Bears versus Packers game thread

[iamshack]

There are very different. The one thing no one knows is how unstable the knee was. A second degree sprain is a medical diagnosis but doesn't tell you how unstable it was. If every time Cutler tried to stand on it it collapsed, there is no way he could play. He would not be able to move especially side to side. This is where the medical expertise come into play. The second degree sprain will be different from person to person and the stability will return in 3-8 weeks depending on the instability.

The medical staff and the coaching staff evaluated him and determined that regardless of how tough he is or isn't, the knee will not function properly to do the job. So they sat him. This is all assuming the coaches are telling the truth.

 

It is possible to have this injury and it get worse over a few plays. Just picture when you roll your ankle. That is a sprain. Sometimes you can walk it off, other times it seems to get worse and you need to stop. They had half time to evaluate it which means the injury was somewhere in the middle where they let him try it at the beginning of the second half. He was riding the bike on the sideline to try to keep it loose. However it was severe enough that they didn't like the way he moved with it and decided to bench him.

All I have to say about this is, with how many precautions the league seems to take regarding injuries, especially to a prized quarterback, you think they would have had the knee immobilized or something while he was on the sidelines. Not walking around with no crutches, no ice, not sitting on the bench, but actually standing up and walking around.

[StrangeSox]

Youre better off ignoring him. He seems like basically the only one on either side here not willing to discuss this reasonably.

 

All I'm doing is asking for a reason to believe Cutler took himself out or caused himself to be taken out because of mental or physical weakness. All we've seen is that some other people played through a similar injury while some others didn't. We've got every reason to believe he was actually injured (because he was) and that the medical and coaching staff made the call.

[iamshack]

You should be able to differentiate the two things. Most people are piling on him because of how the perceive him, because he's not nice. If he was Tim Tebow, with the exact same injury, everyone would be OK with it and not question his toughness.

 

 

Oh really, it doesn't? It shows it's a damn significant injury.

 

 

Regardless, he came out of the game. That was his whole point.

 

***************

 

If you think he's not tough and that he just quit (based on the score or otherwise)...wow. Just wow.

Your outrage here is just ridiculous.

 

Give me a damned break. There are people that have played with this exact same injury. Enough with the "wow...Just wow." nonsense.

 

Defend the guy if you like all you want, it doesn't bother me. But to claim that this guy has some infallible history of being the extreme competitor is just so overblown. He is a mope, a dope, he has a reputation as such, and that's why everyone is questioning him. There is a reason this is happening, and it's not because everyone just wants to pick on Jay Cutler. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. The chickens came home to roost, and whether he could go or couldn't go, it's about time the guy changes his attitude and matures.

[StrangeSox]

All I have to say about this is, with how many precautions the league seems to take regarding injuries, especially to a prized quarterback, you think they would have had the knee immobilized or something while he was on the sidelines. Not walking around with no crutches, no ice, not sitting on the bench, but actually standing up and walking around.

 

But he's actually injured! We have a confirmed MRI showing partial tearing. Do you think they're running a whole smoke screen now, going so far as to fake medical reports?

[DrunkBomber]

 

Sure, they're using the stronger word now, as they should. It's to counter the meatheads who are still insisting Cutler took himself out of the game and to better-inform the many fans who don't know that a Grade II Sprain is a tear. I don't think it's common knowledge for anyone who didn't play sports or take some sort of athletic training or medical classes, so they need to reinforce the severity of the injury before their franchise QB has his reputation in Chicago irreparably damaged.

 

I was pointing to the confirmed diagnosis to reinforce the speculated diagnosis ptatc gave that he had a grade II sprain.

Out of curiosity why are you acting like you are winning some hypothetical argument with all of the "meatheads" around Chicago? Youre using facts that we went over hours ago about sprains being tears and the different degrees of the injury like you just blew anyone elses thoughts out of the water with this ground breaking information. Nobody thats questioning how bad the injury was is being unreasonable but youre talking to them like theyre stupid and just making yourself look like a 12 year old.

[IlliniKrush]

This guy has waited for this moment his entire life. He has lived and dreamed for this moment. He has had 5 pro seasons of bone crushing hits. He has had I think, 5 concussions, the last of which he continued to play anyway. He has never quit or taken himself out of any game in his life that we know of. But now in a game that can change his life. A game that every football player wants to be in. A historical game that is so big it will erase all his previous games..he decides to quit?? It isn't fathomable. This is what every player strives for and now that he's here you think he just decided to say aw f*** it...having a bad day, I'll sit. He didn't say aw f*** it in any meaningless game in the last 5 years, but now he decides to?? The arrogant QB who thinks he can come back from anything. The one who says...I'll show you I can fit that ball there. The one that doesn't need to worry about mechanics. He quit?? It's just ludicrous. It's not that I'm just disagreeing with quitter/not tough crowd, I just can't make any sense of it whatsoever.

Well said. And if that's the case, he might as well retire.

[iamshack]

He was laughing at you saying a pro athlete "wants it more". I'd bet pretty much anything a QB in the biggest game of his life "wants it".

Oh alright. So now there is no degree of heart or desire or anything that comes into play in professional sports. Because they have all worked hard to get here. Whatever.

 

We see this in all walks of life. Some people are more competitive, more driven, more willing to deal with adversity.

 

I'd bet pretty much anything that if you asked guys around the league they would confirm this.

[StrangeSox]

Your outrage here is just ridiculous.

 

Give me a damned break. There are people that have played with this exact same injury. Enough with the "wow...Just wow." nonsense.

 

Defend the guy if you like all you want, it doesn't bother me. But to claim that this guy has some infallible history of being the extreme competitor is just so overblown. He is a mope, a dope, he has a reputation as such, and that's why everyone is questioning him. There is a reason this is happening, and it's not because everyone just wants to pick on Jay Cutler. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. The chickens came home to roost, and whether he could go or couldn't go, it's about time the guy changes his attitude and matures.

 

The guy is, by all accounts, a Grade A tool. That's what's driving the hate. He has no reputation as a quitter or of being soft.

[Balta1701]

All I have to say about this is, with how many precautions the league seems to take regarding injuries, especially to a prized quarterback, you think they would have had the knee immobilized or something while he was on the sidelines. Not walking around with no crutches, no ice, not sitting on the bench, but actually standing up and walking around.

Again, I can't tell if he had any sort of weak brace on underneath, but that's not what gets you. When I popped my knee, walking straight forwards over open terrain, standing straight up was easy. It's the climbing along the sides of the mountain when your knee has to support sideways forces that really gets you.

[iamshack]

But he's actually injured! We have a confirmed MRI showing partial tearing. Do you think they're running a whole smoke screen now, going so far as to fake medical reports?

Oh, you totally just won the debate!

 

He is injured!

 

No one has ever played injured before!

 

[DrunkBomber]

All I'm doing is asking for a reason to believe Cutler took himself out or caused himself to be taken out because of mental or physical weakness. All we've seen is that some other people played through a similar injury while some others didn't. We've got every reason to believe he was actually injured (because he was) and that the medical and coaching staff made the call.

Nobody knows the answer to this, and I hate to break this to you but that includes you. People are stating their opinions, which they have every right to.

[BigSqwert]

No one has ever played injured before!

 

Especially in the NFL.

 

I'd say at least 40% of the players on the field are playing with some sort of injury at any given time.

[StrangeSox]

Oh, you totally just won the debate!

 

He is injured!

 

No one has ever played injured before!

 

This post:

All I have to say about this is, with how many precautions the league seems to take regarding injuries, especially to a prized quarterback, you think they would have had the knee immobilized or something while he was on the sidelines. Not walking around with no crutches, no ice, not sitting on the bench, but actually standing up and walking around.

 

Made it seem like you were questioning if he was really injured or if his sprain was more than a little stretch or discomfort. It was.

[iamshack]

Again, I can't tell if he had any sort of weak brace on underneath, but that's not what gets you. When I popped my knee, walking straight forwards over open terrain, standing straight up was easy. It's the climbing along the sides of the mountain when your knee has to support sideways forces that really gets you.

But what is the downside of taking precautions, Balta?

 

What is the downside of giving him a set of crutches? Or putting a big fat old brace on the knee?

 

If I am to believe that this was such a horrendous injury, I would at least think there would be some sort of precautions taken with the franchise quarterback.

[StrangeSox]

Nobody knows the answer to this, and I hate to break this to you but that includes you. People are stating their opinions, which they have every right to.

 

But some opinions are supported by evidence and others aren't.

 

What reasoning, what evidence are you using to continue questioning why Cutler was pulled?

[iamshack]

This post:

 

 

Made it seem like you were questioning if he was really injured or if his sprain was more than a little stretch or discomfort. It was.

I am questioning the severity of the injury. I have mentioned several times I believe he was injured.

[IlliniKrush]

Your outrage here is just ridiculous.

 

Give me a damned break. There are people that have played with this exact same injury. Enough with the "wow...Just wow." nonsense.

 

Defend the guy if you like all you want, it doesn't bother me. But to claim that this guy has some infallible history of being the extreme competitor is just so overblown. He is a mope, a dope, he has a reputation as such, and that's why everyone is questioning him. There is a reason this is happening, and it's not because everyone just wants to pick on Jay Cutler. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. The chickens came home to roost, and whether he could go or couldn't go, it's about time the guy changes his attitude and matures.

Wow...again.

 

Again, you're having a very hard time separating your "he's not a rah-rah guy" from the actual facts. I mean, you do watch games and watch him get the s*** beat out of him every week, right? Huge difference between "mope" and being tough.

 

It's really stupid to pin it on him because he is "moping." Hell, ever think he's super disappointed that this is the game of his life, and he's too injured to play now?

 

BTW, walking around is a far cry from playing in the game. Cutler's an effective QB partly due to the fact that he makes plays with his feet to keep the play alive.

 

I wish the Bears would have ruled him "out" instead of questionable and put him on a stretcher, because everyone would have a different opinion. However, they did the "questionable" crap because they wanted the Packers to think there was a chance he was coming back into the game. That was also some of the reason for the walking, standing, anything-but-looking-dead look. This was according to Zach Zaidman today, who is on the sideline.

 

[southsider2k5]

I'm locking this before it goes too much further...

[Chisoxfn]

No. But what was the risk of further injury? I would need to know that first.

That is the problem. No one knows until an MRI can be done so unfortunately, in these instances the medical staff is going to go the route of get him out of there. If they did an evaluation and were able to determine the extent of the injury than they could have provided them with information, got a custom made brace, etc, and maybe he'd have been able to play in the superbowl.

 

Note: I've reopened the thread.

[nitetrain8601]

I think the problem, as we see by this thread, is his attitude. That's why people are questioning him. Had it been any other QB with a charming personality, there would be no complaints. But since it's Jay and we don't like the fact that he mopes, that's where all the calling out comes into play.

[chw42]

I think the problem, as we see by this thread, is his attitude. That's why people are questioning him. Had it been any other QB with a charming personality, there would be no complaints. But since it's Jay and we don't like the fact that he mopes, that's where all the calling out comes into play.

 

I agree. The media don't like him since he's not a good interview. Fans of other teams don't like him because he came off as a total douche in the Denver trade fiasco. A good amount of Bears fans don't like him because he's inconsistent and has a "jerk face".

 

There is no winning situation for Jay Cutler when he has a bad day. Everybody will bag on him.

Edited January 24, 2011 by chw42

[nitetrain8601]

BTW, it's not like Jay not playing cost them the game. Jay was doing pretty bad out there and Hanie looked much better and almost brought them back when they were left for dead.

 

Why can't it be, the Bears just got beat by a better team? The Packers were supposed to win the division and were a preseason Super Bowl favorite. The Bears never were supposed to belong and they overachieved considering their O-Line, all their new coaches, and lack of a jumping target.

[lostfan]

I maintain this was all Lovie and his penchant for hiding the truth about injuries to "fool" the opposing team. Now that they're getting serious backlash because of it, they're pretending they did nothing wrong, as they usually do. If Lovie had properly reported this injury from the start, instead of trying to play psychological warfare with the Packers (which never works anyway), none of this would be happening right now.

I really think the Bears handled this poorly. Had they just said during the game "we believe he's torn a ligament based on our evaluations and he can't come back in the game" everybody would've known what was going on. But they told the commentators that his return was "questionable" which sounds like he could've come back in if he wanted to. In reality he tried and could barely move.

[Rowand44]

Why can't it be, the Bears just got beat by a better team?

When it comes down to it, this is exactly what happened. People are just frustrated because as bad as the Bears offense played, the game was really there for the taking against a better team and they still managed to screw some things up to lose it.

[Chisoxfn]

If people want to complain, talk about the things Jay needs to improve upon, but also talk about how much of an impact his off the field persona has had on him. Fans and Players think he's an ass because he treats the media poorly. As a result, the media unjustifiably rips on him and this spiral continues.

 

The sad thing is he has improved with the media and this season he's gotten much much better. He had a good year, especially when you factor what he had to work with. Was it a probowl year, not quite, but still a solid season and I'm happy that he's made improvements.

 

He's my QB and I look forward to having him play in the same system in year 2 (hopefully behind an improved oline with a big physical playmaking wideout).

 

And from the games perspective:

The offense and defense played poorly in the 1st half. Jay missed a couple throws and the team struggled to find any rhythm (and had horrendous field position most of the half).