Bears versus Packers game thread

[StrangeSox]

I don't believe this theory, but if you wanted to cover for your star playing "quitting" in a game, saying he has an MCL sprain that requires extensive rest but no surgery would be the perfect cover-up. However, please read my first 5 words of this post before jumping on this.

 

Right, but if someone wants to make that argument, they're into unfalsifiable conspiracy theory territory. Nothing can ever refute their position because it all becomes a part of the cover up.

[fathom]

You're telling me they couldn't have used a 3 step drop game plan that they used against Dallas in order to keep their best arm out on the field?

 

Wasn't his first throw of the 2nd half on a play that required a 7 step drop or a partial roll-out? I just remember the throw looking really bad (that was until Collins came in and looked like a Make-a-Wish winner).

[iamshack]

So you think he was hurt and believe it was a valid reason to sit out? But just question how much he was helping Hanie?

 

Is that kind of your basis Shack? Just want to make sure I follow. I can understand the above. I don't know if he was there for Hanie 100% of the time.

I think he was legitimately injured. I think Jay has a tendency to pout and feel sorry for himself when things aren't going his way. I think he tends to lose focus, he tends to become mentally weak.

 

I think when he was struggling, and he was injured, he may not have communicated to the coaching and training staff very well about the injury. I think he was probably feeling sorry for himself and said the knee hurt and that he wasn't sure he could continue. He tried in the second half, in the first series, and it didn't work, and so he just said the hell with it.

 

I think had he been playing well, had the game been going better, he would have found the strength and the ability to continue to play. I think he would have at least tried to make it work more.

 

After he came out of the game I think he continued feeling sorry for himself. I don't think he intentionally tried not to help Hanie or Collins. I think he just didn't worry about anyone other than himself at the time. I think when Hanie approached him for help, he was happy to give it to him. I just think most of the rest of the time he was too upset with his own plight to really think about what he should have been doing.

 

After the game the players defended him, and I don't know why anyone would expect anything different. As far as they knew, the guy was injured. No one really even knew the extent of the injury then.

 

Sunday night and Monday morning, I feel pretty confident that the Bears' brass coordinated with one another to determine the best way to handle the situation with the press. I think it was decided that the injury would be reported, that the coaching staff would shoulder as much of the blame as possible, and that all parts of the organization would fire back and defend their franchise quarterback. It was absolutely critical that Jay be painted in the best light possible if he would have any future in Chicago, because if it was acknowledged that he came out of the NFC Championship game, against the Packers, for any reason than that he could no longer play, he would have an extremely difficult time here.

 

I believe the reporters are going with what the organization is saying, and trying to shed light on when Jay did talk to Hanie or others. I'm sure they feel sympathy for him.

[Balta1701]

Sunday night and Monday morning, I feel pretty confident that the Bears' brass coordinated with one another to determine the best way to handle the situation with the press.

Then they did a horrifically bad job of planning...not saying "Grade 2" sprain or "Partial tear" when they came out with their press conference on the MRI results. Horrendous.

[fathom]

Another thought I had is that Cutler knows what play he got injured on, as do the Bears, but they don't want to state what play it was so as not to get the offensive lineman crucified in Chicago for that particular play.

[Chisoxfn]

I think he was legitimately injured. I think Jay has a tendency to pout and feel sorry for himself when things aren't going his way. I think he tends to lose focus, he tends to become mentally weak.

 

I think when he was struggling, and he was injured, he may not have communicated to the coaching and training staff very well about the injury. I think he was probably feeling sorry for himself and said the knee hurt and that he wasn't sure he could continue. He tried in the second half, in the first series, and it didn't work, and so he just said the hell with it.

 

I think had he been playing well, had the game been going better, he would have found the strength and the ability to continue to play. I think he would have at least tried to make it work more.

 

After he came out of the game I think he continued feeling sorry for himself. I don't think he intentionally tried not to help Hanie or Collins. I think he just didn't worry about anyone other than himself at the time. I think when Hanie approached him for help, he was happy to give it to him. I just think most of the rest of the time he was too upset with his own plight to really think about what he should have been doing.

 

After the game the players defended him, and I don't know why anyone would expect anything different. As far as they knew, the guy was injured. No one really even knew the extent of the injury then.

 

Sunday night and Monday morning, I feel pretty confident that the Bears' brass coordinated with one another to determine the best way to handle the situation with the press. I think it was decided that the injury would be reported, that the coaching staff would shoulder as much of the blame as possible, and that all parts of the organization would fire back and defend their franchise quarterback. It was absolutely critical that Jay be painted in the best light possible if he would have any future in Chicago, because if it was acknowledged that he came out of the NFC Championship game, against the Packers, for any reason than that he could no longer play, he would have an extremely difficult time here.

 

I believe the reporters are going with what the organization is saying, and trying to shed light on when Jay did talk to Hanie or others. I'm sure they feel sympathy for him.

I can't agree with that, but I also won't go any farther to try and convince you one way or another. You have your opinion, I have my opinion and we are each entitled to em

 

Fun debate though, haha. For my own sanity, I'm going to hope I'm right since it sheds far better light on our so called franchise QB

[Chi Town Sox]

My final thoughts on this whole fiasco and for everyone that thinks Cutler is being a P**sy, it is pretty clear that many have stated that Tom Brady left the 2001 AFC championship game with the SAME INJURY. At the time, he was not doubted (well maybe because at the time he was a nobody still....kinda).

 

If Jay Cutler was truthfully quitting on his team, we would have heard a teammate call him out for quitting. We have not heard that thus far. So until I see a tweet or a comment in the media about him quitting, whoever says that Cutler quit should do themselves a favor and shove it.

[LittleHurt05]

Another thought I had is that Cutler knows what play he got injured on, as do the Bears, but they don't want to state what play it was so as not to get the offensive lineman crucified in Chicago for that particular play.

 

Unless it was Olin Kreutz getting beat, I think the linemen have been crucified enough this year, that one play wouldnt change anything.

[BigSqwert]

...whoever says that Cutler quit should do themselves a favor and shove it.

Thanks for elevating the level of discourse.

[IlliniKrush]

After the game the players defended him, and I don't know why anyone would expect anything different. As far as they knew, the guy was injured. No one really even knew the extent of the injury then.

 

Sunday night and Monday morning, I feel pretty confident that the Bears' brass coordinated with one another to determine the best way to handle the situation with the press. I think it was decided that the injury would be reported, that the coaching staff would shoulder as much of the blame as possible, and that all parts of the organization would fire back and defend their franchise quarterback. It was absolutely critical that Jay be painted in the best light possible if he would have any future in Chicago, because if it was acknowledged that he came out of the NFC Championship game, against the Packers, for any reason than that he could no longer play, he would have an extremely difficult time here.

 

I believe the reporters are going with what the organization is saying, and trying to shed light on when Jay did talk to Hanie or others. I'm sure they feel sympathy for him.

Players not knowing the extent of the injury gave them evey opportunity to question his reason for coming out of the game.

 

I think the Bears actually did a terrible job getting on the same page and making this look as well as they could, both in-game and post-game.

 

The reporters have no reason to go with what the organization is saying, and have been on the air 5 minutes after the game ended, up until now and nothing's changed.

Edited January 25, 2011 by IlliniKrush

[Chisoxfn]

Tom Brady, 2001 AFC Championship Game, pulled himself with a Grade 1 MCL sprain. Did not return.

[Chisoxfn]

Unless it was Olin Kreutz getting beat, I think the linemen have been crucified enough this year, that one play wouldnt change anything.

Cutler has not crucified anyone on the offense though. Not in his post game speaches. He's actually been tremendous at not throwing his teammates under the bus (with the exception of his antics and emotions during the game).

[IlliniKrush]

Tom Brady, 2001 AFC Championship Game, pulled himself with a Grade 1 MCL sprain. Did not return.

If only we had Twitter and the even more intense coverage back then...?

[LittleHurt05]

Cutler has not crucified anyone on the offense though. Not in his post game speaches. He's actually been tremendous at not throwing his teammates under the bus (with the exception of his antics and emotions during the game).

 

Of course he hasn't, I was referring to the media & public.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If only we had Twitter and the even more intense coverage back then...?

 

Doesn't hurt that the Patriots won that game. And Brady was still a relative unknown at that point. You pro-Cutler guys are throwing out guys like Benson and Brady and looking at it strictly through a vacuum.

[Balta1701]

Doesn't hurt that the Patriots won that game. And Brady was still a relative unknown at that point. You pro-Cutler guys are throwing out guys like Benson and Brady and looking at it strictly through a vacuum.

Tom Brady was a miracle worker at that point. He'd taken over for Drew Bledsoe and was marching his team on into the playoffs when no one thought he had anything. Tom Brady was already one of the NFL's biggest stories at that point.

[LittleHurt05]

Doesn't hurt that the Patriots won that game. And Brady was still a relative unknown at that point. You pro-Cutler guys are throwing out guys like Benson and Brady and looking at it strictly through a vacuum.

 

He was the starting QB on a team playing for a spot in the Super Bowl. I don't see what the difference is.

[iamshack]

Tom Brady was a miracle worker at that point. He'd taken over for Drew Bledsoe and was marching his team on into the playoffs when no one thought he had anything. Tom Brady was already one of the NFL's biggest stories at that point.

And that's Tom Brady. And I said yesterday that Peyton Manning has the same s***ty look on his face as Jay when things aren't going well. He also likes to question his team's coaching decisions.

 

My argument has never been that Jay Cutler is a wuss. My argument has been that Jay Cutler has a serious attitude problem, and that I wouldn't put it past him to bow out of that game because he was pouting and feeling sorry for himself.

 

Do I think Jay Cutler is tougher than Tom Brady? Yes. He's also not the quarterback that Tom Brady is. He's not the quarterback that Peyton Manning is. He's not the quarterback that Drew Brees is. He's not the quarterback that Phillip Rivers is.

 

Each of these guys are their own men, and each brings certain things to the table. One of Jay's positives has been that he takes a beating and keeps on getting up. But on Sunday, I think he let his attitude get the best of him, and it's pretty clear that a lot of other people came to the same conclusion.

 

I was disappointed in him on Sunday.

[iamshack]

I know you've argued your position, I just haven't seen any support for it.

 

To have a good theory, your idea needs to be consistent with what reliable evidence is known, and it needs to explain that evidence. You also need to have good reason for dismissing any evidence that goes against your idea. All you've given so far is personal incredulity, and that's not really support for an argument.

Honestly SS, we've given all kinds of evidence. You've just chosen to ignore every piece that doesn't jive with your theory. Give me a break, we're both explaining away the points that contradict our position, and relying on the ones that back it up.

 

You are also unwilling to admit that the source of all your news is basically coming from the organization that has everything to lose if anything to the contrary is being reported.

 

 

[ptatc]

And yet...a few years later, he finally went under Dr. James Andrews's knife, and basically wound up having a complete shoulder reconstruction.

 

to be fair Prior did not have a shoulder reconstruction. He had a procedure to tighten it up and clean up a few things.

 

However the point is valid.

 

[iamshack]

to be fair Prior did not have a shoulder reconstruction. He had a procedure to tighten it up and clean up a few things.

 

However the point is valid.

Would the training staff have had braces on hand to try and brace Cutler's knee so he could try and gain some stability with it? I know they would not have had a fitted brace necessarily, but is that the sort of thing the medical team would have on hand?

 

Does it seem odd to you that they didn't have him in some kind of brace while he was on the sidelines?

[fathom]

to be fair Prior did not have a shoulder reconstruction. He had a procedure to tighten it up and clean up a few things.

 

However the point is valid.

 

I thought he had surgery for loose shoulder capsules, which basically any pitcher will get over time.

[HeGone33]

GTL Baby!!!!

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

If I was a Bears fan I would be more concerned about Cutler's ability as a QB and ability to win the big game in this league rather than his attitude, ability to play through an injury, etc. Just think about how much the bears gave up for a "franchise" QB (in terms of draft picks, personnel, and cash) and you would have thought they traded for Drew Brees or Tom Brady not Jay Cutler who has proven to be an above average QB in this league but not one to take you over the top. That's what I would be upset about.

[DrunkBomber]

If I was a Bears fan I would be more concerned about Cutler's ability as a QB and ability to win the big game in this league rather than his attitude, ability to play through an injury, etc. Just think about how much the bears gave up for a "franchise" QB (in terms of draft picks, personnel, and cash) and you would have thought they traded for Drew Brees or Tom Brady not Jay Cutler who has proven to be an above average QB in this league but not one to take you over the top. That's what I would be upset about.

He was 25 and a pro bowler when they traded for him so what are you talking about?