wouldn't think that the Cardinals were insane for giving him the 10/300 deal that he reportedly wants. But outside of the health/diminishing skills potential towards the end of that deal, I'd also want better marketability for a $300M player. Pujols isn't Barry Bonds or anything, but he doesn't have the national appeal that Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, or Peyton Manning does. I'd bet that factors into the Cards' decision-making as well.

 

[Rowand44]

That's like saying he's been holding back. Lol. If he were any better he'd be '04 Bonds.

Ha, I know it sounds absurd. Obviously he's not holding back, but he really does look to be in the best shape of his career. So ya, I guess I am talking about some sort of historic season here.

[Balta1701]

Thome would probably spend a third of the season on the DL if he still played in the NL. There aren't very many players who can hit at an elite level in their late 30's. And while Pujols looks like he may be one of them, it's going to cost a franchise $100M to find out.

 

I can see both sides of the argument here and wouldn't think that the Cardinals were insane for giving him the 10/300 deal that he reportedly wants. But outside of the health/diminishing skills potential towards the end of that deal, I'd also want better marketability for a $300M player. Pujols isn't Barry Bonds or anything, but he doesn't have the national appeal that Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, or Peyton Manning does. I'd bet that factors into the Cards' decision-making as well.

I don't know if it's been noted yet...but if Albert were to average 35 HR a year over that 10 year deal, he'd be passing tetrahydrogestrinone on the all time list. That's some marketing dollars.

[chisoxfan09]

I don't know if it's been noted yet...but if Albert were to average 25 HR a year over that 10 year deal, he'd be passing tetrahydrogestrinone on the all time list. That's some marketing dollars.

 

If he hit 45 bombs this year I think he would need about 31-32 per year to beat Bonds' record over his final 10 yesrs. I am thinking he could average closer to 50 or better at Wrigley if the Cubs got ever so lucky and signed him.

[WCSox]

I don't know if it's been noted yet...but if Albert were to average 25 HR a year over that 10 year deal, he'd be passing tetrahydrogestrinone on the all time list. That's some marketing dollars.

 

A lot can happen in 10 years. Look at where Griffey and Frank were 10 years ago.

 

[witesoxfan]

A lot can happen in 10 years. Look at where Griffey and Frank were 10 years ago.

 

Griffey played a much more demanding defensive position, and Frank Thomas weighed 275 pounds. Albert's more likely to stay healthy than those two. They are valid examples of players getting injured as they get older though. Quite frankly, any examples you bring up will be valid, because over the course of a 10 year contract, a lot is bound to happen.

 

In my mind, the best example to use is probably ARod. You move around a bit more at 3B, but not nearly as much as you would in CF, and he has a similar body. He had his worst offensive year since 1997 this past year, but a lot of the league was down offensively. It will be interesting to see how he bounces back. It could honestly be an aberration, or a sign of things to come. It could also influence the Cardinals decision, or it may not.

[WCSox]

Griffey played a much more demanding defensive position

 

Quite a few people play CF and LF in their 30s without spending half of a decade on the DL.

 

In my mind, the best example to use is probably ARod. You move around a bit more at 3B, but not nearly as much as you would in CF

 

A-Rod's a poor example. They're of similar height/weight, but A-Rod is faster/more athletic than Pujols and his body has benefitted from moderate steroid use over the years.

 

By the time that Pujols hits his late 30's, he's not only going to be a mediocre defensive 1B, but playing 150+ games a year will likely become a health liability. I don't know of many 38- or 39-year-olds who can play the field every day, stay healthy, and hit at an above-average level without illegal pharmaceutical enhancement. Pujols is worth a lot more in the AL, where he can eventually DH. If the Cards give him the money that he wants, they're probably going to have to deal him in the past few years of his deal. And good luck getting a team to pick up a $90M tab on a 39-year-old 1B.

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Ha, I know it sounds absurd. Obviously he's not holding back, but he really does look to be in the best shape of his career. So ya, I guess I am talking about some sort of historic season here.

 

Why do you say that?

[Balta1701]

One offer to Albert Pujols before negotiations were halted -- perhaps even the main offer -- was for nine years and more than $200 million, according to people familiar with the talks.

 

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak and owner Bill DeWitt said they made one main offer with multiple variations. IIndications are now that the main offer was for nine years, but variations of that offer were made, believed to be of different lengths.

Link

[WCSox]

If it wasn't for A LOT more than $200M, it was a low-ball offer. If years are the issue, I would've offered him 8/250.

 

[Balta1701]

If it wasn't for A LOT more than $200M, it was a low-ball offer. If years are the issue, I would've offered him 8/250.

I think even 2k5 is getting on board with the idea that the Cardinals were low-balling him.

[T R U]

I think even 2k5 is getting on board with the idea that the Cardinals were low-balling him.

 

Of course they were, they cant afford to pay Pujols 1/3 of their entire payroll.. I don't think there is anyway hes a Cardinal next season, unless of course he just decides to take less

[Balta1701]

Of course they were, they cant afford to pay Pujols 1/3 of their entire payroll.

Then that contract they gave to Holliday was the height of idiocy.

[SoxFan562004]

Then that contract they gave to Holliday was the height of idiocy.

this is pure speculation, but I have a feeling Pujols and his people made it clear to the Cards that if they wanted a shot at keeping him they had to keep Holliday or get another big bat in. FWIW he said he would be willing to defer some of his money to try and keep Albert...

 

http://stlouis.sbnation.com/st-louis-cardi...nsion-cardinals

[Leonard Zelig]

this is pure speculation, but I have a feeling Pujols and his people made it clear to the Cards that if they wanted a shot at keeping him they had to keep Holliday or get another big bat in. FWIW he said he would be willing to defer some of his money to try and keep Albert...

 

http://stlouis.sbnation.com/st-louis-cardi...nsion-cardinals

 

That's what I said earlier in the thread, if Pujols would have said last year that he wanted to be the highest paid player, St. Louis may have planned for that. Instead he said he wanted good players around him and that's what they did.

[Balta1701]

That's what I said earlier in the thread, if Pujols would have said last year that he wanted to be the highest paid player, St. Louis may have planned for that. Instead he said he wanted good players around him and that's what they did.

But they absolutely had to know what his contract demands were (Hell, they could have sat down and tried to extend him at the same time as trying to sign Holliday).

[Milkman delivers]

But they absolutely had to know what his contract demands were (Hell, they could have sat down and tried to extend him at the same time as trying to sign Holliday).

 

But Pujols has to know that he can't have it both ways. If he told them to get a big bat in order to keep him, and understanding their payroll, he'd know that it would be damn near impossible to set that team up financially. If indeed he told the Cardinals that they need a big bat like Holliday's in order for him to be interested in staying, he's a jagoff to then go out and ask for $300 million.

[Balta1701]

But Pujols has to know that he can't have it both ways. If he told them to get a big bat in order to keep him, and understanding their payroll, he'd know that it would be damn near impossible to set that team up financially. If indeed he told the Cardinals that they need a big bat like Holliday's in order for him to be interested in staying, he's a jagoff to then go out and ask for $300 million.

Then the Cardinals should have traded him a year ago and made it clear exactly what his public demands were.

 

Albert Pujols has every right to demand things both ways. It hurts the Cardinals a lot more than him if he walks.

[Leonard Zelig]

From Feb. '09:

 

"It's not about the money all the time," the first baseman said Sunday in Jupiter, Fla. "It's about being in a place to win and being in a position to win.

 

"If the Cardinals are willing to do that and put a team (on the field) every year like they have, I'm going to try to work everything out to stay in this town. But if they're not bringing championship-caliber play every year, then it's time for me to go somewhere else that I can win."

 

 

It doesn't sound like he's trying to work anything out to stay. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to do whatever he wants, but it sure seems like he has changed his position some time in the past year.

[ptatc]

Then the Cardinals should have traded him a year ago and made it clear exactly what his public demands were.

 

Albert Pujols has every right to demand things both ways. It hurts the Cardinals a lot more than him if he walks.

 

It will only hurt the Cardinals in the short term. It's a very loyal fan base and they know baseball. If someone else it's crazy enough to give him 10 years then most fans will understand in a couple of years.

[Balta1701]

It will only hurt the Cardinals in the short term. It's a very loyal fan base and they know baseball. If someone else it's crazy enough to give him 10 years then most fans will understand in a couple of years.

Problem they really have is...they lose Pujols, they're in a position where they have little choice but a total rebuild. It'll be several years before they can legitimately be a competitor in that division. They know it too.

[Milkman delivers]

Then the Cardinals should have traded him a year ago and made it clear exactly what his public demands were.

 

Albert Pujols has every right to demand things both ways. It hurts the Cardinals a lot more than him if he walks.

 

From Feb. '09:

 

"It's not about the money all the time," the first baseman said Sunday in Jupiter, Fla. "It's about being in a place to win and being in a position to win.

 

"If the Cardinals are willing to do that and put a team (on the field) every year like they have, I'm going to try to work everything out to stay in this town. But if they're not bringing championship-caliber play every year, then it's time for me to go somewhere else that I can win."

 

 

It doesn't sound like he's trying to work anything out to stay. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to do whatever he wants, but it sure seems like he has changed his position some time in the past year.

 

Yes.