Bears versus Packers game thread

[Y2HH]

Were you at the game watching him on the sidelines the entire time? I heard reporters on the sideline report this morning that they saw him working with Hanie on several occasions.

 

I was at the game, I'm related to everyone on the Bears. So yes. I was there. And he didn't help.

[BigSqwert]

I saw Any Given Sunday, and Willie Beamen helped Cap Rooney more in that one half of football than Cutler helped backups his entire career. Willie had the big headset on, was doing hand signals, and reviewing snapshots with Dennis Quaid CONSTANTLY, in practically every camera shot...Cutler did none of this! :D

 

[Rowand44]

There was definitely one shot of Hanie sitting next to Cutler with a book of photos in Hanie's hands.

Yes. Thank you.

[StrangeSox]

I still dont know how I feel about all of it and I am mostly playing devils advocate, but the people calling the anyone who questions Cutlers toughness an idiot or meatball are ridiculous. Youre reaching for excuses just as much as the other side is and are basically proclaiming yourselves right with nothing to back it up.

 

Nothing to back it up?

 

Statements from the coaches saying it was their and the medical staff's decisions. A positive MRI. Cutler's history, or lack thereof, of being soft or weak.

 

What is there to back up questioning his toughness?

"Oh, he didn't look injured on the sidelines!"

[Milkman delivers]

A lot of people had emotional reactions based on the situation. Id even venture to say a good number of them were drunk. That doesnt change anything though. Just because a few people are mad for the wrong reasons or jumped the gun with being upset before getting the results doesnt discredit the people who were willing to wait to hear what the injury was to gather an opinion.

 

As I said before, the results of the MRI also derailed a lot of what the people who were supporting Cutler were preaching. Neither side is right, I just find the people who think they are taking some moral high road and calling everyone names because they are questioning what happened laughable.

 

I still dont know how I feel about all of it and I am mostly playing devils advocate, but the people calling the anyone who questions Cutlers toughness an idiot or meatball are ridiculous. Youre reaching for excuses just as much as the other side is and are basically proclaiming yourselves right with nothing to back it up.

 

You just earned yourself a nomination for poster of the year.

[iamshack]

Nothing to back it up?

 

Statements from the coaches saying it was their and the medical staff's decisions. A positive MRI. Cutler's history, or lack thereof, of being soft or weak.

 

What is there to back up questioning his toughness?

"Oh, he didn't look injured on the sidelines!"

How many times do we have to make the distinction that it is his attitude coupled with the injury that may have caused him to back out of the game?

[Y2HH]

 

People are so serious. ;D

[StrangeSox]

How many times do we have to make the distinction that it is his attitude coupled with the injury that may have caused him to back out of the game?

 

Hi, you're assuming your conclusion that Jay took himself out or expressed a desire to be pulled.

[DrunkBomber]

Nothing to back it up?

 

Statements from the coaches saying it was their and the medical staff's decisions. A positive MRI. Cutler's history, or lack thereof, of being soft or weak.

 

What is there to back up questioning his toughness?

"Oh, he didn't look injured on the sidelines!"

Youre basically exactly what Im talking about. Are you capable of taking part in a constructive conversation? Please just ignore my posts and let me finishing having a discussion with the other people.

[whitesoxfan101]

Nothing to back it up?

 

Statements from the coaches saying it was their and the medical staff's decisions. A positive MRI. Cutler's history, or lack thereof, of being soft or weak.

 

What is there to back up questioning his toughness?

"Oh, he didn't look injured on the sidelines!"

 

The Bears have to defend him, so take their statements with a grain of salt. Also, the MRI doesn't sound too good for the Cutler couldn't have kept playing crowd. However, Cutler's history of toughness is definitely there though, and I think it's the one thing that is keeping a lot of people like me relatively neutral on the issue, but still questioning what happened.

[StrangeSox]

Youre basically exactly what Im talking about. Are you capable of taking part in a constructive conversation? Please just ignore my posts and let me finishing having a discussion with the other people.

 

I'm sorry, I just can't agree at all that there's nothing to back up my position that Jay's getting a hugely unreasonable amount of s*** in this situation.

[iamshack]

Hi, you're assuming your conclusion that Jay took himself out or expressed a desire to be pulled.

Well do you agree that there had to be some communication going on between Jay and the training and coaching staffs for the decision to be made? Do you think they just determined by themselves that Jay must have been injured because his performance was so poor, and therefore, he had a sprained MCL?

 

I'm pretty certain that they asked him.

 

I'm also hypothesizing that had the game been going better, he would not have been sitting on the sidelines for the second half, or he would have gotten some kind of treatment to allow him to continue. Obviously just my hypothesis, but I think it's a pretty fair conclusion to make considering what we have seen from him this year when the going got tough.

 

Call me a meatball or whatever you guys want, but I think I have a pretty solid history here of not jumping to ridiculous conclusions in the moment or in the immediate aftermath.

Edited January 24, 2011 by iamshack

[StrangeSox]

The Bears have to defend him, so take their statements with a grain of salt. Also, the MRI doesn't sound too good for the Cutler couldn't have kept playing crowd. However, Cutler's history of toughness is definitely there though, and I think it's the one thing that is keeping a lot of people like me relatively neutral on the issue, but still questioning what happened.

 

Why doesn't the MRI sound good for the "yeah, he really was injured" group? It confirms that he was injured. We don't know the degree yet.

[Y2HH]

Why doesn't the MRI sound good for the "yeah, he really was injured" group? It confirms that he was injured. We don't know the degree yet.

 

Because they were claiming it was a full tear, and it was a partial tear.

 

Many others players have played through partial tears in far less important games.

[whitesoxfan101]

Why doesn't the MRI sound good for the "yeah, he really was injured" group? It confirms that he was injured. We don't know the degree yet.

 

I don't think anybody is arguing against the idea he was injured. Even the players ripping on him knew something was wrong. And the MRI doesn't sound good for that crowd because it certainly doesn't sound like it was a full tear.

Edited January 24, 2011 by whitesoxfan101

[bmags]

I think people are at the point where nothing will change their minds. I hated cutler yesterday and did think that he quit. But then I got sober.

 

Anyway, I think that jay would've played with that tear two weeks later, or 1 week later, but injuries are a bit more shocking and distracting right when they happen.

[fathom]

Maybe Lovie took Ozzie's philosophy of asking Cutler (or his starting pitcher) if they think they can stay in the game, and if Cutler wasn't definitive in his answer, then Lovie went with Collins?

[knightni]

I shut the game off when Collins came in. But then came back when Hanie came in.

 

Collins should have never been on the roster - let alone the back up.

[daa84]

Because they were claiming it was a full tear, and it was a partial tear.

 

Many others players have played through partial tears in far less important games.

its irrelevant because lovie was the one who made the decision to pull cutler, unless you believe that lovie is covering for jay. Not to mention, once the decision to use hanie instead of collins was made, by rule cutler couldn't return, even if he felt ok to come back in. Cutler said he wanted to go. what more do we need? I guess are we supposed to see a shot of him screaming at Lovie to get put back in?

[DrunkBomber]

I'm sorry, I just can't agree at all that there's nothing to back up my position that Jay's getting a hugely unreasonable amount of s*** in this situation.

See here is what youre doing wrong. You are arguing with me like I personally am one of the people who called in the score and said Jay had a sprained vagina. Youre trying to discredit anything I said because "Jays getting a hugely unreasonable amount of s***."

 

Now, am I giving Jay a hugely unreasonable amount of s***? No, Im looking at it objectively and discussing opinions with other fans. You on the other hand are acting like the people giving Jay a hugely unreasonable amount of s***, youre just on the other side.

Edited January 24, 2011 by DrunkBomber

[StrangeSox]

Well do you agree that there had to be some communication going on between Jay and the training and coaching staffs for the decision to be made? Do you think they just determined by themselves that Jay must have been injured because his performance was so poor, and therefore, he had a sprained MCL?

 

I'm pretty certain that they asked him.

 

But he does have a sprained MCL. So if they made that conclusion, they were right.

 

I'm also hypothesizing that had the game been going better, he would not have been sitting on the sidelines for the second half, or not gotten some kind of treatment to allow him to continue. Obviously just my hypothesis, but I think it's a pretty fair conclusion to make considering what we have seen from him this year when the going got tough.

 

Call me a meatball or whatever you guys want, but I think I have a pretty solid history here of not jumping to ridiculous conclusions in the moment or in the immediate aftermath.

 

We've seen Jay struggle and play poorly when he's getting knocked around. He was having a bad game yesterday, no doubt. But we haven't seen him up and quit on a team.

 

Maybe if he was still getting the job done with the injury they'd have kept him in. But he wasn't. He was only going to hurt himself and hurt the team.

 

That still doesn't justify the reaction to this, imo. Calling him a p****, weak, questioning his toughness, etc. None of that fits with the situation--he was playing poorly, sprained his MCL, continued to play just as bad if not worse and was pulled in the 2nd half by the coaching/medical staff. What about that brings up questions about his toughness?

[StrangeSox]

See here is what youre doing wrong. You are arguing with me like I personally am one of the people who called in the score and said Jay had a sprained vagina. Youre trying to discredit anything I said because "Jays getting a hugely unreasonable amount of s***."

 

Now, am I giving Jay a hugely unreasonable amount of s***? No, Im looking at it objectively and discussing opinions with other fans. You on the other hand are acting like the people giving Jay a hugely unreasonable amount of s***, youre just on the other side.

 

I had a contention with your statement that there's nothing to back up the counter-reaction to the initial meatball sprained vagina reaction, that's all.

[iamshack]

But he does have a sprained MCL. So if they made that conclusion, they were right.

 

 

 

We've seen Jay struggle and play poorly when he's getting knocked around. He was having a bad game yesterday, no doubt. But we haven't seen him up and quit on a team.

 

Maybe if he was still getting the job done with the injury they'd have kept him in. But he wasn't. He was only going to hurt himself and hurt the team.

 

That still doesn't justify the reaction to this, imo. Calling him a p****, weak, questioning his toughness, etc. None of that fits with the situation--he was playing poorly, sprained his MCL, continued to play just as bad if not worse and was pulled in the 2nd half by the coaching/medical staff. What about that brings up questions about his toughness?

Mental toughness. The inability to deal with adversity in the correct manner. Moping. Sulking. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

[fathom]

That still doesn't justify the reaction to this, imo. Calling him a p****, weak, questioning his toughness, etc. None of that fits with the situation--he was playing poorly, sprained his MCL, continued to play just as bad if not worse and was pulled in the 2nd half by the coaching/medical staff. What about that brings up questions about his toughness?

 

If it was any other sport, you'd be correct. Right or wrong, the NFL has a long history of players dealing with extreme pain to perform in big games (Owens playing with a broken bone being the most impressive, IMO). As someone said earlier, it would be interesting to know if they tried shooting him up with painkillers and using a brace.

[Y2HH]

its irrelevant because lovie was the one who made the decision to pull cutler, unless you believe that lovie is covering for jay. Not to mention, once the decision to use hanie instead of collins was made, by rule cutler couldn't return, even if he felt ok to come back in. Cutler said he wanted to go. what more do we need? I guess are we supposed to see a shot of him screaming at Lovie to get put back in?

 

My honest opinion is that Lovie threw Jay under the bus with his typical and always retarded vagueness when it comes to telling people nothing while speaking for 20 minutes at a time. Lovie should have properly reported Jay as OUT, not questionable, which is what he did. I believe Lovie in particular, who has a HISTORY of this sort of thing, reported he was questionable so the Packers would have to "think" that Cutler could come back into the game at any time...because in Lovies mind, this gives his team an edge.

 

A guys arm can get ripped off, and Lovie will say in the press conference that as far as he knows, that guy will be playing this weekend, and their medical staff will have to evaluate reattaching the missing limb.

 

That's my honest opinion of what happened. Lovie purposefully MISrepresented the injury yesterday during the game for some sort of psychological edge, and the report that came across as "questionable", which means 50% chance of returning, planted the seeds of doubt in the fans minds...and this is the backlash of him doing so.