Iwritecode Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) It is sure easy for people to say the Sox need to spend to get them to go to games... I don’t think it matters much if they spend 50 million or 150 million. If they win, the fans are more likely to show up. Just glancing at last years attendance it looks like for the first 2 months of the season they were averaging around 20,000 during the week and between 25,000 and 30,000 on weekends. The problem is they went 2-4 in their first homestand and them came back home after their first road trip in last place at 4-9. Compare that to Monday July 26 when they came home in first place and had a nearly sold-out crowd. The attendance peaked in 2006 and has been on a steady decrease ever since. Even with the division title in 2008 mostly because they haven’t had enough sustained success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:36 AM) I don't think it matters much if they spend 50 million or 150 million. If they win, the fans are more likely to show up. Just glancing at last years attendance it looks like for the first 2 months of the season they were averaging around 20,000 during the week and between 25,000 and 30,000 on weekends. The problem is they went 2-4 in their first homestand and them came back home after their first road trip in last place at 4-9. Compare that to Monday July 26 when they came home in first place and had a nearly sold-out crowd. The attendance peaked in 2006 and has been on a steady decrease ever since. Even with the division title in 2008 mostly because they haven't had enough sustained success. i dont think its all just about success. its kind of..wrong , i guess, that the sox say how more fans need to go or go when the team wins but its not exactly the cheapest thing to go to. i went to 6 games last year but its just me and my husband. but for a family of, say 4, its expensive. bleachers at 38 a person and parking, thats 175 dollars. and thats not including drinks,food,etc. so its not exactly that easy to say hey lets go to a sox game, especially not multiple times a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:45 AM) i dont think its all just about success. its kind of..wrong , i guess, that the sox say how more fans need to go or go when the team wins but its not exactly the cheapest thing to go to. i went to 6 games last year but its just me and my husband. but for a family of, say 4, its expensive. bleachers at 38 a person and parking, thats 175 dollars. and thats not including drinks,food,etc. so its not exactly that easy to say hey lets go to a sox game, especially not multiple times a year. There are really only 3 ways to have really good attendance. Win, build a new stadium, be owned by a large Chicago media corporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I think the economy has had a bigger impact on attendance the last few years than their record in a particular month or homestand/road-trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 11:08 AM) I think the economy has had a bigger impact on attendance the last few years than their record in a particular month or homestand/road-trip. I'm sure that's part of it. Even though the Cubs (being the anomaly they are) have topped 3 million the past 6 years. I'm just saying that most fans probably put more weight on the team record rather than the payroll when deciding whether or not to go to a game. I'm just guessing that more people would want to see a team that's 10 games over .500 and in first place that only spent 90 million over a team that's in last place and spent 150 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 01:44 PM) If fans don't show up in April and May, there won't be anything left to add on with. Hence the early presale for April/May games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) You got that right. I went to two games last year. It's a lot different when you're living on your own as compared to living with your parents. I just don't have the cash. And I work close to 40 hours a week. Me neither. There is no way I can just throw multiple games at $45 a pop on my CC, I want to, but I cant. Especailly when you consider that of course we would buy like 2-4 tickets, front the money, and then try and fill em in with friends/family prior to the game. No way, do 2 games on that and u have placed $320 on your credit card. Just cant do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:45 AM) i dont think its all just about success. its kind of..wrong , i guess, that the sox say how more fans need to go or go when the team wins but its not exactly the cheapest thing to go to. i went to 6 games last year but its just me and my husband. but for a family of, say 4, its expensive. bleachers at 38 a person and parking, thats 175 dollars. and thats not including drinks,food,etc. so its not exactly that easy to say hey lets go to a sox game, especially not multiple times a year. Im just like everyone else, If I could be at every single game I would I enjoy the environment that much over watching on TV. But the truth is unless I get a half price ticket or have a friend with "extras" for free I cant really go. Everytime I go, I already have to make sure I can park for "free" in one my secret spots a few blocks from the park and always make sure that I eat before I go, or stop somewhere and eat for $5 on the way because I cant afford $20 for a dog/pretzel/beer combo. Having mad student loans and not good income is not a good living combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm in Indy so it's a haul for us but I manage to get to about 4-8 games per season and we drive up and back in the same day. Between gas/tickets/parking/food and anything else it's dam expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 11:51 AM) Im just like everyone else, If I could be at every single game I would I enjoy the environment that much over watching on TV. But the truth is unless I get a half price ticket or have a friend with "extras" for free I cant really go. Everytime I go, I already have to make sure I can park for "free" in one my secret spots a few blocks from the park and always make sure that I eat before I go, or stop somewhere and eat for $5 on the way because I cant afford $20 for a dog/pretzel/beer combo. Having mad student loans and not good income is not a good living combination. and thats kind of my point. its not like we dont go because we dont want to or because they suck, its just not that cheap. just because wrigley gets all the partying people that love wasting their money doesnt mean we do. they think were like them, that they get 3mil + that the sox should too. really different fan bases if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) Hence the early presale for April/May games. well if you want to go to the games cheap, thats when to go i guess. i wanted to see peavy pitch so i went the second game of the season last year(since i knew he was pitching that day) and i got second row on the third base line ,right next to the tarp, they were 19 dollars a piece for 2 tickets, cant beat that. people just dont really go because its cold and school i guess Edited January 24, 2011 by Melissa1334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I can honestly say that I've bought in on this "All In" campaign. My future wife and I skipped Christmas presents for each other this year and we purchased the weekday 27-game ticket package, shortly after the Dunn/PK/AJ signings. Maybe our two seats in section 531 will make a difference in a mid-season move.. We've made it to 10-12 games a year over the past 3 seasons It's really become how we spend our summers, so we decided to make it official with the season ticket package and we paid the parking up front at the discounted rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) well if you want to go to the games cheap, thats when to go i guess. i wanted to see peavy pitch so i went the second game of the season last year(since i knew he was pitching that day) and i got second row on the third base line ,right next to the tarp, they were 19 dollars a piece for 2 tickets, cant beat that. people just dont really go because its cold and school i guess If they went all in and made some sort of move that really puts buts in the seats along with it I think that would have been a slam dunk for attendance. So they did the player and payroll commitment part, but why not some promotions for us, especially for Weekday and April/May games. Maybe some Upper Deck buy one get one free on all April/May tue/wed games. How about buy one April game get another at 1/2 price. How about a turn back the clock prices day on some random wed afternoon game in April. We already know ur heart makes u want to be there, but how about something for the brain side of the equation as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) I can honestly say that I've bought in on this "All In" campaign. My future wife and I skipped Christmas presents for each other this year and we purchased the weekday 27-game ticket package, shortly after the Dunn/PK/AJ signings. Maybe our two seats in section 531 will make a difference in a mid-season move.. We've made it to 10-12 games a year over the past 3 seasons It's really become how we spend our summers, so we decided to make it official with the season ticket package and we paid the parking up front at the discounted rate. Good for you. The weekday plan has some nice opponents this year. And any woman that will forgo Christmas gifts to land Sox tickets is a keeper. Edited January 25, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:59 AM) Good for you. The weekday plan has some nice opponents this year. And any woman that will forgo Christmas gifts to land Sox tickets is a keeper. We figure we'll sell both Cubs games and atleast one of the two Yankees games to fund some weekend games with friends or our playoff deposit. I'm looking forward to seeing teams like the Dodgers and Nationals, and of course the home opener against the Rays. I'm just hoping we can make it a yearly deal, I have a feeling I'll have an ever growing amount of convincing to do to pull it off again.. But Christmas presents are such a hassle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) I can honestly say that I've bought in on this "All In" campaign. My future wife and I skipped Christmas presents for each other this year and we purchased the weekday 27-game ticket package, shortly after the Dunn/PK/AJ signings. Maybe our two seats in section 531 will make a difference in a mid-season move.. We've made it to 10-12 games a year over the past 3 seasons It's really become how we spend our summers, so we decided to make it official with the season ticket package and we paid the parking up front at the discounted rate. You got yourself a great fiancee my man. Edited January 25, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 07:17 AM) We figure we'll sell both Cubs games and atleast one of the two Yankees games to fund some weekend games with friends or our playoff deposit. I'm looking forward to seeing teams like the Dodgers and Nationals, and of course the home opener against the Rays. I'm just hoping we can make it a yearly deal, I have a feeling I'll have an ever growing amount of convincing to do to pull it off again.. But Christmas presents are such a hassle! Thats why you marry a Jewish girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 QUOTE (joeynach @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Thats why you marry a Jewish girl! There's a lot more effort that would go into that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realfan Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Anyone have any idea as to what attendance level would be required to "justify" a $125MM payroll in the eyes of ownership? 2.5MM? 2.75MM? What is the all time high for Sox attendance? I'd have to guess that 2006 would be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 QUOTE (Realfan @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 01:42 PM) Anyone have any idea as to what attendance level would be required to "justify" a $125MM payroll in the eyes of ownership? 2.5MM? 2.75MM? What is the all time high for Sox attendance? I'd have to guess that 2006 would be it. If you go by the Forbes numbers...last year, $120 million or so was break-even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) If you go by the Forbes numbers...last year, $120 million or so was break-even. Well it depends on what the tickets cost. You know you have 81 home games, at a minumum, if they don't make the playoffs. You have to make a few assumptions about attendance and ticket prices. Stadium Capacity around 40K Assume 20K seats in lower Assume 3K seats in Club level Assume 17K seats in UD Assume lower seats avg cost is $50 Assume club seats avg cost is $58 Assume upper level avg cost is $23 25K Attendance = 18K Lower, 2K Club, 5K Upper 30K Attendance = 20K Lower, 3K Club, 7K Upper 35K Attendance = 20K Lower, 3K Club, 12K Upper 40K Attendance = 20K Lower, 3K Club, 17K Upper If Avg attendance is 25K: {(50*18000)+(58*2000)+(23*5000)}*81 = $91,611,000 If Avg attendance is 30K: {(50*20000)+(58*3000)+(23*7000)}*81 = $108,135,000 If Avg attendance is 35K: {(50*20000)+(58*3000)+(23*12000)}*81 = $117,450,000 If Avg attendance is 35K: {(50*20000)+(58*3000)+(23*17000)}*81 = $126,765,000 So there you have a simple revenue projection from ticket sales only. Keep in mind its all relative to the actual box office receipts, prime/premier games, breakdown of tickets in LD vs UD, etc. But I do think this is a good starts. It tells me that the sox will need to probably average 30K fans at a minimum to get in the break even conversation. Factor the $108M in revenue with parking, concessions, souvenirs, and you are probably coming in around $120-$125M. If this team can really put a playoff run together there is no doubt in my mind that average attendance can eclipse the 30K mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 You're missing the other big money streams...and there's a lot of them at this point. Revenue Sharing dollars (i.e. DirecTV extra innings, merch sales) totaled over $13 million a team last year, and has been skyrocketing. Another big one is the TV and radio contracts...which by some reports run upwards of $400k a game, to the point that they'd total >$50 million a year. Then you have the advertising contracts...which are worth on the order of $5 million a year just for the naming rights, plus all the ads around the facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Of course, to state the obvious, it is important to remember that this is revenue. The payroll is only one element of the cost side of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 06:28 PM) Of course, to state the obvious, it is important to remember that this is revenue. The payroll is only one element of the cost side of the equation. Wouldn't want to forget the thousands of White Sox employees would we? I wonder what TOTAL payroll is each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) Wouldn't want to forget the thousands of White Sox employees would we? I wonder what TOTAL payroll is each year. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but in past discussions of ticket sales, some people have tended to think of revenue as profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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