Albert Pujols' extension - Cards fail to extend by deadline

[southsider2k5]

He was disliked though because his massive deal also wasn't translating into wins. There's a lot more to the equation than the way you're presenting it.

 

He was being called Pay-Rod and having fake money thrown at him in his first year in Texas. There was a lot of animosity long before then.

[Balta1701]

He was being called Pay-Rod and having fake money thrown at him in his first year in Texas. There was a lot of animosity long before then.

I think people are a lot more used to it now.

[dpd9189]

He was being called Pay-Rod and having fake money thrown at him in his first year in Texas. There was a lot of animosity long before then.

 

I never understood that. If people want to dislike A-Rod because he used roids or is a straight up tool then that's fine, but the Rangers were the ones who offered that deal and any player would've been nuts not to sign it. I always thought A-Rod was liked until he went to the Yankees. Regardless though Tom Hicks was the guy who offered him that deal, A-Rod didn't put a gun to Hicks' head and make him offer it. Kind of like why I tell Cubs fans they can't get mad a Soriano for signing his deal.

[dpd9189]

 

This is from Ken Rosenthal's twitter.

 

Source: #Cardinals' offer would have given Pujols about 10th-highest salary in game. Likely translates to $19M-$21M per. #MLB

 

If this is true and that's the highest they'll offer him then he's a goner next winter.

[southsider2k5]

This is from Ken Rosenthal's twitter.

 

Source: #Cardinals' offer would have given Pujols about 10th-highest salary in game. Likely translates to $19M-$21M per. #MLB

 

If this is true and that's the highest they'll offer him then he's a goner next winter.

 

That is a lot less than I would have expected them to offer. If that was there thinking, they should have traded him already.

[SoxFan562004]

If he leaves Stl, I think it's the Cubs or LAA that get him. Cubs lose 50 plus mil after this season and Zambrano/Dempster contracts in 2012. They have more than enough money to give Pujols what he wants. Remember even though they cut some money this year, they still carry a heavy payroll. LAA would make sense because Moreno would spend the money and it would help the Angels in the LA market where they always play 2nd fiddle to the Dodgers. Plus Pujols stands to make more money in endorsements in major markets like Chicago and LA then a small-mid market like Stl.

With the Cubs though they have to replace people. Soriano has 4 more years, so if they sign Albert for 28m a year you are at 46m for 2 players, one of which is not going to give you a whole bunch for the 1st 3 years of Albert's deal. OK, they lose Z and Dempster, these are players who have to be replaced and while the Cubs prospects are considered good, I've seen nowhere saying they have some uber system that can just put out young low salary guys to go with Pujols and compete for a WS. If Garza continues to be good, he's only going to go up and up in salary. Then even if Cashner (sp?) pans out, you still need at least 2 other really good starters, who aren't free. Then Pujols has said the last few years he wants protection in the line-up, it's why the Cards bent over to trade and re-up Holliday. Right now the Cubs have a bunch of prospects that could potentially be good players, but they're prospects, and 100% of them don't pan out. Say A-Ram has a resurgent year, well, he's a FA or a 16m team option, either way he's not going to play there for free or neither is someone who is going to replace him.

 

The Cubs have an expensive stadium to maintain or upgrade to get more revenue and the owners are underwater with a huge debt service due on the team every year, signing Pujols to that type of contract for the Cubs as things stand now could easily cripple that team for the next decade.

 

 

 

My short list for 8/200 would be

 

Cubs

Yanks

Boston

LAA

LAD

STL

TEX

HOU

ATL

TOR

DET

SEA

 

 

Probably more. I think some teams have been waiting for him to come available, he's one of the best hitters to ever play.

he won't be strictly rewarded on that criteria for this deal, especially since he's looking to go longer than 5-6 years on it. No doubt he's put up insane numbers, but he'll be 32 opening day of 2012. There's testing now and if anything it will get stricter and the media is constantly on the look-out for circumstantial evidence to tie superstars to PEDs not tested for. So, if he's never touched one drop of PED in his entire life and doesn't plan to, he will age like players did in prior to the late 90s. Like I said above, for any team, a deal in the neighborhood he's seeking has the real potential to cripple a franchise for a decade unless it's NYY. Even Bos and LAA would have to be extremely careful in how they allocate funds for it.

Edited February 16, 2011 by SoxFan562004

[SoxFan562004]

That is a lot less than I would have expected them to offer. If that was there thinking, they should have traded him already.

at least listen to offers, and if that's what they are offering he will easily blow that out of the water in the off-season.

 

Although, I can see that type of offer from the Cards perspective, as long as they feel that their relationship is strong enough with him and that type of offer won't "insult" him. Right now they're purely bidding against themselves. Let's say they're convinced they can go 10/280 or 8/230, something in that neighborhood, and with all things being equal he'll re-up with them instead of leaving. Why bid against yourself which is all they can do with the current situation. There will obviously be interest in him in FA, but maybe that's the ceiling of it and they want to make sure they don't overpay. Obviously you take the gamble of LAA blowing him out of the water or LAD and NYM ownership stuff is quickly cleared up and you have multiple big time rivals in it, but this whole thing is a gamble for the Cards, it's not like giving him 8/240 or 10/300 today is the easy way out or low risk.

[witesoxfan]

If the latest information is even close to true, and the Cards were only offering $19-21 million, Pujols should break off negotiations. That is an absolute bush league offer, relatively speaking of course. You are talking about one of the very best hitters we've ever seen, he should be, at the very least, among the top 2-3 highest paid players in the game.

 

 

[dpd9189]

With the Cubs though they have to replace people. Soriano has 4 more years, so if they sign Albert for 28m a year you are at 46m for 2 players, one of which is not going to give you a whole bunch for the 1st 3 years of Albert's deal. OK, they lose Z and Dempster, these are players who have to be replaced and while the Cubs prospects are considered good, I've seen nowhere saying they have some uber system that can just put out young low salary guys to go with Pujols and compete for a WS. If Garza continues to be good, he's only going to go up and up in salary. Then even if Cashner (sp?) pans out, you still need at least 2 other really good starters, who aren't free. Then Pujols has said the last few years he wants protection in the line-up, it's why the Cards bent over to trade and re-up Holliday. Right now the Cubs have a bunch of prospects that could potentially be good players, but they're prospects, and 100% of them don't pan out. Say A-Ram has a resurgent year, well, he's a FA or a 16m team option, either way he's not going to play there for free or neither is someone who is going to replace him.

 

The Cubs have an expensive stadium to maintain or upgrade to get more revenue and the owners are underwater with a huge debt service due on the team every year, signing Pujols to that type of contract for the Cubs as things stand now could easily cripple that team for the next decade.

 

 

 

 

he won't be strictly rewarded on that criteria for this deal, especially since he's looking to go longer than 5-6 years on it. No doubt he's put up insane numbers, but he'll be 32 opening day of 2012. There's testing now and if anything it will get stricter and the media is constantly on the look-out for circumstantial evidence to tie superstars to PEDs not tested for. So, if he's never touched one drop of PED in his entire life and doesn't plan to, he will age like players did in prior to the late 90s. Like I said above, for any team, a deal in the neighborhood he's seeking has the real potential to cripple a franchise for a decade unless it's NYY. Even Bos and LAA would have to be extremely careful in how they allocate funds for it.

 

I'm not going to play Cubs gm all day but Castro, Soto and Colvin are all young so I assume they have them under control for a while. Not sure if that Vitters kid is ready but they'll have to replace A-Ram. Regardless the Cubs might be in a good spot because if Stl does pony up and give Pujols $30 mil a year, that will cripple Stl because they'd have almost $50 mil to two players for a team who is around $95 mil for their team budget. If Pujols signs with the Cubs, he greatly improves their team and if he signs in the AL or elsewhere he leaves the division. Cards are in a bad spot unless Pujols accepts a $200 mil deal or less.

[Harry Chappas]

Any team that gives him 10yr/$30M will regret it after the first three years of the deal. There are questions of age, heath and PED's here. He would have to go to an AL team to DH at the end of the deal.

[klaus kinski]

 

"Pay-juols" ?

[Leonard Zelig]

Last year Pujols was saying that the most important thing to him was playing for a contending team. I think the Cardinals basically bid against themselves to keep Holliday to show him they were serious about contending. Now it seems he wants to be the highest paid player and they may not be able to afford him.

[SoxFan562004]

I'm not going to play Cubs gm all day but Castro, Soto and Colvin are all young so I assume they have them under control for a while. Not sure if that Vitters kid is ready but they'll have to replace A-Ram. Regardless the Cubs might be in a good spot because if Stl does pony up and give Pujols $30 mil a year, that will cripple Stl because they'd have almost $50 mil to two players for a team who is around $95 mil for their team budget. If Pujols signs with the Cubs, he greatly improves their team and if he signs in the AL or elsewhere he leaves the division. Cards are in a bad spot unless Pujols accepts a $200 mil deal or less.

nobodies asking you to.... Anyway, Castro, Soto and Colvin and Vitters... Outside of Soto, all potential at this point, if Pujols wants to win I don't see him going to a team that's relying on prospects... Say what you want about A-Ram, he can be injury prone, but to expect Vitters to just replace what the Cubs were getting out of A-Ram in his prime is lofty expectations, that guy flat out raked.

 

also, Rovell was on with B & B, short article and a link to interview follows. Cubs sold 92% of all their tickets last year, granted no shows cost them cash flow, but as Wrigley stand right now they are near the ceiling with the revenues they can get out of it...

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/02/16/wha...th-to-the-cubs/

[Jordan4life_2007]

If the latest information is even close to true, and the Cards were only offering $19-21 million, Pujols should break off negotiations. That is an absolute bush league offer, relatively speaking of course. You are talking about one of the very best hitters we've ever seen, he should be, at the very least, among the top 2-3 highest paid players in the game.

 

Are you saying there's something wrong with Albert Pujols making a couple million more bucks than superstud Jason Bay?

[Balta1701]

The Cardinals had to know there was no chance that Albert would sign that offer. People are asking questions like “Is Albert Pujols Worth $40 Million Per Season?” and “Is Albert Pujols Worth 300 Million?", not whether he would sign for $20 million per year. Looking at some hard numbers, Gas House Graphs, an excellent Cardinals blog, comes up with a 10-year value for Albert at $260 million with some help from saberist wonder Tom Tango.

 

Using Rosenthal's numbers, we get a contract offer from the Cardinals of eight years and $168 million, nine years and $189 million, or 10 years and $210 million. By the Gas House Graphs numbers, the Cardinals are underselling Pujols by some $50 million even if they actually went out to 10 years, a length which the Cardinals seemed reluctant to offer.

 

It's certainly understandable that the Cardinals haven't come out and offered Pujols the fabled $300 million contract or some other such big deal. Although Pujols’ on-field value is currently untouched by any other player, that doesn't mean the Cardinals should simply empty the coffers in front of Pujols. After all, this is a business.

 

However, it's obvious that the team is in better shape with Albert on the team. The only way that they remain contenders, at least in the short-term, is with Albert on the team. The newly-released PECOTA projections have Albert worth 7.7 WARP -- wins above replacement player. The next best position player? Ryan Braun, at 4.9 WARP. Pujols so outclasses the rest of his position player colleagues that he is nearly three full wins over No. 2.

 

The Cardinals had a huge asset in their exclusivity to negotiate with Pujols. They could have been able to reach a deal with the superstar for under his market value, and any contract with Pujols will almost certainly offer huge surpluses in the first few years of the deal. The offer that they made, however, had no chance of ever being accepted, and I find it hard to believe that Cardinals management didn't know that fact themselves.

Link

[LittleHurt05]

I'd be really surprised if the Cards did only offer him around $20 mil a year, its kind of a low blow, almost better to not offer anything. Especially when Holliday makes $17 million.

 

If that deal was for a full 10 years, it might make a little more sense, as A-Rod is the only player to ever be given over $200 million in guaranteed money (twice).

 

I have been texting Cardinals fan friends today, pretty entertaining to get some reactions from them.

[Rowand44]

If the latest information is even close to true, and the Cards were only offering $19-21 million, Pujols should break off negotiations. That is an absolute bush league offer, relatively speaking of course. You are talking about one of the very best hitters we've ever seen, he should be, at the very least, among the top 2-3 highest paid players in the game.

I agree. I completely understand the Cards not wanting to go to 10 and 300 and it would make sense to me if they feel the best way for their franchise to go is to not tie up 20-25 percent of their payroll in Albert, however, making him that kind of offer(if true) is just insulting.

[chisoxfan09]

I agree. I completely understand the Cards not wanting to go to 10 and 300 and it would make sense to me if they feel the best way for their franchise to go is to not tie up 20-25 percent of their payroll in Albert, however, making him that kind of offer(if true) is just insulting.

 

For the Cubs to offer him 10/20 it would mean about 25% or less of their payroll if they continue to hover at 120-130 million. I don't know how this will pan out but I am not sure Ricketts will go after Pujols. It seems he is trying to cut payroll and develop the farm, where they have been making some progress.

[T R U]

It would be incredibly foolish for the Cards to give him anything close to 10 years, forget the money.. they would be as close to crippled as you can be before half that contract is over..

 

I know its gonna suck, but they need to just let him walk if he wont budge.. if they give in, they are going to be paying for it literally and figuratively for a while..

[southsider2k5]

I'd be really surprised if the Cards did only offer him around $20 mil a year, its kind of a low blow, almost better to not offer anything. Especially when Holliday makes $17 million.

 

If that deal was for a full 10 years, it might make a little more sense, as A-Rod is the only player to ever be given over $200 million in guaranteed money (twice).

 

I have been texting Cardinals fan friends today, pretty entertaining to get some reactions from them.

 

If they really made him an offer like that, they should have traded him a long time ago instead of insulting him with an offer like that.

[SoxFan562004]

For the Cubs to offer him 10/20 it would mean about 25% or less of their payroll if they continue to hover at 120-130 million. I don't know how this will pan out but I am not sure Ricketts will go after Pujols. It seems he is trying to cut payroll and develop the farm, where they have been making some progress.

Garza trade is exactly the opposite of that. It wasn't any of their name guys, but there were a few guys in their top 10.

[Balta1701]

Here's ESPN Boston floating Albert as Ortiz's replacement next year.

[WCSox]

I think the Cardinals basically bid against themselves to keep Holliday to show him they were serious about contending. Now it seems he wants to be the highest paid player and they may not be able to afford him.

 

Or they chose Holliday for $120M over Pujols for $300M. Can't say that I blame them for not wanting to give a 31-year-old a 10-year deal at $30M/year. Unless Pujols starts taking some of Barry's flaxseed oil, he's not going to be worth much over the last 3-4 years of that deal. Especially in the NL.

Edited February 17, 2011 by WCSox

[Balta1701]

Or they chose Holliday for $120M over Pujols for $300M. Can't say that I blame them for not wanting to give a 31-year-old a 10-year deal at $30M/year. Unless Pujols starts taking some of Barry's flaxseed oil, he's not going to be worth much over the last 3-4 years of that deal.

I'd rather pay Pujols the $300 than Holliday the $120.

[WCSox]

I'd rather pay Pujols the $300 than Holliday the $120.

 

You won't want to pay Pujols the last $100M of that deal when he's posting a .790 OPS and bad defense at 1B.

Edited February 17, 2011 by WCSox